Another season with crappy goaltending

[jammer2]

  With the Flyers luck, Emery will emerge as the dominant goalie, get re-signed to a long term deal for big money and THEN his age will start to show, and we will be left picking up the pieces, hate to sound like a pessimist, but this is a few decades worth of mistakes built up here!

[murraycraven]

I will take two average goalies at a reasonable price rather than 1 below average goalie with an enormous pricetag.

[canoli]

At worst Emery will give us steady, better-than-most goaltending and Mason will crash and burn. On the more hopeful side Mason returns to his rookie form and Emery is outstanding. If it's something in between we'll be okay with that. Like someone already said if the Flyers do poorly it won't be because of goaltending it'll be because Lavy refuses to hammer into the guys the concept of TEAM D.

 

But I don't know how anyone can say we're not better than last year on paper. Vinny for Briere? come on. Emery/Mason for BryzAster? please, not even close. We blew money on an old guy on D who's supposedly our "puck-moving specialist" and granted he's pretty good at that. I would've rather seen younger guys take Streit's roster spot but on paper it's not a bad-looking bunch of D-men.

 

I'm looking forward to this year. I get the feeling it'll be Lavy's last if we don't go deep and by now even he must see the weakness has been Protecting the Net as a team. If he makes the adjustement and doesn't wear out the hotter of the 2 goalies we should have a good shot at April and May...maybe even June!

[PHI Flyers10]

I think we're going to be pretty crap this season. You don't lose every game of the regular season and say it's not important. Obviously anything can happen and one of the goalies can get hot but right now I'm not feeling too good about the team. The defense looks pretty bad on paper and some of the forwards still aren't performing. If Hartnell doesn't step up to how he played in 2011 then I think there are going to be some problems. I know those were his career highs but he actually played well too, it's not just a matter of putting up numbers (though we need those too). 

[PHI Flyers10]

At worst Emery will give us steady, better-than-most goaltending and Mason will crash and burn. On the more hopeful side Mason returns to his rookie form and Emery is outstanding. If it's something in between we'll be okay with that. Like someone already said if the Flyers do poorly it won't be because of goaltending it'll be because Lavy refuses to hammer into the guys the concept of TEAM D.

 

But I don't know how anyone can say we're not better than last year on paper. Vinny for Briere? come on. Emery/Mason for BryzAster? please, not even close. We blew money on an old guy on D who's supposedly our "puck-moving specialist" and granted he's pretty good at that. I would've rather seen younger guys take Streit's roster spot but on paper it's not a bad-looking bunch of D-men.

 

I'm looking forward to this year. I get the feeling it'll be Lavy's last if we don't go deep and by now even he must see the weakness has been Protecting the Net as a team. If he makes the adjustement and doesn't wear out the hotter of the 2 goalies we should have a good shot at April and May...maybe even June!

 

I think Mr. Lavi is gone by the midway point if the team is in the bottom 5 of the East. 

[jammer2]

  On the bright side, at least Emery and Mason can stop the odd break away!!

[radoran]

  On the bright side, at least Emery and Mason can stop the odd break away!!

 

So, the even breakaways we're screwed

[TedZep]

So, the even breakaways we're screwed

 

That ought to set a positive tone for the season, as the first breakaway shall be saved!

[brelic]

But I don't know how anyone can say we're not better than last year on paper. Vinny for Briere? come on. Emery/Mason for BryzAster? please, not even close. We blew money on an old guy on D who's supposedly our "puck-moving specialist" and granted he's pretty good at that. I would've rather seen younger guys take Streit's roster spot but on paper it's not a bad-looking bunch of D-men.

Lecavalier will provide more offensive pop than Briere, for sure. But for all the talk about how bad Briere (career -18) was defensively, Lecavalier (career -116) is also known for being defensively suspect. I haven't watched Lecavalier with any regularity when he was in TB, so he might perform very differently in Philly. But given his career stats, and given what we know about our own system, it's a fair guess that he will be no better than Briere in that respect.

I already went over the Streit and Emery/Mason additions in the other thread too. But on paper, yes, I think these moves did not address our needs, so in isolation, those three moves made us worse... on paper. But hockey's not played on paper.

The X factor, to me, are the young guys. We all expect big years from Brayden Schenn and Couturier. We also expect more growth for Giroux, Simmonds, and Read.

Defensively, we expect Schenn and Gus to continue their development, and for Coburn, Grossman, Mezsaros to return to form. Timonen is also an X factor... is this the year he really shows his age? Or does he turn in another excellent year like he did last year? A short season was probably to his benefit last year.

[canoli]

I already went over the Streit and Emery/Mason additions in the other thread too. But on paper, yes, I think these moves did not address our needs, so in isolation, those three moves made us worse... on paper. But hockey's not played on paper.

 

 

Streit "did not address our need"?

Emery/Mason "did not address our need"?

 

I didn't like buying Mark Streit's services for 4 years but he certainly fills a need for the Flyers. According to .... basically everyone! We needed a puck-moving guy on the back end and we got one. Was he the best we could do? I don't know who was available but I doubt it. And like I said I'd rather see Gus and Ollie worked into the lineup full-time. But you can't say Streit doesn't fill (or at least address) one of the Flyers' needs.

 

as far as Emery/Mason - you seriously don't think we improved our goaltending? Considering who was available...(Roberto for the next 12 years lol?)....tell me who we should've gotten. 

 

Well we get our first look at Mason this year tonight - according to the NHL Live guys he's starting the home opener.

 

 

But given his career stats, and given what we know about our own system, it's a fair guess that he will be no better than Briere in that respect.

 

 

 

Vinny LeCavalier is way better defensively than Briere - but I'll grant you that's because Briere is one of the worst fwds in the NHL on D. They're not "about equal" just because they're +/- is similar. One guy knows how to defend but hates doing it (apparently anyway, when you watch him he rarely leads the fwds back into the D zone) - the other guy is pretty much clueless on D. Did you happen to catch Briere's penalty last night? Typical DB. Along the wall, puck squibbed through him and a Leaf, the Leaf got the jump and Danny grabbed him. That''s his first instinct, grab, throw the stick in the way, etc. Lecavalier - once he gets used to Philly and the Flyers - I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised by his D. The knock on him is he just doesn't put in the effort to backcheck as much as he should.

[brelic]

Streit "did not address our need"?
Emery/Mason "did not address our need"?
 
I didn't like buying Mark Streit's services for 4 years but he certainly fills a need for the Flyers. According to .... basically everyone! We needed a puck-moving guy on the back end and we got one. Was he the best we could do? I don't know who was available but I doubt it. And like I said I'd rather see Gus and Ollie worked into the lineup full-time. But you can't say Streit doesn't fill (or at least address) one of the Flyers' needs.

 

Ok, point taken. He addressed *a* need. I wouldn't say it was our most pressing needs, but I guess the theory is that a solid PMD can help with the transition game from D to O. Personally, I would rather see Gus given a chance as the #4/5/6 defenseman, and live with the growing pains. But, it's not my money.

 

Streit is not good defensively. I've watched him lots in Montreal. He's prone to mistakes. 

 

In terms of who else was available, my first choice would be to stick with the guys we have. But even someone like Hainsey for 1 year (he signed for $2M in Carolina), to me, would have been money better spent.

 

as far as Emery/Mason - you seriously don't think we improved our goaltending? Considering who was available...(Roberto for the next 12 years lol?)....tell me who we should've gotten. 

 

On paper? No. 

 

In the dressing room? Absolutely.

 

On the ice? The preseason sure wasn't pretty. Let's hope tonight, the Mason from 5 years ago shows up.

 

Vinny LeCavalier is way better defensively than Briere - but I'll grant you that's because Briere is one of the worst fwds in the NHL on D. They're not "about equal" just because they're +/- is similar. One guy knows how to defend but hates doing it (apparently anyway, when you watch him he rarely leads the fwds back into the D zone) - the other guy is pretty much clueless on D. Did you happen to catch Briere's penalty last night? Typical DB. Along the wall, puck squibbed through him and a Leaf, the Leaf got the jump and Danny grabbed him. That''s his first instinct, grab, throw the stick in the way, etc. Lecavalier - once he gets used to Philly and the Flyers - I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised by his D. The knock on him is he just doesn't put in the effort to backcheck as much as he should.

 

I'll take your word for it because I haven't watched him very much over the years. If he ends up being responsible defensively, then kudos to Homer. If he ends up making Schenn and Simmonds better, then great! I think he will, btw. Those two players will really benefit from his experience.

 

I know the +/- is a much maligned stat in the NHL, but -116 sure as hell ain't pretty.

 

Go Flyers! 10 minutes to game time.

[FreakinFlyersFan]

Mason played well last night, too bad his team let him down by not scoring goals. I don't fault Mason on those 2 goals at all.

Edited October 3, 2013 by FreakinFlyersFan

[canoli]

Streit is not good defensively. I've watched him lots in Montreal. He's prone to mistakes.

 

in Montreal? whoa....going back a few years ! ... unfortunately he didn't get any better the last 5 years in Long Island. I watch the Isles pretty often and I never liked Streit, hated the signing by Homer. I know it isn't humongous money but it's no bargain either. For $5.25 million - for the next 4 years - we really should've been able to do better.

 

I have to give him credit though for last night. He played a solid game and seemed to mesh pretty well with the team. It's nice to see a Flyers' D-man carry the puck up ice under control, enter the O zone and create some space, slow the play down (or attack the net straight away - he did both last night) and find somebody open. He didn't have a whole lot to work with in NY so maybe he'll be a net gain for us; his offense will make up for his weakness defensively. It's a small sample but last night he looked good.

[brelic]

in Montreal? whoa....going back a few years ! ... unfortunately he didn't get any better the last 5 years in Long Island. I watch the Isles pretty often and I never liked Streit, hated the signing by Homer. I know it isn't humongous money but it's no bargain either. For $5.25 million - for the next 4 years - we really should've been able to do better.

 

Yeah, I live in hockey territory, so that means Montreal/Toronto/Ottawa are on pretty much anywhere you go, and I'm surrounded by Habs fans. So I got to see a lot of Streit. Always liked his puck moving skills. Never thought he was a good defenseman. Kinda like Green or Letang, though not nearly as offensively gifted. He gets caught out of position often because he rushes the play and he pinches a lot. Upside is that it creates offense from the point. Downside is ... well, we know all too well the downside of poor defense.

 

IMO, for the money, the length, the restriction (NMC), and the handcuff (35+), Streit was simply not a risk worth taking. I mentioned Hainsey as an alternative. He's younger, cheaper, and apparently was ok with a 1 year deal (though no idea if he simply ran out of offers?). He pretty much gives you what Streit does... obviously, not as good recently, but he is a PMD.

 

And to your point about a bargain, you're right, of course it's no bargain. Homer traded for his rights, and bet against himself because there was no market yet, and we had a stake (albeit a small one). And Homer has a history of making these kinds of deals, including the costliest mistake this franchise has ever made. So you can bet Streit's agent was licking his chops when the Flyers acquired his rights. He had him, hook, line, and sinker.

 

I have to give him credit though for last night. He played a solid game and seemed to mesh pretty well with the team. It's nice to see a Flyers' D-man carry the puck up ice under control, enter the O zone and create some space, slow the play down (or attack the net straight away - he did both last night) and find somebody open. He didn't have a whole lot to work with in NY so maybe he'll be a net gain for us; his offense will make up for his weakness defensively. It's a small sample but last night he looked good.

 

Totally agree. He looked good last night. Got involved in the play and got an assist. He led a few other plays that almost led to goals. I'd say if we were already a sound defensive squad, the addition of Streit would be a manageable defensive risk. But with our ragtag bunch, it kind of adds to the disorganization. Only one game, so I guess we have to see exactly what Streit looks like as a Flyer.

[canoli]

I'd say if we were already a sound defensive squad, the addition of Streit would be a manageable defensive risk.

 

great point - and the one about Homer locking himself into the deal - duh - before the market had a chance to develop - or even see if a market would develop. Dumbass. The over-35 thing really makes it ugly for us too. On the plus side Streit is no Pronger, he's no banger so hopefully we'll actually get 4 years of service from him.

 

But back to the "if we were already ..." I did not like the looks of Coburn or Meszaros last night. Coburn leaves Lupul alone on the PK, lets him get between him and Mason...Bolland drops past him a second later and pots an easy one - him and Lupul alone in front of Mason. Coburn - puck-staring on the PK. Come on. I know everybody gets caught once in awhile staring at the puck but not on the PK! And that one was costly - made it 3-1 and put the game basically out of reach (the way Bernier was playing).

 

And Mez - I missed the blind passes by Giroux that some folks are complaining about today but I sure saw enough of them from Mez. Even in the first 2 periods when the Flyers were really clicking he stood out to me as slow and kind of dumb ... taking shots that have no chance of going in but even worse, slamming them into Bernier with no Flyer anywhere close to making a play on a rebound - for all practical purposes it's a TO. Maybe he deserves a break since he's just coming back but I expected better from him the first game.

 

Both of them...if they play like that then no amount of pt. production from Streit will help us.

[brelic]

But back to the "if we were already ..." I did not like the looks of Coburn or Meszaros last night. Coburn leaves Lupul alone on the PK, lets him get between him and Mason...Bolland drops past him a second later and pots an easy one - him and Lupul alone in front of Mason. Coburn - puck-staring on the PK. Come on. I know everybody gets caught once in awhile staring at the puck but not on the PK! And that one was costly - made it 3-1 and put the game basically out of reach (the way Bernier was playing).

 

Coburn is an enigma. I dunno, he rarely stands out for any particularly good reason. You know what I mean? I'm sure I'm imagining this, but it just seems there's never a game where Coburn is the guy who blocked a lot of shots on a particular night (like Grossman last night), or scored a wicked goal, or made a game-changing outlet pass, or a great defensive play. Again, I'm sure he's done lots of these things, but I never seem to notice it. I had high hopes when we traded for him, and chalked up his mediocrity over the years as growing pains and development. But he's 28 and this is pretty much the time defensemen hit their prime. So maybe there's another level to his game.

 

For a #8 overall, he just seems to be an average defenseman who does a lot of things right, but nothing really stands out as his definite strength, know what I mean?

 

And Mez - I missed the blind passes by Giroux that some folks are complaining about today but I sure saw enough of them from Mez. Even in the first 2 periods when the Flyers were really clicking he stood out to me as slow and kind of dumb ... taking shots that have no chance of going in but even worse, slamming them into Bernier with no Flyer anywhere close to making a play on a rebound - for all practical purposes it's a TO. Maybe he deserves a break since he's just coming back but I expected better from him the first game.

 

Yeah, Mez is not good in the Flyers zone. He gets pressured easily into making mistakes. He looked ok in the offensive zone, and I realized last night how much we missed guys like him who can get shots through from the point. With him out, there was basically Timonen last year that could do that on a regular basis. And even he doesn't often use a slapper... he's more of a wrister from the point. 

 

You know, at this point, since I don't think the team will commit to him beyond this year, I'd much rather see Gus in his spot. He won't be worse, and he needs to play NHL minutes.

[Howie58]

Greetings:

 

Let's give MASEM 6-10 games before the crucifixion. I thought Mason looked pretty good last night. He made most of the first stops he had to...his D left people alone for too long and nobody would have stopped Kessel's rocket. 

 

Our management may not be so hot. But the coach will go before the GM.

 

Peace,

 

Howie

[canoli]

I dunno, he rarely stands out for any particularly good reason. You know what I mean?

 

I do. And I don't think you're imagining it at all. I like his steadiness and reliability, they're great assets for the Flyers. But you're right he's never the 1st star (ever?). He's just not a leader but he is a good follower, and I don't mean that as a joke. I think we get good value from him and he'd be one of the last D-men I'd trade if it comes to that.

 

I hope we move Meszaros. He gets a shot through once in awhile, he can carry the puck and control it...till he gets pressured. He seems like a one-trick pony to me....He usually blasts his shot too soon, when the other Flyers are just entering the zone so unless it goes in the puck almost always goes back to the opposition. I give him credit though for some great plays. He's been clutch for us a few times. If he could be a little smarter he could be really good for us. Defensively he's not bad at all.