Milbury makes an a## of himself again..

[ruxpin]

I don't know how I feel about it. I don't think it looks particularly violent or intentional (in terms of trying to kill Toews). It looks more like incidental contact with the head because Toews is crouched down a little and Orpik is tall.

 

 

That's kind of where I am.  I don't see anything that indicates intent to do anything other than deliver a hit.   I still see shoulder to head, though.  I will, however, readily agree with @B21 that the league doesn't even take a second look at it.

[Mad Dog]

@B21

 

I watched the hit...  *I* think it ws a clean hit, albeit borderline clean.

 

The only problem I have is the league is just being true to themsleves and show very little consistency.  I hate to sound homerish on this, but I agree with FC - if Rinaldo makes this hit, he goes to the box and gets suspended for at least a game.  I have no doubt in my mind that what would happen.  Again, not so much problem with the hit itslef, but a big problem with inconsitency.  How teh hell are the players going to know what's leagal and what's not when the NHL calls it differently every damn time.

[fanaticV3.0]

Principal point of contact is shoulder to shoulder. Legal hit. 

 

Keith Jones even said so (if others opinions on the hit matter). Heck, even Milbury conceded it was a clean hit.

 

F "principal point of contact", Orpik's shoulder never makes contact with Toews' shoulder period.

 

That being said, I don't think it was intentional.

[fanaticV3.0]

That's kind of where I am.  I don't see anything that indicates intent to do anything other than deliver a hit.   I still see shoulder to head, though.  I will, however, readily agree with @B21 that the league doesn't even take a second look at it.

 

That's because it is shoulder-to-head.

 

I think this was a result of the angle both players were at at the time of contact, not because of a dirty hit.

[Polaris922]

Anybody can see the initial point of contact IS the SHOULDER. I capitalized that because clearly some folks need larger font if they seriously think initial contact was the head. Every official, announcer, and commentator agreed it was the shoulder. I'm surprised anyone here could think otherwise. Any head contact is as Orpik's body rides up the falling Toews as he explodes into the hit.

More to the point... A good write up on it...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/mike-milbury--brooks-oprik-and-the-idiocy-of-retribution-143725598.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Polaris922

[nossagog]

_{Okay, I've watched the Zepruder films, I've read comments, I've drank beer to ponder(not in list of priorities).  Take my throughts with a grain of salt as I am a Pens fan.}

 

_{My end thought on this is a clean hit that resulted in an injury.} 

 

_Reasons:

_{1)  Watch any hockey game, how many times to you see the forward going in to chip the puck deeper along the boards, and then get hammered by a defensemen.   Not how many GAMES do you see it, but how many times in ONE game.  (with forwards plastering defenseman too)}

_{2)  Orpik's body position at the time of the hit is almost 90degrees  to the ice. If you watch the video from the goal line, their actual first contact is with their skates/legs, with Toews leaning into the center of the ice. So he's not leading to the head.}

_{3)  At the time of the hit, this is almost contact along the whole body line}

_{4)  No leading elbow or forearm, they are tucked in.}

_{5) This is not a head shot, for those trying to make is sound so, are you using that a variation on the age old adage by saying " Wow man, he hit him in the head so hard that his shoulder going hurt instead!"}

_{6) The hit is NOT late, if you think so, then you should petition the league to make the words "finishing a check" synonamous with "2 Minute Penalty".  Toews played the puck, and was hit before the puck went even 10 feet, not halfway to the intended recipient of the pass.  As in item one , how many times a game you see a player hit after he's already passed the puck, by a lot longer than this hit.}

 

_{Thoughts on others thoughts(both here and other locations).}

_{1) On Milbury, never mind, he's not worth the thought.}

_{2) On thoughts that Chicago should have retaliated against Orpik.  I'd like to go back and see if these would be the same people who in prior weeks have stated that you shouldn't have to fight after a clean hit.}

_{3) All the argument in this case is because of the result, not the hit.  If Toews gets back up its a great play.}

_{4) If I have a defenseman on my team that DOESN'T make some kind of hit in that situation, I don't want him on my team.  Did you want Orpik to let him go and head for the net?}

_{5) For commenters who state, "well how would you like if someone tried to do that to Cindy?".  They do, everyone "targets the other teams star players". Thinking otherwise is denial.}

_{6) Apcray happens, its a physical game.}

 

_{So do I have NO problems with this hit, actually no,  I do have one.   The only point that I'll conceede to some is that Orpik's body was rising into this hit.   I don't typically go with the "Well his feet didn't leave the ice until after the hit". They whole transfer of energy thing doesn't work out in my mind.   But in this case, as I stated above, he did not drive forward with the shoulder, but kept his body straight up in relation to the ice.  It had nothing to do with Toews SHOULDER injury.}

Edited March 31, 2014 by nossagog

[Polaris922]

Hell if my Bantam defensemen don't make a hit in that position I make sure they hear about it. That's the game.

[goalnut3133]

The only point that I'll conceede to some is that Orpik's body was rising into this hit. 

 

Thanks, Noss, so I wasn't imagining this or mis-reading the timing of the skates leaving the ice (& I'm not gonna drive myself nuts watching the replay a zillion times). I also thought the skates lifted a bit too early for my taste. That coupled with the fact Orpik is a tall dude, & head contact is inevitable, esp with Toews making the humongo mistake of keeping his head down the entire time...this he definitely should know better...a minor leaguer would know better. I don't agree with a comment that if there was no injury as a result, it would have not been a debatable hit. I still think there would be discussion of the hit, injury or not. If there was no incidental (or not) contact to the head, there wouldn't be much discussion, & rightly so.

 

All around good points made on here by everyone.

[Polaris922]

Skates frequently leave the ice on follow through a of legal body checks, particularly when the hit player starts to crumple under the hit. When NBC slow mo's something and Milbury has to swallow his feet were on the ice at contact, it's a moot topic. Done deal.

And as @B21 said, the injury is the shoulder Orpik hit. Not the side hitting the boards, not the head/neck... This hit is so clean it damn near whistles.

[goalnut3133]

All I can say is, I'm just glad it wasn't the Nucks on the receiving end of that check...it would have been a sh** show, a gongfest, what have you....thanks to the likes of Tostito-head Sestito & the immaturity of Kassian (both are 'hit/retaliate first, think second).....shows which teams have class & those who don't. 

[flyerrod]

All I can say is, I'm just glad it wasn't the Nucks on the receiving end of that check...it would have been a sh** show, a gongfest, what have you....thanks to the likes of Tostito-head Sestito & the immaturity of Kassian (both are 'hit/retaliate first, think second).....shows which teams have class & those who don't. 

I am not sure why you would not expect someone to go after the guy who just injured your star player with a hit legal or not. The last time he hit someone with a "legal hit" causing injury, one of his team mates got whacked while he avoided confrontation. That is the whole gist of his avoidance causing more dangerous situations instead of taking his medicine.

[Polaris922]

I am not sure why you would not expect someone to go after the guy who just injured your star player with a hit legal or not. The last time he hit someone with a "legal hit" causing injury, one of his team mates got whacked while he avoided confrontation. That is the whole gist of his avoidance causing more dangerous situations instead of taking his medicine.

 

 

So I take it you fall into the category of folks who think you should have to fight to stand up for legal hits in the league??  

[goalnut3133]

I am not sure why you would not expect someone to go after the guy who just injured your star player with a hit legal or not. The last time he hit someone with a "legal hit" causing injury, one of his team mates got whacked while he avoided confrontation. That is the whole gist of his avoidance causing more dangerous situations instead of taking his medicine.

 

Well I was rather shocked that none of the Hawks did, very shocked actually. But it seems the concensus on the team was that it was a fair hit, just my guess & maybe Q warned them at intermission not to retaliate & take bone-head penalties (not like some other teams, ahem) as they were already behind in the game. The Hawks aren't known for their fighting anyway & have the least PIM's in the league I believe? Yes, a part of me wanted some payback but on the other hand, it was refreshing to see a team take a higher road for a change, after years of watching all the crap that the Nucks pull & turn the whole team into a joke. (There's standing up for your teammates & then there's taking it to a whole other ridiculous level).  It was just refreshing for me, I guess is what I was getting at. And yes I'm all for 'you should take as good as you give'...just not the way the Nucks do it, you know, the bone-headed way.

[flyerrod]

So I take it you fall into the category of folks who think you should have to fight to stand up for legal hits in the league??  

I think if you hit someone and injure them that you should have to answer for it legal/clean/ or not....

 

and for the record I already stated that I thought it was solid shoulder to shoulder contact and the puck was still in the general vacinity.

Edited March 31, 2014 by flyerrod

[ruxpin]

Reasons:
1)  Watch any hockey game, how many times to you see the forward going in to chip the puck deeper along the boards, and then get hammered by a defensemen.   Not how many GAMES do you see it, but how many times in ONE game.  (with forwards plastering defenseman too)   I don't know what to do with this, so I'll move on.
2)  Orpik's body position at the time of the hit is almost 90degrees  to the ice. If you watch the video from the goal line, their actual first contact is with their skates/legs, with Toews leaning into the center of the ice. So he's not leading to the head. Not sure I agree with the skates/legs, but I have to agree he doesn't appear to lead to the head.
3)  At the time of the hit, this is almost contact along the whole body line
4)  No leading elbow or forearm, they are tucked in.  I agree.
5) This is not a head shot, for those trying to make is sound so, are you using that a variation on the age old adage by saying " Wow man, he hit him in the head so hard that his shoulder going hurt instead!"
6) The hit is NOT late, if you think so, then you should petition the league to make the words "finishing a check" synonamous with "2 Minute Penalty".  Toews played the puck, and was hit before the puck went even 10 feet, not halfway to the intended recipient of the pass.  As in item one , how many times a game you see a player hit after he's already passed the puck, by a lot longer than this hit. I agree with this as well.  I've seen people complain it was late, but if that's late you simply cannot hit anyone anymore.
 
Thoughts on others thoughts(both here and other locations).
1) On Milbury, never mind, he's not worth the thought.  Agreed.
2) On thoughts that Chicago should have retaliated against Orpik.  I'd like to go back and see if these would be the same people who in prior weeks have stated that you shouldn't have to fight after a clean hit.  Again agree. 
3) All the argument in this case is because of the result, not the hit.  If Toews gets back up its a great play.  I actually think the league won't even look at this because of the opposite:  he didn't get back into the play, but he did get up on his own.  Seems they only look if there is a stretcher.
4) If I have a defenseman on my team that DOESN'T make some kind of hit in that situation, I don't want him on my team.  Did you want Orpik to let him go and head for the net?   Agree to an extent except he wasn't going to the net, and Orpik came from half a zone a way.  But to answer you, yes, I want the hit.
5) For commenters who state, "well how would you like if someone tried to do that to Cindy?".  They do, everyone "targets the other teams star players". Thinking otherwise is denial.
6) Apcray happens, its a physical game.
 
So do I have NO problems with this hit, actually no,  I do have one.   The only point that I'll conceede to some is that Orpik's body was rising into this hit.   I don't typically go with the "Well his feet didn't leave the ice until after the hit". They whole transfer of energy thing doesn't work out in my mind.   But in this case, as I stated above, he did not drive forward with the shoulder, but kept his body straight up in relation to the ice.  It had nothing to do with Toews SHOULDER injury.   So far, I like your take the best.

[ruxpin]

Anybody can see the initial point of contact IS the SHOULDER. I capitalized that because clearly some folks need larger font

 

We're going to need a bigger font.

[Polaris922]

@ruxpin

 

heh heh heh 

[Polaris922]

I think if you hit someone and injure them that you should have to answer for it legal/clean/ or not....

 

and for the record I already stated that I thought it was solid shoulder to shoulder contact and the puck was still in the general vacinity.

 

I read your take on the hit... I just think it's ridiculous that a player throws a legal body check and has to fight over it.  So let's say Giroux throws a check into Crosby, much like the playoffs a couple seasons ago.  Crosby lays on the ice a moment looking hurt, that gives Engelland the right to come take Giroux's head off and knock him out of the playoffs with a concussion or something?  Over a legal clean body check?  Just makes no sense to me.  

 

If it's within the rules it's within the rules.  I could see on things like the Cooke hit to Savard's head, which though at the time was within the rules, left little to the imagination of what Cooke was trying to do.  But a clean body check to the shoulder, injury or otherwise... Not much different than saying "You iced the puck?!?  You have to answer for that!!" and going after the guy.

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

 I hate the "go after him cause he hit my guy" mentality that is in the NHL now. But I do admit I was surprised nobody went after him because he hurt him. But I was even more surprised that when Toews got up and skated to the bench, that Neal didn't come in with the flying elbow to finish him off.

[flyerrod]

But I was even more surprised that when Toews got up and skated to the bench, that Neal didn't come in with the flying elbow to finish him off.

 

I think he actually went for the knee to the head but Toews got up too fast.......

[Polaris922]

@flyercanuck

@flyerrod

That's funny! Lol.

A side note though, I'm starting to think Neal got chastised by the organization somewhere. Since his 5k fine for stupidity against Detroit, he's been very composed. Couple clean checks but very subdued compared to what we were growing to expect from him...

[flyercanuck]

@Polaris922

 

 Wow! What was that...6 games ? Impressive. I doubt he can go 7 though. You can see the withdrawl symptoms creeping in.

[Polaris922]

@Polaris922

Wow! What was that...6 games ? Impressive. I doubt he can go 7 though. You can see the withdrawl symptoms creeping in.

At this point, the stupid **** he's been doing, I'll take it!

[nossagog]

We're going to need a bigger font.

Rux,  maybe we can just put in a big image with the word SHOULDER in it.

 

To your previous post, my first point was to say that players going down along the boards to get the puck are taken into the boards by the defender several times a game.  Not to this degree, but that happens sometimes.

[Polaris922]

From Chicago...

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/26551704-419/a-healthy-toews-is-more-important-than-vengeance.html