Expect a bidding war for Miller soon

[Buffalo Rick]

I still do not think the Sabres will trade Ryan or let him slip away.  Nolan for one has said they want to build around him.  Very wise choice.  No up side to trading a great goalie like Miller.  We have enough picks, and top notch ones at that.  Look at Vancouver tonight.  Up 2-0 against the Ducks and that lead evaporated quickly with their golden boy Luongo.  The Hawks are ok as Crawford has seemed to have proven himself to be very good.  Or is he?  Hell, with that team in front of you, you are going to look good.  Its the Hawks and Blues and then LA and then everyone else.  I stand pay on the Blues being that good and they are proving it.  Could Ryan Miller wind up there if he was moved?  Well, if he were to go, that and Vancouver are the only two places I would be ok with.  I want one of them to win.  I always liked the Blues.  San Jose I suppose is possible also?  Pittsburgh would want Ryan but I doubt he would want to go there.  Look at that game tonight.  They escaped vs Winnipeg.  Do you think they escape against the mighty Hawks or Blues?  Or even the Kings?  No way.  I want Ryan Miller to stay here and I want him to lead team USA to the Gold medal.  Then he will be happy and will not mind staying.

[Polaris922]

Fleury is outplaying Miller this year, shockingly, but not by a lot. Normally I'd agree with you that the Pens should pursue him if the price was right, but Fleury has been stellar so far.

Having said that, I'm not so sure he's past his post-season cramps so we'll have to wait and see. I just don't think Miller will be worth the asking price when Fleury is playing so well right now.

Yeah he had a struggle against the Jets the other night, but every goalie has bad games. And honestly that was more the defense adjusting to players returning to the lineup than a reflection on Fleury.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Polaris922

[Irishjim]

what kind of a return are you expecting for a 33 year old goalie who is 26th in the league in GAA.. I see a pick and a 3rd line player not much more

[nossagog]

@Hockey Junkie

You would pick one game where the defense left him out to dry and base his play on that???? Wow, holy stat cherry picking batman.  Hey, look, he gave up one goal in each of his wins against the mighty Sharks and Ducks, that's a 1.0 GAA,  HE MUST BE THE BEST GOALTENDER IN THE LEAGUE!   WAHOO, oh damn, never mind, reality set in, I better look at the WHOLE SEASON and not just pick out minute samples.

 

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm NOT happy with the amount of money they pay Fleury as well as his play in some playoffs, but why would the Pens go for Miller?  Their career numbers for save% and GAA almost the same.  Yeah, Fleury's been a roller coaster in the playoffs.  Me personally, sure, I'd like to see Fleury moved. But Miller is not the answer. If they brought him in as backup this year, they just asking to kill Fleury's confidence, and I see no way that they would bring him in as the starter.    Besides, he's going to be 34 next season,  what's he got left? 

 

Which brings me to the one point in your post that was amusing, you think Miller WOULDN'T want to go to the Pens? Are you crazy? He's got what, maybe three years left to his career?  If he's the savior that you think he is, why wouldn't he want to go to the Pens? You think he wouldn't want a chance for the cup?  Or you think he's satisfied going through yet another rebuilt in Buffalo.  I'm not putting Buffalo down, because they ARE rebuilding, but that puts them a few years away from a run at the cup, so the cup isn't going there in Miller's playing time.

 

IMHO, I think Miller will ask to go to a contender at the deadline with his limited trade clause, but it may come down to anyone who has a serious injury to their starter. If they don't trade him, I really can't see him resigning, every player wants to play for the cup, and the Sabres are a little to far away from the cup I think at this point in Miller's career.

[yave1964]

I don't see any type of bidding war at all. The teams that are in contention do not need a goalie, the ones on the bubble, such as the Wings, Leafs and Senators have have a need but big contracts and/or commitments to other goalies that would prevent them from going after Miller. I know Junkie keeps mentioning Miller to California, absolutely no chance at that, all the California clubs have better goalies already.

  I really don't know who would want to give up much of anything for a UFA aging goalie

[Buffalo Rick]

I don't see any type of bidding war at all. The teams that are in contention do not need a goalie, the ones on the bubble, such as the Wings, Leafs and Senators have have a need but big contracts and/or commitments to other goalies that would prevent them from going after Miller. I know Junkie keeps mentioning Miller to California, absolutely no chance at that, all the California clubs have better goalies already.

  I really don't know who would want to give up much of anything for a UFA aging goalie

There you go with this aging thing.  Its absurd.  Broduer is an old goalie. NOT Ryan Miller.  Miller has alot of good years left.  And gee, he is going to start for Team USA, so I guess he really sucks doesn't he?  San Jose could use him big time.  No the Kings and Ducks like who they have but he is better than Hiller al day long.   He is far beter than anyone the Sharks have.   He could be the difference maker for a team like St Louis or Dallas.   Howard is not going to start for the USA team.   Miller will start.  He is the best.  What makes you think for a minute some teams will not be after him? 

[Polaris922]

San Jose has Niemi. Niemi > Miller.

[ruxpin]

I'm sorry, but the reality is that there is no bidding war for Ryan Miller. At this point, he's worth much more to Buffalo as a goalie than as a trade piece.

The reality is that Brodeur isn't what you typically compare. The fact is that 33 IS old. It's not ancient, but it is old when you figure in the length of a contract Miller is going to want. And the price that the Sabres would want... and what hockeyjunkie seems to want... just isn't realistic in today's game.

Again, worth more in Buffalo than anywhere else.

We've learned from Jones, Raanta, Peters, Gus, etc that you can do quite well with young and cheap with the right system.

Sorry, the market just isn't there , and that's the reality of it. There will be no bidding war. There will be crickets.

[yave1964]

@Hockey Junkie

 

  The players (s) involved are only part of the equation. Length of contract, salary cap issues, ect.... all play a factor.

 

  The Wings just signed Howard to a five year deal. He is not going anywhere and while he has been bad this year, his contract means the Wings are not in the market for anyone.

  I have looked at the contenders and their goalies. Clubs who through a combination of goalies they are happy with, goalies who they may not be happy with but their contracts/or the clubs salary cap prevents them from making a move is long indeed. Like Rux mentioned, other clubs have found their backups, guys stuck in the minors to have been adequate or even surprisingly good.

  THE ENTIRE LIST OF CONTENDERS OR NEAR CONTENDERS WHO MAY BE IN A POSITION TO MAKE A MOVE FOR MILLER.

 

The Winnipeg Jets. If they consider themselves to be real contenders Miller makes a certain amount of sense. Pavelec has made Howard seem like George Vezina, Montoya is an AHL starter trapped in an NHL body. If they could work out a deal for Miller he might be one of the few players who would not complain about being in the Manitoba barrens, I personally think Evander Kane would be a bit much to give for Miller unless they knew Miller would sign long term and were willing to hang their fortunes upon him, but the two teams do kind of line up trade wise.

 

 Dallas has been mentioned. I am not a fan of Lehtonen, he is a good goalie, kind of a Miller lite but he may not be the solution he also is not really the problem in big D.

 

  That is it. If something could be worked out with Miller to Winnipeg the Sabres need to jump on it. An NHL player, a mid level first rounder to a high second rounder also is about the best he is worth at this point and ONLY if he can be resigned to an acceptable deal.

[jammer2]

  The way I see it.....the Sabres are a horrible team and at least 3-4 years away from the young talent developing to the point where they are true contenders. Can you really expect a 36-38 year old Miller to still be playing solid hockey at that point....I say NO. The move here is to trade him, and help building that core and adding to the fine young talent they have been accumulating.

[nossagog]

  The way I see it.....the Sabres are a horrible team and at least 3-4 years away from the young talent developing to the point where they are true contenders. Can you really expect a 36-38 year old Miller to still be playing solid hockey at that point....I say NO. The move here is to trade him, and help building that core and adding to the fine young talent they have been accumulating.

@jammer2

I can see this as something the Sabres would want, keep him, draft the best goalie there is and let him learn under Miller for what's going to be a few more lean years.  But I don't think that is what Miller is going to want, he's already gone through many a bad year, unless he truely loves Buffalo and wants to be a Sabre for life.

[ruxpin]

The way I see it.....the Sabres are a horrible team and at least 3-4 years away from the young talent developing to the point where they are true contenders. Can you really expect a 36-38 year old Miller to still be playing solid hockey at that point....I say NO. The move here is to trade him, and help building that core and adding to the fine young talent they have been accumulating.

I agree, but I don't think they have a dance partner. Not one willing to spend what the sabres want and certainly not enough to create anything that could remotely be described as a "bidding war."

Like yave said, maybe Winnipeg. Maybe Miller decides like Bryz that you happily go where the job is. Nothing against Winnipeg but I don't think that's ideally where Miller wants to go. So what does Winnipeg give up for what they may perceive as a rental?

And why does a team like Winnipeg want a rental anyway when they, realistically aren't really close (boring ass team).

Dallas is a team that might actually do such a thing. They aren't close either, but they are not above a splashy trade. I just don't think goaltending is really their biggest concern.

I just really don't see anything resembling a bidding war. Certainly move him if you can but when the trade in value of an asset falls below the value of keeping it, you need to start considering keeping it.

[jammer2]

@ruxpin  I could see the Stars being a dance partner, if Letfourin continues his simply dreadful play...he has outright stunk in the past weeks, letting in 5-7 GGA in many games. The Jets are also a possibility, should they be in and around the last playoff spot at the deadline time...which is what I think will be the case.

[yave1964]

@jammer2

LETFOURIN!!!! OMG I can honestly say that I have not heard that one before!! Bwaaahhaaaahaaaa!!

[yave1964]

I really think Miller could help the Wings this season if Howard does not get it together. I am hoping his 45 save win the other night is a sign of things to come, but lets face it is was his first win since the first of November so he needs more than one game to prove it is for real. As a rental, maybe the monster and a first rounder knowing that Howard would be pushed hard to hold his starting job, and that if he did not Miller could be resigned and Howard bought out.  The problem is the Wings are so damn conservative and would never in a million years make this type of George Steinbrenner deal. It would make for a very interesting second half tho.....

[jammer2]

@jammer2

LETFOURIN!!!! OMG I can honestly say that I have not heard that one before!! Bwaaahhaaaahaaaa!!

 

ha ha...somebody tagged him with that a few years back and it stuck .....lol!~

[flyercanuck]

ha ha...somebody tagged him with that a few years back and it stuck .....lol!~

 

Radoran if I my memory serves me correct (which it rarely does).

[ruxpin]

@ruxpin  I could see the Stars being a dance partner, if Letfourin continues his simply dreadful play...he has outright stunk in the past weeks, letting in 5-7 GGA in many games. The Jets are also a possibility, should they be in and around the last playoff spot at the deadline time...which is what I think will be the case.

 

 

Okay, so let's play "Let's Make A Deal."   Because I'm still operating under the premise that Buffalo doesn't get as much as what is being assumed in this thread.

 

If you're Winnipeg, Pavelec is under contract through 16/17.at a $3.9M cap hit but an increasing dollar amount to $4.75M by the last year of his contract.   Should they trade for Miller, what do they do with that?  I can't imagine Buffalo would want that kind of money coming back if they're in a rebuild.  Clearly it's less than what they've been paying Miller, but I still think that's about $2M more than what the Sabres want to be paying a goalie right now.   So the Jets have Miller and Pavelec.  If they get Miller signed and he's not just a rental, do they use a buyout on Pavelec (I don't pay enough attention to the Jets--boring ass team--do they still have a buyout?).      And what do they trade for the potential rental to get a very average nondescript team into the playoffs?     Do they trade Kane if they really think they're making a playoff run?   I say no, unless they really want him out.  A couple prospects and a pick or two?   For a team on the lower side of the bubble, I don't know if that's a wise use of resources.   Maybe.

 

Dallas.  They have a similar problem.  Lehtonen (suck or not) is signed through 17/18 with a $5.9M cap hit.  Surely Buffalo isn't taking him coming back.  I suppose a buyout.   But if they're buying out, they need to think about what they're offering Miller to keep him.   The Cap is going up, so I guess Cap concerns aren't really an issue here, but real dollars might be.   Paying out Lehtonen plus paying Miller similar to what he's making now *could* make filling other needs cumbersome.  Maybe not.   I still actually think Dallas is probably the best bet if they're going to buyout Lehtonen can make a change. I just think you have Kari under contract until 34.  Stick with it and don't resign at that point.

 

But what do THEY give up?   Roster player?  Prospects/picks?  In Dallas' case, they may actually have a better shot of signing Miller so they may actually be in more of a position to ante up.  And I think the playoffs are slightly more realistic in their case.    

 

So I think maybe Dallas, but they still need Winnipeg to do more than simply inquire or kick the tires before you see anything resembling a "bidding war." 

 

Actually, despite the fact they JUST signed Smith, if I were Phoenix I'd be looking at it.  It gets Miller further out west near his wife, is warm climate, and Phoenix may actually need a goalie.  If they did, I buyout Smith if they still have that ability and go from there.    

 

The problem with this buyout stuff is it does not help these teams work the cap THIS year.   Both Dallas and Phoenix have about $4.2M space at the moment, so it's workable probably. Winnepeg has only $1.8M so they'd have to send salary back to Buffalo.

 

Just saying, there might be some interest out there, but the situation for Buffalo is not ideal.  With the cap being lower this year, it's a bad year for Buffalo to have to deal.  I just don't see the "bidding war" that gets them 2 roster players, a first round pick or two, and a prospect.  

 

Maybe if you're Buffalo you take what you can get if you don't think he's going to resign.  If you can sign him, then you have to think about whether he is worth more in your net than the reduced trade value that I think they'll end up seeing.

[ruxpin]

I really think Miller could help the Wings this season if Howard does not get it together. I am hoping his 45 save win the other night is a sign of things to come, but lets face it is was his first win since the first of November so he needs more than one game to prove it is for real. As a rental, maybe the monster and a first rounder knowing that Howard would be pushed hard to hold his starting job, and that if he did not Miller could be resigned and Howard bought out.  The problem is the Wings are so damn conservative and would never in a million years make this type of George Steinbrenner deal. It would make for a very interesting second half tho.....

 

Yeah, that kind of move would be out of character for them.   Plus, they are getting to the point where they have to think about preserving assets for the future, no?

[yave1964]

Yeah, that kind of move would be out of character for them.   Plus, they are getting to the point where they have to think about preserving assets for the future, no?

  Actually I think Howard, as much as I complain about him will bounce back and be strong in the second half which is his norm.

 As far as preserving assets the farm is deeper for the Wings than I can remember it at any point since the early nineties. Guys like Tatar, Andersson and Nyquist are already regulars and players such as Marchenko, Jurco, Pulkkinen, Anthony Mantha, Jarnkrok, Oullet, Mrazek and Almquist are all top tier prospects and most will play regular shifts for the Wings no later than next year, with Mantha getting his first taste as a pro likely with the Grand Rapids Griffins.

  I see this as the last gasp of the old guys, players such as Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Alfie, Eaves and likely Kyle Quincey are likely all gone. Youth will be served in a good way, and with the cap going up signing a big name free agent or two is a realistic option for the club.

  Miller is not old, he is too damn old for a five or six year deal but he could help the Wings if Howard does not bounce back. With as deep of a farm as we have, I missed mentioning a half dozen players who are quite capable of a lower end role already like Glendening and Lashoff to name a few, giving up a first to fix our biggest concern an light a fire under Miller does not seem unrealistic to me. Again, the Wings are the most conservative organization in the game today, we usually go to war with what we have at the beginning of the year and let the chips fall where they may. I really could see a case for acquiring Miller but would fall over if Holland actually did it.

[jammer2]

@ruxpin  Well thought out post, it basically convinced me to reach the same conclusion as you, Buffalo is gonna have a tough time finding a trade partner, and might have to temper down their expectations if they do move him.

[Buffalo Rick]

I really think Miller could help the Wings this season if Howard does not get it together. I am hoping his 45 save win the other night is a sign of things to come, but lets face it is was his first win since the first of November so he needs more than one game to prove it is for real. As a rental, maybe the monster and a first rounder knowing that Howard would be pushed hard to hold his starting job, and that if he did not Miller could be resigned and Howard bought out.  The problem is the Wings are so damn conservative and would never in a million years make this type of George Steinbrenner deal. It would make for a very interesting second half tho.....

Detroit scares me the most for stealing Miller. Miller is from there, his mother is there.  Yikes.  I hope not.  If you do go after him, he is going to cost

[jammer2]

@Hockey Junkie   Just wondering out loud, but I think Tatar a 2nd round pick, and a mid level prospect get the job done.

[Buffalo Rick]

@Hockey Junkie   Just wondering out loud, but I think Tatar a 2nd round pick, and a mid level prospect get the job done.

Dream on.   For Miller?  Never.  He would chose Detroit first as he grew up a Wings fan and his mother lives there.  He is a native but he also loves Buffalo.  And he wants to win in Buffalo.  In this day and age rebuilding is done much faster and Buffalo has the ammunition to do so.  And a coach with alot of fire.  I say Miller gets the Gold and stays put

[nossagog]

Dream on.   For Miller?  Never.  He would chose Detroit first as he grew up a Wings fan and his mother lives there.  He is a native but he also loves Buffalo.  And he wants to win in Buffalo.  In this day and age rebuilding is done much faster and Buffalo has the ammunition to do so.  And a coach with alot of fire.  I say Miller gets the Gold and stays put

 

Buffalo is my second fav team(other than whoever's playing the Flyers tonight), but I just don't see them getting much for him.  In the end they may take less just to get something for him if they think he's gone in free agency.