off_the_post Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Being out of the local Philly market I am forced to watch a lot of visitor feeds on center ice. In doing so I have witnessed a number of announcers comment that Raffl is a solid player. Just recently in the LA game the announcers were commenting on his defensive positioning, blocking shots (not that I think he is a pure shot blocker) PK work, good on his skates and is able to cycle the puck in the offensive zone. Now I am paraphrasing but I recall a number of situations like this over the year. I find it interestings that a guy can go from a 2nd tier league in Austria to the NHL. Good on him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Raffl has shown he can play on the first line wing as well as fourth line center. He is relatively fast often winning the puck battles along the boards with on spot on pass to a teammate. He currently plays the PK and one has to expect he will get some time on the PP also. Raffl is quickly becoming one of my favorite Flyers on this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Being out of the local Philly market I am forced to watch a lot of visitor feeds on center ice. In doing so I have witnessed a number of announcers comment that Raffl is a solid player. Just recently in the LA game the announcers were commenting on his defensive positioning, blocking shots (not that I think he is a pure shot blocker) PK work, good on his skates and is able to cycle the puck in the offensive zone. Now I am paraphrasing but I recall a number of situations like this over the year. I find it interestings that a guy can go from a 2nd tier league in Austria to the NHL. Good on him.He was actually in a 2nd tier league in Sweden, but point taken. I actually think it's pretty remarkable that he plays as well as he does. The thing that really impresses me is that he always seems to be in the right place at the right time. His skills could use some refinement but the tools are are there. And the toolbox to use them seems to be there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 You have to give Homer credit for getting this kid... he can play and can really play in all situations. Was a great find and he is the best interview in the entire locker room. The kid is funny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off_the_post Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 He was actually in a 2nd tier league in Sweden, but point taken. I actually think it's pretty remarkable that he plays as well as he does. The thing that really impresses me is that he always seems to be in the right place at the right time. His skills could use some refinement but the tools are are there. And the toolbox to use them seems to be there too.Thanks for the clarification. That makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
off_the_post Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 You have to give Homer credit for getting this kid... he can play and can really play in all situations. Was a great find and he is the best interview in the entire locker room. The kid is funny...Interesting. I don't I've seen him interviewed. Again watching the other teams' feed I actually don't see many interviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan4ever Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 @murraycraven I agree with you 100%! I am REALLY learning to like this kid alot. I thought some of the funnier interviews were with and when his father was here. I think I commented that on another thread. Homer sometimes does find some diamonds in the rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Homer is a very good evaluator of talent. Period. There can be very little debate of that statement. I wish that was his only role with the team, the contract offering and salary cap managing doesn't suit him well. All one had to do was watch games to see that Raffl had good wheels , a good compete level, and a good hockey IQ. Whether that showed up on the score sheet was TBD, however guys like him and Matt Read are good guys to have on your hockey club.Good for other teams announcers for being able to state the obvious, And good for the flyers fans who can hear it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Homer is a very good evaluator of talent. Period. There can be very little debate of that statement. I don't for sure in this case, but I think Simon Nolet has generally lead the Flyers scouting in Europe. I would guess he had something to do with Raffl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I like Raffl a lot, but can anyone really say that he's more than, say, a Ville Leino? He's got five whole points in 16 games this calendar year - only two of which have been Giroux-related. Europeans, especially Swedish/Finnish league players, are typically very defensively responsible and can step up in certain circumstances. Keeping that high level of play over an extended period can be an issue. He's an RFA so should come cheap again next year. What would any of you look to extend him longer term for? $2M over/under? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I like Raffl a lot, but can anyone really say that he's more than, say, a Ville Leino? Yes, definitely. Much better all around player than Leino. Leino was really a one-trick pony, he was pretty good at that trick with the Flyers but that was all there ever was. Raffl is a completely different kind of player. As noted, he can play in all situations. Nobody ever said that about Leino. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 @radoranI think 2 million per year is the absolute top end for what I would pay him for playing at his current level . Ideally I'd try it sign him for 1.5 for 3 years, a decent bridge contract to see if he can develop a scoring touch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 @murraycraven I agree with you 100%! I am REALLY learning to like this kid alot. I thought some of the funnier interviews were with and when his father was here. I think I commented that on another thread. Homer sometimes does find some diamonds in the rough. that was one of my favortie ones... the kid has a great personality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I find it interestings that a guy can go from a 2nd tier league in Austria to the NHL. Good on hi Yes he has started slow but he had to adapt to the NA way of playing and i believe he will continue to grow. One of my only complaints is he don't shoot enough i think it was last game he score was it the Ducks he had one total shot during the whole game and he scored on it. So i'd just like him to get it on net more not always look to pass. It is why i'd like to see them only trade Mezz and Downie and let Raffl play the wing with Coots and Read...that could be a shutdown line right there....just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) I like Raffl a lot, but can anyone really say that he's more than, say, a Ville Leino? NO.......Leino never was sound defensively a was kind of slow or took a minute to get up his speed. But no comparisons for myself. Raffl just needs to play on the 3rd with Coots and Read and just trade Downie out of town. Raffl will continue to grow i would just like him to shoot more the other night his only shot he scored on...so just put it on net more... Edited February 3, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Leino had a 19 goal/53 point season for the Flyers and was +14. Raffl's on pace for 10/31 (rounded up) - Even. Jus' sayin' I don't think the comparison is as far fetched as a lot of you seem to. Again, I like the player but there is an occasional tendency to overvalue what is in front of us. @radoranI think 2 million per year is the absolute top end for what I would pay him for playing at his current level . Ideally I'd try it sign him for 1.5 for 3 years, a decent bridge contract to see if he can develop a scoring touch. So you're saying six years, $4.5M per? I like that number and it should be attractive to Raffl unless he sees himself like a lot of people around here seem to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Leino had a 19 goal/53 point season for the Flyers and was +14. Raffl's on pace for 10/31 (rounded up) - Even. There's more to these things than just points, as someone pointed out to me recently in another thread. As has already been mentioned, Raffl is WAY better defensively than Leino. Fits in on any line. Has a noticeably higher hockey IQ imo. Not saying he should get 6 years at $6 million per, just that he's the kind of player that good teams need. Ville was expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 There's more to these things than just points, as someone pointed out to me recently in another thread. As has already been mentioned, Raffl is WAY better defensively than Leino. Fits in on any line. Has a noticeably higher hockey IQ imo. Not saying he should get 6 years at $6 million per, just that he's the kind of player that good teams need. Ville was expendable. Ville was absolutely expendable and triply so for the number he signed for. This isn't about complaining about the past, it's about evaluating the present. I'm curious about how the player who is an even +/- is obviously WAY better defensively than the guy who put up the +14... I don't recall a lot of concerns about Leino's "defense" when he was here - could have been related to the fact he was playing with Briere and Hartnell - two guys not necessary noted for their defensive acumen. Again, I like Raffl and certainly expect him to be here next season. But does his "upside" approach a 20/50 player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm curious about how the player who is an even +/- is obviously WAY better defensively than the guy who put up the +14... Not to be smarmy about it, but watching the players in question goes a long way... I don't recall a lot of concerns about Leino's "defense" when he was here - could have been related to the fact he was playing with Briere and Hartnell - two guys not necessary noted for their defensive acumen. I think you basically answered your own question there. Again, I like Raffl and certainly expect him to be here next season. But does his "upside" approach a 20/50 player? I prefer to think in terms of value to a team rather than "upside". I think Raffl is more valuable to the Flyers than Leino was. I think potentially he is a 20/50 guy, in addition to being good defensively and more versatile offensively. Or, to put it more concisely, I think he's a better all around hockey player than Leino. I'd prefer to have Raffl over Leino at the same price, whatever that price is. And I doubt there will be much of a problem re-signing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) I'm curious about how the player who is an even +/- is obviously WAY better defensively than the guy who put up the +14... Ok then you're talking about a player who is 30 and i just checked is a.............GULP -11.......i'll take the 25 year old kid who is even and can play anywhere...thank you. 10 goals over the last 3 years those are Rosehill numbers!!! Oh yeah i've scored as many goals as Leino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited February 3, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I prefer to think in terms of value to a team rather than "upside". I think Raffl is more valuable to the Flyers than Leino was. I think potentially he is a 20/50 guy, in addition to being good defensively and more versatile offensively. Or, to put it more concisely, I think he's a better all around hockey player than Leino. I'd prefer to have Raffl over Leino at the same price, whatever that price is. And I doubt there will be much of a problem re-signing him. It's not like I haven't watched both players extensively (and also Leino up in Buffalo, too). There won't be a problem re-signing Raffl - he's RFA. They need to qualify him for probably less than $1M. I was asking if/what they should look for a longer deal at and I like mojo's $1.5M for three year idea. I'd be thrilled if Raffl hit 20/50, but I wouldn't put any money on it and depending on the odds might put some up against it. Again, he's dropped off a cliff in the past 16 games (5 points) and the vaunted "chemistry" with Giroux's line has produced two points in those 16 games since New Year's (plus three from other sources). The nature of the deal will be important because I believe Raffl will be UFA eligible after his next signing(?). He's 25 Ok then you're talking about a player who is 30 and i just checked is a.............GULP -11.......i'll take the 25 year old kid who is even and can play anywhere...thank you. 10 goals over the last 3 years those are Rosehill numbers!!! Oh yeah i've scored as many goals as Leino!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You've scored 19 in an NHL season? What's your hockeydb page? Raffl's all of five years younger than Leino and Leino's +14 season was at 28. Raffl will be 26 next year. This isn't a spring chicken and it's not Matt Read, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) You've scored 19 in an NHL season? No we are neck and neck this year i have as many...ZERO!!!!!!! plus my +/- is better i'm even!!!!!!!!!!! No ugly -11 behind my name!!!!!!! Edited February 3, 2014 by OccamsRazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 No we are neck and neck this year i have as many...ZERO!!!!!!! plus my +/- is better i'm even!!!!!!!!!!! No ugly -11 behind my name!!!!!!! So he still has 40 more career NHL goals than you? Rather than play Ville Pinata - I've got my bats ready - why not come up with some reasons why Raffl is so obviously a better player? Preferably that don't involve "can play anywhere" after he's virtually disappeared in the past 16 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Yes, definitely. Much better all around player than Leino. Leino was really a one-trick pony, he was pretty good at that trick with the Flyers but that was all there ever was. Raffl is a completely different kind of player. As noted, he can play in all situations. Nobody ever said that about Leino. i'd say patrick thoreson is the better comparison, but raffl has the hands to keep him in the NHL that patrick didn't. the work ethic and even skating reminds me of him, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 why not come up with some reasons why Raffl is so obviously a better player? We did but you chose to ignore it...he is better defensively no matter which line he played for juggled to eventually to everyone of them at some time during this season......we're you sleep when he got put on the 1st line and jumped started G and Jake???? All they did was set career highs in points streaks.......both of them...thanks to Raffl....they didn't even do that with the Great Jagr skating with them!!!!! Channeling my inner Rosehause...NEXT QUESTION!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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