Flyers choose L. Schenn over Yandle for JVR

[doom88]

I am curious how a player who scored 21 in his second year in the league and was "on pace" for that again (11 in 43) before injury "looked to be just about a bust."

Simply put, he didn't look like Patrick Kane.

[brelic]

i was silently agreeing with you through this thread, but i can't go with you here.  the flyers, imo, hoped that a change of scenery would kick l schenn into developing into the 1st pair uber dman he was projected to become when he was drafted 5th overall.  he was supposed to be an utterly reliable complete-shutdown guy with a significant offensive side to his game way back then.

I don't know about "significant offensive upside." Hockeysfuture had this to say about Luke:

Talent Analysis

Schenn plays a strong and physical defense. Touted as a shut-down defenseman, Schenn is generally underrated offensively, an aspect of his skill set that is likely to materialize as he matures in professional hockey.

Future

He has the potential to become a shut down defender at the NHL level.

His rating - 7.5 A - is also indicative of a #2 at best, and #3-4 on the low end. I don't know how often HF reviews these rankings, so his initial draft ranking was (likely) different.

I never watched Schenn at the junior level, and I barely watched him at the NHL level, so I'm in no position to make a judgment either way. But never once did I read anywhere over the years that Schenn was expected to be an offensive contributor. The words I heard were things like "punishing hitter", "shutdown defender", etc.

So if Homer thought at all otherwise, he's the fool.

How much do you think having his brother factored into the equation? I'm betting a lot.

[Commander Clueless]

I imagine that the Flyers would have had to have given more for Yandle, and I also don't think Schenn has regressed. In fact, he has looked better in Philly in my mind than he did the last year of his time in Toronto.

 

Unfortunately he hasn't progressed much yet either.

 

Also, two very different games. I'm guessing Holmgren was looking for the in-your-face type of defensive defenseman.

 

When Schenn was drafted he was touted as a hard hitting, nasty defensive specialist. We got the defensive specialist and the hitting, but the part that seems to be lacking is the nastiness. There were some that suggested hidden offensive potential, but I think that was mostly wishful thinking. He was drafted to be a shutdown guy, through and through.

 

I think he still has it in him to be a strong shutdown guy, although not as tough as we were lead to believe.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Commander Clueless

[King Knut]

I don't know. I'm just trying to reason through it.

Most fans on the old message board seemed to think he was a bust.

I was ambivalent about it because I though Luke was supposed o be decent.

The other thing that I can assume is that Phoenix wanted more for Yandle than just JVR. Which makes sense.

Even if JVR is a 30 goal scorer, you do t just trade away a strong puck movin defenseman capable of 50+ points per year even if he's a perpetual minus player.

I am curious how a player who scored 21 in his second year in the league and was "on pace" for that again (11 in 43) before injury "looked to be just about a bust."

[murraycraven]

Homer is an idiot and the flyers hate having American players. Always have.

There's an argument to be made that homer wanted a defensively minded d man and not a puck mover.

There's also a severely strong question in my mind as to why ghettoes would have been willing to part with Yandle.

I he's half as good as this article and you suggest, trading him for JVR would be a bit ludicrous even now as a puck moving defenseman is one of the most valuable players in this league. More valuable even than a 30 goal scorer probably. And at this poi t JVR looked to be just about a bust.

Which is all not to say that homer isn't an idiot. He is. There maybe just be more to this than we think at first glance.

 

 

 

Homer is an American hockey player and a HUGE voice in USA Hockey.  I dont think being an American had anything to do with anything honestly.

[radoran]

I don't know. I'm just trying to reason through it.

Most fans on the old message board seemed to think he was a bust.

I was ambivalent about it because I though Luke was supposed o be decent.

The other thing that I can assume is that Phoenix wanted more for Yandle than just JVR. Which makes sense.

Even if JVR is a 30 goal scorer, you do t just trade away a strong puck movin defenseman capable of 50+ points per year even if he's a perpetual minus player.

 

I completely agree that Phoenix would want and could get more for Yandle. Add in that he's signed for two more years at $5.25M per cap hit and his value, for me, increases.

 

However, don't overlook JVR's contract. Signed through 2018 at $4.25M cap hit, as a 20-goal scorer he's right in line with what the market bears today. If he hits the 25-30 level he has been (and is) "on pace" for, his value is even higher.

 

Could easily be that Phoenix was looking to add offense on the front end and saw a guy with the right combination of "potential" and "achievement" to make it worth parting with Yandle.

[King Knut]

Just a joke I know he's a Yankee. Said so in another post.

It used to be a joke that Clarke hated American players.

Homer is an American hockey player and a HUGE voice in USA Hockey. I dont think being an American had anything to do with anything honestly.

[murraycraven]

Just a joke I know he's a Yankee. Said so in another post.

It used to be a joke that Clarke hated American players.

 

Sorry... did not see the other post!!!

[TedZep]

Simply put, he didn't look like Patrick Kane.

 

Stupid lottery....

[brelic]

Stupid lottery....

Patrick Kane would have been run out of town faster than Richards and Carter were shipped out.

EDIT: And I would add that Schenn has regressed in Philly, at least offensively.

He got progressively better in terms of PPG in each of his 4 seasons in Toronto.

He's gotten progressively worse in each of his two seasons with Philly.

Maybe there's something to the rumour that we can't develop defensemen.

[radoran]

Patrick Kane would have been run out of town faster than Richards and Carter were shipped out.

 

I really have to agree with this...

[JackStraw]

I really have to agree with this...

 

"Thirded".

[Polaris922]

I think Homer is an idiot, as you all know. I also thought more of JvR than most Flyers fans and still do.

Having said that, and no disrespect to JvR... I can't believe Holmgren is dumb enough to pass on a deal for Yandle if that we're truly an option, even up. Then he could go after Luke Schenn still if he really wanted to, but passing on Yandoe even up?

I can't believe I'm sticking up for Holmgren here but I call BS on this trade rumor. OR there was a lot more to it that just made it unfeasible!!

[OccamsRazor]

I can't believe I'm sticking up for Holmgren here but I call BS on this trade rumor

 

Me too.

 

I'm ok with him trading JVR it may have gave him what he needed to push him time will tell.

 

But i didn't like what i saw from him in the little time he was here, yes he was young and yes maybe that is being impatience. Flyers aren't known for that.

 

I'm ok with them trading him but for myself i didn't really want Yandle, i wanted OEL.

 

And i'd would have been ok working out a package for him, but they settled for Schenn.

 

Kind of a head scratcher at the time and looking even more like one but may here to we need to be patient hes is still young. I'm told i still should be with an even older Coburn.

 

But with hind sight of the lose of Carle and then the signing of Streit i would have taken Yandle instead of Schenn but that is me.

 

Edit: Streit like Vinny i'm ok with the signing jst not the lengths of the contracts....both 3 years tops and would have took 2 years for both.

Edited January 6, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

I'm ok with him trading JVR it may have gave him what he needed to push him time will tell.

 

...

 

Edit: Streit like Vinny i'm ok with the signing jst not the lengths of the contracts....both 3 years tops and would have took 2 years for both.

 

Just "for the record" - I'm perfectly fine with the idea of trading JVR atthatpoint. I just think that the return they got was horrible, no good, very bad. Thought so at the time. Think so now.

 

Yandle might have made that moot, but that's not what happened. Again, evaluating on what actually happened instead of what might have happened if...

 

Also, too, VLC is not a bad contract given the price point (and that it's a sub-35 deal). If he can provide 20/50 with "leadership" then you get what you pay for.

 

Streit is looking stronger this season (he's been on my FHL since someone in the league cut him), and we can hope for three more after this, but the downside is the potential of $10M in LTIR spread out to Pronger and Streit for the next three years. FSM forbid.

[OccamsRazor]

Streit is looking stronger this season (he's been on my FHL since someone in the league cut him), and we can hope for three more after this, but the downside is the potential of $10M in LTIR spread out to Pronger and Streit for the next three years

 

Thanks for pointing that out now Homer gets another pin in his Voodoo doll all thanks to you!!!!

Edited January 6, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

Thanks for pointing that out now Homer gets another pin in his Voodoo doll all thanks to you!!!!

 

There's no more room on mine

[murraycraven]

I am not as high on Yandle but there is no way PHX offered Yandle straight up for JvR - absolutely no way.

[aziz]

he's been on my FHL since someone in the league cut him

 

 

you're welcome.

[jammer2]

I imagine that the Flyers would have had to have given more for Yandle, and I also don't think Schenn has regressed. In fact, he has looked better in Philly in my mind than he did the last year of his time in Toronto.

 

Unfortunately he hasn't progressed much yet either.

 

Also, two very different games. I'm guessing Holmgren was looking for the in-your-face type of defensive defenseman.

 

When Schenn was drafted he was touted as a hard hitting, nasty defensive specialist. We got the defensive specialist and the hitting, but the part that seems to be lacking is the nastiness. There were some that suggested hidden offensive potential, but I think that was mostly wishful thinking. He was drafted to be a shutdown guy, through and through.

 

I think he still has it in him to be a strong shutdown guy, although not as tough as we were lead to believe.

 

 Part of that "hidden" offensive potential was the way Luke played for the World Jr's team he was on. He was on the top pp for Team Canada and scored on few absolute rockets during that tourny, enough to convince me and many others that he would be at least decent on offense. Guess I was wrong...lol.

[Commander Clueless]

 Part of that "hidden" offensive potential was the way Luke played for the World Jr's team he was on. He was on the top pp for Team Canada and scored on few absolute rockets during that tourny, enough to convince me and many others that he would be at least decent on offense. Guess I was wrong...lol.

 

That's true. I wonder where he put that clapper? Doesn't even seem to try it at all any more. Any time I've seen him shoot in recent memory, it's a wrister.

[murraycraven]

That's true. I wonder where he put that clapper?

 

The one thing that drives me nuts is he ALWAYS double cluthes when trying to shoot.   It also looks like he is ready to fall when taking a slapper.

[radoran]

 Part of that "hidden" offensive potential was the way Luke played for the World Jr's team he was on. He was on the top pp for Team Canada and scored on few absolute rockets during that tourny, enough to convince me and many others that he would be at least decent on offense. Guess I was wrong...lol.

 

Jody Shelley scored two goals for the Rangers against the Flyers.

 

True story.

 

[Commander Clueless]

The one thing that drives me nuts is he ALWAYS double cluthes when trying to shoot.   It also looks like he is ready to fall when taking a slapper.

 

Hey, at least he's trying it in Philly! In Toronto, I have a hard time ever recalling an attempt at a slapshot from him...although that could be memory problems too.

 

If it makes you feel better, the only defenseman on the Leafs now that is even capable of taking a slapshot is Phagoof, and he misses the net 75% of the time.

[jammer2]

That's true. I wonder where he put that clapper? Doesn't even seem to try it at all any more. Any time I've seen him shoot in recent memory, it's a wrister.

 

 I've often wondered the same thing, but I swear I saw him score on a few blistering shots in the WJ'ers....remember thinking wow, a bruiser who can shoot the puck...amazing...we all know how that worked out.