The Renamed Not Superfun Split Mike Richards Thread

[NRH]

The disappearing act that Carter/Richards do in the play-offs every single year would be more enough for me to have pause about paying them that much money.

[jammer2]

@NRH  Richards has 77 pts in 98 career playoff games, including double digit pts every year he played past the first 2 rounds. He's a solid playoff contributor.

[NRH]

@NRH  Richards has 77 pts in 98 career playoff games, including double digit pts every year he played past the first 2 rounds. He's a solid playoff contributor.

How many of those points are in the finals?

 

I'm not saying .79 PPG isn't a good contribution, but during his finals with us he scored 1 goal and another assist.

 

Including those finals and moving beyond it? 6 points in 12 games.

So yea, Both of them may be solid, but they often flame out in the finals and if it wasn't for the supporting cast, LAK wouldn't have been quite as dominate as they were that year.

[jammer2]

@NRH  I agree Mike seemed to fizzle out during the finals against the Hawks. Part of that was carrying the Flyers on his back through the early rounds. By the time he got to the finals, his body had nothing left to give. Flyers don't come close to the finals without Mike's early round heroics. He's much more effective on the Kings, where he is not counted on as heavily and sees less of the leagues elite checkers.

[doom88]

NRH, you are changing your argument as you go. It's okay to be wrong. Richards was a damn good playoff performer, beyond the stat sheet. Or do you mean to tell me guys like Lappy are crap because they don't put up a point per game?

[NRH]

NRH, you are changing your argument as you go. It's okay to be wrong. Richards was a damn good playoff performer, beyond the stat sheet. Or do you mean to tell me guys like Lappy are crap because they don't put up a point per game?

I don't see where my argument changed or where I brought up Lappy or what Lappy has to do with Mike Richards scoring 2 points against the Hawks in the finals, how you don't think that's a disappearing act is beyond me.

 

Its okay to be wrong and I suppose its also okay to be an Apologist for a man that just disappeared when his team needed him the most. Where as the older 2nd line player in Danny Briere scored 12 points in those 5 games or the Rookie Ville Leino scored 9 points .

 

You still have time to text all your friends and get them back in here to unify your opinions and refocus your assault on someone who challenged the popular opinion.

Edited August 30, 2013 by NRH

[jammer2]

@NRH  It's not like Richards choked in the finals.....he simply ran out of gas. He gave everything he could and his body basically could not respond in the finals. It was not for lack of effort, so I have no problem with the 2 point finals. Since Mike basically carried us in the previous rounds, somebody different had to step up to the plate, and obviously nobody could get that accomplished.

 

 Richards will be a stellar playoff performer till the day he retires, that's just how he approaches the game. I've also been saying that Mike plays bigger than his small frame, which will inevitably be his undoing. Since he knows no other way to play the game, eventually injuries will catch up to him. That's the biggest reason I was ok with him being dealt, that and the astounding return Homer was able to secure.

[LegionOfDoom]

To say Richards is not a great/good playoff contributor is short sighted. When watching him play in the playoffs, he played with heart, as a Philadelphian Core belieber, that's all we as Philadelphia ask for. Play with your heart, give it, give it, give it all you got.

 

Mike Richards gave us that. Unfortunately there were other outside circumstances that fogged up the Flyer career.

Carter I like, but he is not Bully Tuff mold. He has his limitations. A sparrow can never be a chicken hawk. Learn to associate your tools to the job at hand.

I do not like that Carter was stand offish when it came to hustleing for the puck. This is Hockey, not bocce'.

Unfortunately not all players drafted are going to play with intensity compareble to Lappy, and Talbot.

If Stamkos wasn't scoring as much as he has, I would see him as suspect as well. Different parts/pieces to a machine that's all. It would be nice to see an ear score a knockout punch in a bout but unfortunately the ear can only help listen to cue's in a bout and that's about all.

[doom88]

NRH, I don't gang up on people, I type what I think. You said they were crap in the playoffs, then changed in the face of facts. I mentioned Lappy as an example of a player who had immeasurable contributions, albeit doesn't light up a basic stat sheet.

If you feel people are teaming up against you, either you're wrong, or need more proof and courage. Crying about anyone needing reinforcements is bs and you know it.

If I recall correctly, Richards needed surgery immediately after the series, and was asked to be more of a checker than scorer.

If Carter doesn't miss that shot though...

[DaGreatGazoo]

You still have time to text all your friends and get them back in here to unify your opinions and refocus your assault on someone who challenged the popular opinion.

 

This statement is getting VERY TIRING and QUITE IRRITATING.  Everytime someone challenges you, you throw this out there.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone in stating it's getting old, but then again, if someone agrees with me, you'll say we are ganging up on you.  

[murraycraven]

It is not ganging up on someone of other people have a diferent opinion that happen to be the same...

[mojo1917]

Saying that Richards didn't show up for the final in '10 is too easy and doesn't give any credit to Jonathan Towes who ******* destroyed everyone he matched up with that year. 

 

Richards is on the ice when it's time to win the game.  His teams win more than they don't .Sutter knows what he has with Richie and uses him to get the most of his abilities,  having Kopitar's line shoulder the 1st line duties allows mike to play his natural two way game. Giroux's emergence would have allowed for a similar dynamic here but that's water under the bridge.

 

Brian Campbell tipped carter's shot, when people say you need luck to win the cup it's not just injury related, it's also dipped in **** luck related too.

[radoran]

Saying that Richards didn't show up for the final in '10 is too easy and doesn't give any credit to Jonathan Towes who ****** destroyed everyone he matched up with that year. 

 

Richards is on the ice when it's time to win the game.  His teams win more than they don't .Sutter knows what he has with Richie and uses him to get the most of his abilities,  having Kopitar's line shoulder the 1st line duties allows mike to play his natural two way game. Giroux's emergence would have allowed for a similar dynamic here but that's water under the bridge.

 

Brian Campbell tipped carter's shot, when people say you need luck to win the cup it's not just injury related, it's also dipped in **** luck related too.

 

Really, making Richards the first line center was the beginning of the end. He is a classic second/third line two/way guy.

 

They absolutely mismanaged the entire Richards situation pretty much from start to finish.

 

He got a Cup out of it. We still have them.

[radoran]

What do you think is more likely, having several players who were good enough or capable enough of being legit #1s and the coaching staff ruined them, or we simply have not had guys who are good enough to carry the load on their own? Looking around the league and the number of true superstar goalies, I'm gonna go with option 2. You?

 

Then, by all means, let's let the same people keep picking goalies.

[fanaticV3.0]

Then, by all means, let's let the same people keep picking goalies.

 

By that logic, there's a whole lot of coaches and scouts that should be fired every season.

[radoran]

By that logic, there's a whole lot of coaches and scouts that should be fired every season.

 

Why? Did they pick Esche, Niittymaki, Biron, Backlund, Boucher, Leighton, Bobrovsky, Bryzgalov, Mason and Emery and decide to keep all of them except the one that won the Vezina?

 

Of course, there are a whole lot of coaches and scouts that get fired every season.

 

GMs, too.

[Flyskippy]

NRH, I don't gang up on people, I type what I think. You said they were crap in the playoffs, then changed in the face of facts. I mentioned Lappy as an example of a player who had immeasurable contributions, albeit doesn't light up a basic stat sheet.

If you feel people are teaming up against you, either you're wrong, or need more proof and courage. Crying about anyone needing reinforcements is bs and you know it.

If I recall correctly, Richards needed surgery immediately after the series, and was asked to be more of a checker than scorer.

If Carter doesn't miss that shot though...

It's been said that hitting Niemi in the mask is a product of toilet-training with a floating Cheerio.  All that open net and doink! into the mask.

[radoran]

The whole "Leighton Goal" is very similar of the infamous Buffalo "No Goal"  in how people remember it.

 

Even had the Flyers won Game 6, they were still going to have to win Game 7 on the road in Chicago.

 

They had lost all three other games in Chicago.

[jammer2]

@Flyskippy  That Carter miss on the glaring open net haunts me to this day. Things could have been so different had he buried that. Regarding Jeff, I slowly evolved from basic hero worship, to indifference... to just wanting him gone. He did not play "Flyers hockey" in my estimation. There was never much of a element of desperation to his game. He tried to get by on his scoring prowess, but I always wanted more effort from Jeff, especially on the forecheck. He always seemed to do just enough to not get vilified, just enough positioning on defense so it could be said he cared, but in the end, it was the bare minimum he needed, he gave the illusion of caring, without really getting his nose dirty.

 

 I've always said, money players, they bury that missed shot. The fact he missed, and the way he did it, it kinda broke the camels back for me.

[NRH]

NRH, I don't gang up on people, I type what I think. You said they were crap in the playoffs, then changed in the face of facts. I mentioned Lappy as an example of a player who had immeasurable contributions, albeit doesn't light up a basic stat sheet.

If you feel people are teaming up against you, either you're wrong, or need more proof and courage. Crying about anyone needing reinforcements is bs and you know it.

If I recall correctly, Richards needed surgery immediately after the series, and was asked to be more of a checker than scorer.

If Carter doesn't miss that shot though...

Actually no, my argument never changed, He disappeared in those finals, at least 10 of those 77 points came in scoring barrages in the first rounds he has been in over the years. Was Danny B's stat line that impressive knowing that he scored most of those against MAF but then disappeared against the Devils?

 

I like Richards as a 2nd line guy, but for a 1st line center to score 2 points in 5 games? That's bad in the regular season much less the play-offs.

 

Yes, he did play with heart like Lappy and a few others, but just like with Brindamor, only the fans want players that come to play everyday.

 

What do you think is more likely, having several players who were good enough or capable enough of being legit #1s and the coaching staff ruined them, or we simply have not had guys who are good enough to carry the load on their own? Looking around the league and the number of true superstar goalies, I'm gonna go with option 2. You?

Considering one of those goalies just won the Vezina the moment he left?

Or that one of them had won 40 games in multiple season before coming here?

Or that one of them one a cup after leaving here and is coming back?

 

I dunno, out of all the coaches I think the Assistant coach is being overlooked, Reese is being given the benefit of the doubt and Lavi is being criticized rather than fired. But there aren't that many coaches available to simply replace the staff we have, its easier to just swap players around every year until you make magic happen.

 

 

 

@Flyskippy  

 

 I've always said, money players, they bury that missed shot. The fact he missed, and the way he did it, it kinda broke the camels back for me.

 

Pressure often breaks weaker camels, Jeff couldn't carry LAK in the finals against the Hawks either. Maybe its  Blackhawks thing that is poison to Richards/Carter

Edited August 30, 2013 by NRH

[jammer2]

@NRH  Easy to point out that Richards totaled 2 pts in the finals. What you are conveniently doing though, is leaving out the proper context that lead to the finals slump. Mike played the whole 2010 season with badly injured left AND right shoulders. In fact, as soon as the finals were over, he had surgery on both bad shoulders. It was a heroic effort, the ENTIRE 2010 playoffs. To suggest anything else is wrong. To pile on the guy once his body finally gave out....and point a finger towards his 2 pt final, when he carried the team from the start of those playoffs, that's being more than nit-picky. You are tying to distort what really happened to fit your argument that he does not produce in the playoffs, and for me, that's offbase.

 

  Even discounting the BADLY inured shoulders, he was outplayed by Toews....and there is no shame in that. Toews was healthy and on top of his game, and when he is in that groove, there is no player that can stop him.

[doom88]

Really, making Richards the first line center was the beginning of the end. He is a classic second/third line two/way guy.

They absolutely mismanaged the entire Richards situation pretty much from start to finish.

He got a Cup out of it. We still have them.

I'm not sure. What if Richards ever played with legitimate scoring wingers in Philly? What could he do in that situation? I think he had first line talent, but not the mental strength to fight Carchidi's fiction every day. He did center the best line in the last Olympics based on on-ice play.

[radoran]

I'm not sure. What if Richards ever played with legitimate scoring wingers in Philly? What could he do in that situation? I think he had first line talent, but not the mental strength to fight Carchidi's fiction every day. He did center the best line in the last Olympics based on on-ice play.

 

Richards can play first line center - and he has.

 

For me, he is better suited to the 2/3 two-way role. It gives a team more flexibility as he can be deployed in multiple situations and roles.

 

It's also a product of using the traditional definitions of lines. I come from the school that having three legitimate scoring lines is a vital part of a championship contender so putting Richards in that role is not, for my way of thinking, a "demotion" or a criticism of his abilities.

 

I just think as a true "#1 C" there are players better suited to the role. As with your question about legit wingers, it is true that the Flyers didn't really have one.

 

Not even the "#1 C" that they "had to sign" to the eight-year, NMC deal they just had to "compliance buyout" their way out of.

[jammer2]

@radoran  Doom makes a valid point, if you center the best line on Team Canada, you're doing something right...lol.  I do think you are right though, although Richie has the talent to be a #1 center, team wise, it's the perfect scenario to have him be the #2 guy, gives him more energy on the pk and allows him to ditch the elite checkers of the league.

 

 It's being a bit picky, but I never thought Richards skated well enough to be a true elite #1 center. He always got to where he had to go, but had to dig down into the energy reserves to accomplish the task at hand, where others like Towes, it just comes easier for them, being a naturally elite skater. Not Mikes fault really, he just got screwed by DNA.

[radoran]

@radoran  Doom makes a valid point, if you center the best line on Team Canada, you're doing something right...lol.  I do think you are right though, although Richie has the talent to be a #1 center, team wise, it's the perfect scenario to have him be the #2 guy, gives him more energy on the pk and allows him to ditch the elite checkers of the league.

 

 It's being a bit picky, but I never thought Richards skated well enough to be a true elite #1 center. He always got to where he had to go, but had to dig down into the energy reserves to accomplish the task at hand, where others like Towes, it just comes easier for them, being a naturally elite skater. Not Mikes fault really, he just got screwed by DNA.

 

Well, part of that success on Team Canada had to do with the fact that he wasn't playing as the #1 Center for the team. Canada's #1 center - Crosby - had the attention of the top defensive players on every team.

 

A terrific example, in my opinion, of why he is best suited for a 2nd-line role (or "3rd-line" as you can put that line out against another team's #1 and not have a lot of defensive worries).

 

His talent level ("1-A?" ) is such that in the second line role he usually overmatches the players he is up against.

 

I'd say he is in the same sort of situation as Primeau here. But I think Richards has more talent than Primeau.