Flyers interested in Hainsey

[brelic]

I know this is Eklund, but I think the point is a good one for discussion.

Here's what Ek had to say:

 

I am hearing that the Flyers are very much interested in picking up Carolina's Ron Hainsey as a puck-moving rental for the rest of the season. The sticking points: 1) Carolina is still very much in the playoff chase and Hainsey has been a good player on a shallow blueline and 2) the Canes ideally want an NHL roster puck-moving defenseman in return and they do not currently want to do a rental-for-rental swap such as acquiring fellow impending UFA Andrej Meszaros (despite his recent goal-scoring streak). They would like someone who may be in Carolina for longer than this season, but Philly is reluctant to move a player like Erik Gustafsson for a rental.

What do you think of the idea that the Flyers would be interested in picking up a rental?

I don't know, to me, it sounds once again like they just don't get it. It's just more proof that they don't trust the players they already have in the organization. It smacks of "make the playoffs and anything can happen," mentality.

But, maybe there's a different angle?

[jammer2]

@brelic   I say, let these guys sink or swim on their own. Unless we are giving away a Mez ( the type of player the Canes don't want........rental and pending UFA) they should stand pat. Hainsey would be an upgrade for the Flyers, but I don't want to give up any assets to help out a defense that has been horrid for the most part. I just don't see Hainsey making that big of a difference. He would help tip the balance from skaters to pluggers on defense, but at what price?  I would not be willing to even part with a 2nd rounder at this point, so unless the Canes want to move him for a 3rd or 4th (and I don't see that happening)...just walk away. I'd rather promote Oliver Lauridsen and call it a day.

 

 Why does Homer always feel the need to give up assets for average to below average d- men at this time of year? Hainsey is better than the Huskins types we have been acquiring, but I just don't how he would make a huge difference. How about playing Gus more and saving the assets? To logical I guess, so it won't happen.

[Samifan]

How about playing Gus more and saving the assets?

 

Jammer,

That's a fresh perspective. Stop it!

 

Yours Truely,

Ed Snider

[hf101]

If Hainsey is an upgrade why didn't we sign or at least make an offer to him this summer?  He was available, instead we signed Gill.

 

I say NO to Hainsey.

[jammer2]

If Hainsey is an upgrade why didn't we sign or at least make an offer to him this summer?  He was available, instead we signed Gill.

 

I say NO to Hainsey.

 

 If I was to venture a guess, we didn't sign him because he ended up getting a one year deal for 2 mill, where Gill is getting the vet minimum (I would assume, have not looked at his deal).  He probably ended up making 1 mill more than the Flyers were willing to pay. They might be interested now because it would be a pro-rated cap hit with no strings attached ie pending UFA status.

[brelic]

@brelic   I say, let these guys sink or swim on their own. Unless we are giving away a Mez ( the type of player the Canes don't want........rental and pending UFA) they should stand pat. Hainsey would be an upgrade for the Flyers, but I don't want to give up any assets to help out a defense that has been horrid for the most part. I just don't see Hainsey making that big of a difference. He would help tip the balance from skaters to pluggers on defense, but at what price?  I would not be willing to even part with a 2nd rounder at this point, so unless the Canes want to move him for a 3rd or 4th (and I don't see that happening)...just walk away. I'd rather promote Oliver Lauridsen and call it a day.

 

 Why does Homer always feel the need to give up assets for average to below average d- men at this time of year? Hainsey is better than the Huskins types we have been acquiring, but I just don't how he would make a huge difference. How about playing Gus more and saving the assets? To logical I guess, so it won't happen.

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, Gus has 2 fewer points than Hainsey in HALF the games. Gus is +11, Hainsey is -9. And if Gus needs to work on his defensive game, it's still ahead of Hainsey's.

The Flyers have the NHL's most expensive blueline with TEN, yes TEN defensemen under contract. And we want to add another one? On top of that, we want to add yet another defensively suspect defenseman???

Pronger

Schenn

Timo

Streit

Gus

Bourdon

Coburn

Grossmann

Gill

Meszaros

Are we stockpiling them? What am I missing? What would Hainsey give us that we don't currently have or that would make such a difference as to make us a legitimate playoff contender?

[JackStraw]

No way would I trade Gus for a rental.

[jammer2]

No way would I trade Gus for a rental.

 

 If Homer pulled that crap, I'd go ballistic!!!  Not even he could be *that* stupid....could he??

[The Quigster]

Would getting Hainsey guarantee a cup? Last night's game was a nice result of a team effort,every body contributed,had fun,entertained us fans,won the game. What else could you want? Maybe it's time to leave Timmonen in the press box? Chief is definitely doing something right!

[Jam1986]

no gus

[murraycraven]

What Jammer said... let these guys sink or swim on their own.  Gus is playing well and it is time to stop w/ the rental players.   Give the kids a chance to develop and get some experience.   There is no single traed that will make them a contender so I would be happy if Homer put away the picks and rentals for experience w/ the youth. 

[fanaticV3.0]

I know this is Eklund, but I think the point is a good one for discussion.

Here's what Ek had to say:

 

What do you think of the idea that the Flyers would be interested in picking up a rental?

I don't know, to me, it sounds once again like they just don't get it. It's just more proof that they don't trust the players they already have in the organization. It smacks of "make the playoffs and anything can happen," mentality.

But, maybe there's a different angle?

 

I think this is a reach. Unless they were parting with one of their core players, I think it's nothing more than a team trying to get better.

 

If he cost them nothing, I don't care if they went for him or not. If he costs anything more than nothing, I strongly object to the idea of trading for him.

[OccamsRazor]

What do you think of the idea that the Flyers would be interested in picking up a rental?

 

Hopefully to trade Mezz for him and hell i'd trade Grossmann too for him. Free up some money and two contracts.

[OccamsRazor]

Hainsey would be an upgrade for the Flyers, but I don't want to give up any assets to help out a defense that has been horrid for the most part

 

Amen. I'd trade them Mezz and even Downie and hell why you at it if they want him Grossmann too call up Ollie and Alt. Why not the 3 bums i mentioned just don't fit here. Hell no i'm not trading my 2nd best Dman...that is with Kimmo out no....pass. Now for Ryan Murray i'm listening...and no i don't mean straight up.

Edited February 4, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[brelic]

I think this is a reach. Unless they were parting with one of their core players, I think it's nothing more than a team trying to get better.

 

If he cost them nothing, I don't care if they went for him or not. If he costs anything more than nothing, I strongly object to the idea of trading for him.

Maybe. But I see it as bypassing what we have in our organization. Sometimes, you need to consciously decide to go with what you have knowing that if it doesn't work out the first time, at least your assets are gaining valuable experience, and if it still doesn't work out, then you can make more informed decision on when to cut your losses. Getting Hainsey doesn't completely preclude that, but it would certainly cut someone's time down, and that would probably be Gus.

I see it in the same light as our goaltending situation. Personally, I would be excited to see Heeter in a backup role next year, showing us what he's got. ANd it would seem natural to have Stolarz move to the Phantoms because he's done with the OHL. Worst case scenario, Heeter's just not a very good backup goalie. But knowing how the Flyers operate, that won't happen. They will go and sign a veteran backup. Which is all fine and dandy, but in that scenario our homegrown guys never get a chance to show what they can do.

Guys like Elliot, Bishop, Scrivens, Niemi, Crawford... they were later draft picks or undrafted, and their organizations gave them a chance over many seasons to see what they had. It took parts of 4 seasons for Elliot to become what he is now.

And other guys like Martin Jones (LA) and Stalock (SJ) get a chance because of injuries. They're showing that they have some potential.

So I say forget Hainsey. If they Flyers need a puck moving defenseman, have faith in Gus or call up someone from the farm. The worst case scenario is that they figure out that Gus can't cut the mustard, and they move on. Because this ain't a Stanley Cup winning roster with Hainsey.

But that would be a fresh perspective.

[OccamsRazor]

So I say forget Hainsey

 

I was just hoping for a change of scenery type swap maybe say Mezz for Hainsey or hell even for Grossmann.

 

That is it.

 

Other than that great points by you i'd like the Flyer to try to look within first....but...well hard to call someone up unless someone is traded or waived....the corner Homer painted himself into.

 

On the backup goalie i have 3 possible options instead of Heeter i'd like a nice tandem of Heeter and Stollie for the Phantoms so if possible how about Khudobin, Griess or even Fasth...not even sure if they are available....just brain storming. 

Edited February 4, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

I think this is a reach. Unless they were parting with one of their core players, I think it's nothing more than a team trying to get better.

 

If he cost them nothing, I don't care if they went for him or not. If he costs anything more than nothing, I strongly object to the idea of trading for him.

 

They could have "tried to get better" over the summer when Hainsey was available. He's a pending UFA. This isn't a long-term pickup, this is clearly a "rental".

 

As Carolina is all of three points behind the Flyers with three games in hand, they're certainly not going to give him away to their division rival "for nothing."

 

So, I'm with you - if it costs them anything it's not really worth it.

[OccamsRazor]

So, I'm with you - if it costs them anything it's not really worth it.

 

So would you do a Mezz for Hainsey swap...kind of all i'd want to give up for him.

 

No prospects just changes of scenery for the two them....then pair Hainsey with Streit since he needs a guy who is better in the defensive zone to help him cause God knows Mezz struggles in his own zone and two guys doing that isn't good. Steit and Mezz isn't a good pair and well i don't think anyone pairs up with him.

[radoran]

So would you do a Mezz for Hainsey swap...kind of all i'd want to give up for him.

 

No prospects just changes of scenery for the two them....then pair Hainsey with Streit since he needs a guy who is better in the defensive zone to help him cause God knows Mezz struggles in his own zone and two guys doing that isn't good. Steit and Mezz isn't a good pair and well i don't think anyone pairs up with him.

 

Given that Carolina's "wants" were outlined in the first post in the thread, and they don't include trading straight up for an overpriced UFA that nobody wants, I don't see the efficacy in detailing what boatload of fetid dingo's kidneys "we'd" be willing to send over to Carolina. To answer the question, yes, I'd trade Meszaros for him.

But... what does Carolina want!?!? And, more importantly, what do they want to trade this piece to a division rival they are effectively tied with - if not "games in hand" ahead of - in the playoff race?

[murraycraven]

This is a "EK .00000000000000001" on the rumor chart.  

[OccamsRazor]

fetid dingo's kidneys "we'd" be willing to send over to Carolina.

 

 

You and your dingo kidneys is that a favorite dish of yours and how do you serve that over rice?? I'll pass....i don't care for organs.

 

 

 

 

 

But... what does Carolina want!?!? And, more importantly, what do they want to trade this piece to a division rival they are effectively tied with - if not "games in hand" ahead of - in the playoff race?

 

That my friend i can't answer shoot Ek an Email he is the inside scoop and can maybe provide further light on this subject. For that matter why does anyone trade...i can't see inside Rutherford's head 

Edited February 4, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[radoran]

That my friend i can't answer shoot Ek an Email he is the inside scoop and can maybe provide further light on this subject. For that matter why does anyone trade...i can't see inside Rutherford's head 

 

His "inside scoop" is on the first post where they specifically say they don't want Meszaros

 

Of course, being Eklund, his "inside scoop" also is used to tend the cat box.

 

Dingo's kidneys

[OccamsRazor]

His "inside scoop" is on the first post where they specifically say they don't want Meszaros

 

Of course they don't it is a game of poker and Jimmy is hoping Homer blinks first....i on the other hand hope he don't....overpaid that is i'd like trade but nothing for prospects or crazy picks the change of scenery trade of which is discussed...or just ride this dump truck to end and fix the holes before the draft or offseason.

 

MMMMmmmmm dingo kidneys thank you sir may i have another!!!!!!!!!

Edited February 4, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[fanaticV3.0]

Maybe. But I see it as bypassing what we have in our organization. Sometimes, you need to consciously decide to go with what you have knowing that if it doesn't work out the first time, at least your assets are gaining valuable experience, and if it still doesn't work out, then you can make more informed decision on when to cut your losses. Getting Hainsey doesn't completely preclude that, but it would certainly cut someone's time down, and that would probably be Gus.

I see it in the same light as our goaltending situation. Personally, I would be excited to see Heeter in a backup role next year, showing us what he's got. ANd it would seem natural to have Stolarz move to the Phantoms because he's done with the OHL. Worst case scenario, Heeter's just not a very good backup goalie. But knowing how the Flyers operate, that won't happen. They will go and sign a veteran backup. Which is all fine and dandy, but in that scenario our homegrown guys never get a chance to show what they can do.

Guys like Elliot, Bishop, Scrivens, Niemi, Crawford... they were later draft picks or undrafted, and their organizations gave them a chance over many seasons to see what they had. It took parts of 4 seasons for Elliot to become what he is now.

And other guys like Martin Jones (LA) and Stalock (SJ) get a chance because of injuries. They're showing that they have some potential.

So I say forget Hainsey. If they Flyers need a puck moving defenseman, have faith in Gus or call up someone from the farm. The worst case scenario is that they figure out that Gus can't cut the mustard, and they move on. Because this ain't a Stanley Cup winning roster with Hainsey.

But that would be a fresh perspective.

 

If you are a bubble or even lower seed team gearing up for a PO run, you don't strengthen your roster with somebody who has 0 NHL experience. If they are going to take a chance on a completely unproven kid, it's not going to be out of the blue as they are approaching the POs.

[brelic]

If you are a bubble or even lower seed team gearing up for a PO run, you don't strengthen your roster with somebody who has 0 NHL experience. If they are going to take a chance on a completely unproven kid, it's not going to be out of the blue as they are approaching the POs.

That's true. But it's not like we have zero puck-moving defensemen. Streit is supposed to be that guy, and he's getting more comfortable as the season wears on. He looks infinitely better than he did in the first few months. And Timonen also provides that, albeit he has lost a step.

Gus has played 7 career NHL playoff games, and *surprisingly*, that is 7 more than Hainsey. He's never played an NHL playoff game... I really didn't expect that, especially that he's played for 5 different teams.

Anyway, I'm not convinced that Hainsey makes this team much better. Deadline acquisitions simply don't have the luxury of time to adjust and gel with a team; that's why it seldom works out the way the team imagined. Gus is finally starting to show some consistency in his level of play, and he may even be helping Schenn to stabilize his game. So that's a plus.

Like you mentioned earlier, if he can be had for nothing of true value, it doesn't really affect the future (and it seems they are not interested in Mez). But I think it robs our young players of the confidence and experience they gain by being counted on, even if they fail the first few times. It might not seem like a big deal, but I think these little knocks add up over time.