Bob

[fanaticV3.0]

Ranked 29th in GAA and 25th in SV%; both of which are below Mason.

 

I know it's early, but that's part of my point. I found the stats funny considering people thought we traded away the future of the org last year. This guy is not proven yet at all imo.

[ruxpin]

It's the SV% that would concern me move than the GAA.   The team hasn't been very good around him.  That probably explains a little bit of the SV% and a bit more of the GAA, but even with the team playing lousy, the SV% is more about him.

 

I don't care about Columbus, or Bob really, except he's on my fantasy team.  So he has to step it up.

 

When does Columbus play the Flyers?   That ought to help.

[mojo1917]

Ranked 29th in GAA and 25th in SV%; both of which are below Mason.

 

I know it's early, but that's part of my point. I found the stats funny considering people thought we traded away the future of the org last year. This guy is not proven yet at all imo.

to your point , i thought Semyon Varlomav was going to be the next Tretiak....and he's been okay after a really good first go round through the league.  so while Bobdrovsky may have a shitpile of physical ability he may not turn into the end all be all King Henrick, Marty Broduer type all galaxy backstop .  

[radoran]

He was at 2.70 and .917 just a few days ago.

 

Now at 2.49/.921

 

15th in GAA and 12th in SV% among "qualified leaders" (i.e. "played more than three games this season")

 

Columbus is probably happier with Bob than they were with Mason's 3.39/.895 in the last full season.

 

Career for Bob? 2.49/.917

 

Mason? 2.86/.905

 

Flyers may not have traded away "the future of the organization" but they haven't necessarily signed the future of the organization, either.

[hf101]

Bob is probably wearing the wrong size goalie pads. 

[fanaticV3.0]

It's the SV% that would concern me move than the GAA.   The team hasn't been very good around him.  That probably explains a little bit of the SV% and a bit more of the GAA, but even with the team playing lousy, the SV% is more about him.

 

I don't care about Columbus, or Bob really, except he's on my fantasy team.  So he has to step it up.

 

When does Columbus play the Flyers?   That ought to help.

 

I know and it's not to be ignored, but one thing that rubs me the wrong way is when people start going off on players we traded away after a fairly short stint of success.

 

JVR this year is a great example. I don't care that he has 8 points in 8 games. Wake me up if he breaks 50 points and manages to do it for multiple years. Until then, no real loss.

 

I don't know when they play, but you know if the Flyers lose there's going to be some idiots posting sh!t lke "See, see! We should have kept him!"

Edited October 24, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[fanaticV3.0]

to your point , i thought Semyon Varlomav was going to be the next Tretiak....and he's been okay after a really good first go round through the league.  so while Bobdrovsky may have a shitpile of physical ability he may not turn into the end all be all King Henrick, Marty Broduer type all galaxy backstop .  

 

I know Snider has no patience and if I sat down and thought about it there's a few guys I could come up with I'd like to have back, but Bob isn't one of them. At least not yet he isn't. It's simply too soon to say that yet and I hate when people harp on trading away any young player when he has a hot streak.

[radoran]

I know and it's not to be ignored, but one thing that rubs me the wrong way is when people start going off on players we traded away after a fairly short stint of success.

 

JVR this year is a great example. I don't care that he has 8 points in 8 games. Wake me up if he breaks 50 points and manages to do it for multiple years. Until then, no real loss.

 

I don't know when they play, but you know if the Flyers lose there's going to be some idiots posting **** lke "See, see! We should have kept him!"

 

Winning the Vezina isn't really a "short stint of success"...

 

It's not the 8 in 8, but 32 points in 48 games last year is nothing to sneeze at from a guy who had 21 goals and 40 points in his second year in the league.

 

There was certainly a reason that the Flyers drafted him second overall - and it likely wasn't to deal him for a stay-at-home defenseman. Although with Homer anything's possible.

 

I'll wake you up in a couple of years

 

December 19 at home for the first CBJ/Flyers tilt. It's the first half of a home-and-home with a day off in between.

 

Might get Bob twice.

[brelic]

to your point , i thought Semyon Varlomav was going to be the next Tretiak....and he's been okay after a really good first go round through the league.  so while Bobdrovsky may have a shitpile of physical ability he may not turn into the end all be all King Henrick, Marty Broduer type all galaxy backstop .

Well he's a 1.68, .950 this year as the starter for Colorado. I have him in my FHL.

Everyone laughed at me when I picked him, McKinnon, and Duchene. I had a feeling the Avs would be a strong team, and so far they look solid.

[mojo1917]

Well he's a 1.68, .950 this year as the starter for Colorado. I have him in my FHL.

Everyone laughed at me when I picked him, McKinnon, and Duchene. I had a feeling the Avs would be a strong team, and so far they look solid.

Hey that's great, and the way he battled plus ability he showed in Washington had me thinking he would be a very good goalie. But he lacks the consistency of the great ones, at least to this point in his career.

[fanaticV3.0]

Winning the Vezina isn't really a "short stint of success"...

 

It's not the 8 in 8, but 32 points in 48 games last year is nothing to sneeze at from a guy who had 21 goals and 40 points in his second year in the league.

 

There was certainly a reason that the Flyers drafted him second overall - and it likely wasn't to deal him for a stay-at-home defenseman. Although with Homer anything's possible.

 

I'll wake you up in a couple of years

 

December 19 at home for the first CBJ/Flyers tilt. It's the first half of a home-and-home with a day off in between.

 

Might get Bob twice.

 

Ah, save that Vezina stuff for a real season. You don't see me bragging about our Jennings Trophy winning goaltender Ray Emery do you? It's just not a great measuring stick (the shortened seasons that is).

There have been plenty of guys who have put together stints that look otherworldly during a shortened period of time. Boucher, Briere, and Druce are just a few off the top of my head.

 

It's definitely not bad. Far from it. But I'm gonna cry in my cornflakes over that one season. I've seen glimpses from him before. I've seen him disappear just as fast.

Edited October 24, 2013 by fanaticV3.0

[ruxpin]

but one thing that rubs me the wrong way is when people start going off on players we traded away after a fairly short stint of success

 

How about when they don't even have a short stint of success?   Were you around the boards after the Flyers traded Upshall?   Oh my God, people acted like we traded Gretzky or something.  I can't imagine how many people at silly.com must have had a naked Fat Head of Scotty hanging on their bedroom wall.

 

I have to say I wasn't at all sorry to see Bob go.  I was in the vast minority who simply didn't think he was very good.   I wasn't the only one, though:

 

From Bill Meltzer at HockeyBuzz a month before the trade:

There is a shrinking faction of people who believe that Bobrovsky has the potential to be a star goaltender in the NHL. Goaltenders often develop later than position players and Bobrovsky is still just 23 years old (he'll turn 24 during training camp).

However, the truth of the matter there are about a dozen goalies of about the same age and demonstrated pro ability as Bobrovsky in either the NHL as backups or still playing in the AHL. The gamut spans from Jonathan Bernier, Jhonas Enroth, Michal Neuvirth, Anders Lindbäck and Richard Bachman in the NHL to Jacob Markström, Eddie Läck, Jeremy Smith, Dustin Tokarski and Tyson Sexsmith in the AHL.

Although I would put Bobrovsky somewhere in the middle of the pack of the young goalies who have already played in the NHL, I don't think his maximum potential is more than a shade higher than average. He doesn't have a lot of trade value right now, especially at a time when goalies as a whole are not a hot trading commodity.

 

 

I wasn't even terribly upset about the draft picks.  We got three of them for what even Meltzer thought was a quite average goaltender.

 

When Bob played lights out, I was one of the first to admit I'd been wrong.   But I don't think he gets the chance here and I don't think he'd have taken advantage of it here if he did.   There's a big difference between playing goal in Columbus and playing goal in Philly.  He was actually given quite the opportunity here several times.  Every time he was given leash, he hung himself with it.   But, there were people who yelled "Bob!" the entire time he was here.  He was athletic, etc. etc.  so they, of course, felt vindicated.   But the truth is he was never actually anything more than average at best in Philly and would have remained so.

 

It became odd (and gave some justification to criticize Holmgren) when we ended up, in a separate trade, getting the guy Bob was replacing.

 

I kind of agree with your thing about a Vezina in a shortened season, but just want to point out that there are at least 59 other goalies who did NOT get it, even in the shortened season.    Is it a career maker?   Not necessarily.   Does this mean he'll go on and become legend (for someone besides a few boardies who apparently have old crusty yellowed socks with his picture on them)?   Maybe, but I wouldn't think the odds are good.

 

He obviously had a really good season.   A really good shortened season.   So far this year, he's been fairly pedestrian on a lousy team.

 

As far as I'm concerned, though, our goaltender(s) are currently doing fairly well and are not the problem.  We got three picks out of it.  We got Stolarz out of the 45 pick., so let's see how that turns out.  The 117 pick was Taylor Leier, who I absolutely know nothing about but is still in juniors.   Oddly enough, the third pick (the 4th rounder in 2013) was traded for a Simon Gagne rental...another absolutely average at best player who everyone creams themselves over losing.

 

But in the Bobrovsky for Mason exchange (I know, two separate deals, but..)

 

We get:   Mason, a 2012 2nd round pick, a 2012 4th round pick, , a Gagne rental, and Leighton gone.

They get:  Bobrovsky, a 2015 3rd round pick, and Leighton

 

It's really not that bad.

 

To the "but he won a Vezina" crowd:   Mason won a Calder Trophy as a goalie in a full season (not a shortened one) and against not just goalies.   I don't think that has really gotten him anything.  But it seems to me it should at least make the Bob people give the "Bob!" a rest.

[flyercanuck]

@fanaticV3.0

 

 He's not proven as far as being a top ten goalie in the league. But he's won more Vezina trophies than any Flyer goalie over the last quarter century.

 

 The thing that pissed me off wasn't that I thought we'd traded away a potential Vezina winner. It was that we finally had a goalie who showed some great potential, then went out and signed a mediocre goalie playing on a great defensive team to a ridiculous lifetime contract....forcing the trade of Bob.

[radoran]

I do think that the case is often overblown - as is the case that it's really not a big deal.

 

The truth is, as usual, somewhere in the middle.

 

As for "pedestrian" it's hard to put up .933, .963, .943, .938, .960 in the NHL as a "pedestrian goalie"

 

But that is balanced out by .867, .886 and .897 - speaking to your point about consistency.

 

My problem wasn't "trading Bob" - it was the commitment to Bryzgalov that essentially forced the move.

[ruxpin]

As for "pedestrian" it's hard to put up .933, .963, .943, .938, .960 in the NHL as a "pedestrian goalie"

 

I'm the one who used "pedestrian."

 

The phrase was "so far, he's been fairly pedestrian on a lousy team."    I was speaking of this year, but obviously that wasn't clear and really couldn't have been read to mean that.   I've edited it to say "so far this year, he's been..."  (In case anyone later reads both our posts and thinks you've missed my point regarding pedestrian, my point wasn't very clear until after edit).

 

Even this year, "pedestrian" may be unfair, but Mason's numbers are actually slightly better.

 

But Rad, I think I actually missed what you were citing with the numbers above.  Whose are those?   Bobrovsky's not around long enough for that many numbers.   Wasn't sure who they were referring to.

[jammer2]

  As far as the JVR trade goes, I said it at the time and I still stick by it....we didn't get enough back potential wise. Luke was really a what you see is what you get, a respectable defensive d-man who is slow but has other attributes that make up for the slowness. JVR had to be moved, he was not showing hustle, had no sense of urgency as a Flyer. I just think we should have got more back potential wise. We made the mistake of having him on the 3rd line most of the time. JVR is a top 6 forward who needs talent around him to make the best of his skill set. He didn't necessarily deserve to be in the top 6 in Philly, but inevitably, you must try him there for an extended period before dealing him off. If you are going to deal him, you need to get a guy back who can potentially put up 30-35 goals eventually, cause that is where I had him pegged at production wise after a few more years. It was a short sighted move.

 

 It was one of those moves where both players needed a fresh new start. JVR is playing with renewed vigor....driving to the net hard, hustling more....for whatever reason, I don't think that would have happened in Philly. I agree with moving him, just wanted to see more coming back. We all seen him dominate in the playoffs a few years back, he played like a man possessed. He just never recreated it in Philly, which is totally frustrating...cause we all knew he had it in him.

[ruxpin]

I didn't know JVR had anything in him. I think he's a punk ass loser who is going through a good streak

[radoran]

I didn't know JVR had anything in him. I think he's a punk ass loser who is going through a good streak

 

He's going to be a consistent 30-goal scorer. The New Jersey player they always coveted.

 

We're of two minds on this

[ruxpin]

In other news....Lupul hurt himself again.   I mean,it's been a week, so he was due.

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/10/24/maple_leafs_coach_randy_carlyle_left_pained_after_joffrey_lupul_hurt.html

[flyercanuck]

There's a lot of talk of making Lupul captain in Toronto. Yes he gets hurt a lot. But the guy is night and day away from the immature dude we had in Philly.

[brelic]

The thing that pissed me off wasn't that I thought we'd traded away a potential Vezina winner. It was that we finally had a goalie who showed some great potential, then went out and signed a mediocre goalie playing on a great defensive team to a ridiculous lifetime contract....forcing the trade of Bob.

Bingo! That's my problem with the move. It's that we forced ourselves to trade him away because of a terrible move.

Even if the Bryz signing had turned out fine, did we honestly think he would be a starter for a decade, pushing 40? At that salary and with a NMC, you're putting yourself in a precarious situation, and Bob had no future here behind Bryz.

It's like if we trade away Laughton because we signed Vinny and have a glut of centers and no room higher than 4th line for Laughton. It's short-sighted.

[radoran]

It's like if we trade away Laughton because we signed Vinny and have a glut of centers and no room higher than 4th line for Laughton. It's short-sighted.

 

Wait for it...

 

[flyercanuck]

@brelic

 

 It's almost like Homer doesn't have a plan and just flys by the seat of his pants.

[brelic]

@brelic

 

 It's almost like Homer doesn't have a plan and just flys by the seat of his pants.

Almost, eh?

[fanaticV3.0]

How about when they don't even have a short stint of success?   Were you around the boards after the Flyers traded Upshall?   Oh my God, people acted like we traded Gretzky or something.  I can't imagine how many people at silly.com must have had a naked Fat Head of Scotty hanging on their bedroom wall.

 

I have to say I wasn't at all sorry to see Bob go.  I was in the vast minority who simply didn't think he was very good.   I wasn't the only one, though:

 

From Bill Meltzer at HockeyBuzz a month before the trade:

 

I wasn't even terribly upset about the draft picks.  We got three of them for what even Meltzer thought was a quite average goaltender.

 

When Bob played lights out, I was one of the first to admit I'd been wrong.   But I don't think he gets the chance here and I don't think he'd have taken advantage of it here if he did.   There's a big difference between playing goal in Columbus and playing goal in Philly.  He was actually given quite the opportunity here several times.  Every time he was given leash, he hung himself with it.   But, there were people who yelled "Bob!" the entire time he was here.  He was athletic, etc. etc.  so they, of course, felt vindicated.   But the truth is he was never actually anything more than average at best in Philly and would have remained so.

 

It became odd (and gave some justification to criticize Holmgren) when we ended up, in a separate trade, getting the guy Bob was replacing.

 

I kind of agree with your thing about a Vezina in a shortened season, but just want to point out that there are at least 59 other goalies who did NOT get it, even in the shortened season.    Is it a career maker?   Not necessarily.   Does this mean he'll go on and become legend (for someone besides a few boardies who apparently have old crusty yellowed socks with his picture on them)?   Maybe, but I wouldn't think the odds are good.

 

He obviously had a really good season.   A really good shortened season.   So far this year, he's been fairly pedestrian on a lousy team.

 

As far as I'm concerned, though, our goaltender(s) are currently doing fairly well and are not the problem.  We got three picks out of it.  We got Stolarz out of the 45 pick., so let's see how that turns out.  The 117 pick was Taylor Leier, who I absolutely know nothing about but is still in juniors.   Oddly enough, the third pick (the 4th rounder in 2013) was traded for a Simon Gagne rental...another absolutely average at best player who everyone creams themselves over losing.

 

But in the Bobrovsky for Mason exchange (I know, two separate deals, but..)

 

We get:   Mason, a 2012 2nd round pick, a 2012 4th round pick, , a Gagne rental, and Leighton gone.

They get:  Bobrovsky, a 2015 3rd round pick, and Leighton

 

It's really not that bad.

 

To the "but he won a Vezina" crowd:   Mason won a Calder Trophy as a goalie in a full season (not a shortened one) and against not just goalies.   I don't think that has really gotten him anything.  But it seems to me it should at least make the Bob people give the "Bob!" a rest.

 

Haha, yes! I think I was posting on the team's official message boards when Upshall got traded. I remember people being livid over that.

 

I wasn't upset when they traded Bob either. I just never saw anything to get excited about in him. That's not to say he's terrible. He's played well at times, I just don't excited about a player very easily. A Vezina during a shortened season means very little to me. Guys throw together stints of another level and are then never heard from again all the time.

 

I don't hate Gagne - I actually have nothing against him at all -  but I just never got the fascination with him. Some people act like he invented hockey and as far as I'm concerned, he's not even an all-time great Flyer. As a player, I always found him to be someone who never really found a definitive role. There were a few years there where he looked like a very good two-way player, but there were times before and after that he looked like a goal scorer. I mean, what was he exactly? The first several years of his career he looked like a nice points producer. He looked like a kid who would evolve into maybe your 2nd or 3rd scoring player on the team. Then his numbers tanked, but he looked like a defensive genius under Hitch at times. Then his numbers skyrocket back up to scorer level with Forsberg and they nosedive again. Nice player, wouldn't mind having him if he was healthy, but is not the phenomenon some treat him as.