Here's the crazy thing...

[canoli]

Whoa HO... "soupçon" - my compliments to the chef, I likes it...well done sir!

[caluso]

the thing that keeps going through my mind is "tortorella followed by vigneault".  the rangers have a good squad, but that's really all you can say.  they are a bunch of multitools who know how to lock down the ice in front of their goalie, make gaining the blueline a pain in the ass, and counter attack ferociously.  the first two are classic tortorella, the last signature vigneault.  there is nothing on that roster that should frighten anyone, but they are playing their game almost perfectly.

i live in NY and watch the rangers frequently. in fact, i thought the rangers would win the series.

 

however, i thought the series would be competitive. i am somewhat shocked at the flyers play- they look timid and scared out there. no aggression, no tape-to-tape passes, etc...

 

while i think berube has done a great job overall, i think he has shown some inexperience in this series. specifically, i think he sent several bad messages to the team, especially at the outset, when he altered the team's style of play to deal with mcdonough. 

 

additionally, i think the flyers are lacking top end talent. voracek and giroux are really skilled players. after that, who do we have? i am hard pressed to find another dynamic offensive player, and you can't win with 2/3 of a top line.

[brelic]

Whoa HO... "soupçon" - my compliments to the chef, I likes it...well done sir!

 

Lol, I do my best!

[aziz]

additionally, i think the flyers are lacking top end talent. voracek and giroux are really skilled players. after that, who do we have? i am hard pressed to find another dynamic offensive player, and you can't win with 2/3 of a top line.

Well, the Rangers are. As is Boston. If a well rounded squad of capable - but - unspectacular players all buy into a solid game plan, and the coach keeps that game plan current as regards their current opponent... game breaking forwards aren't needed. In fact, I'd say they can make things tougher, as they can be hard to keep on script. Look at how long it took St Louis to get in board.

We'll see how it goes tonight, but the Flyers have some thinking to do, and I don't think it is all about roster issues, exactly.

[canoli]

the Flyers have some thinking to do, and I don't think it is all about roster issues, exactly.

 

What can they do different tonight besides offer the Rangers a new look? Change the lineup and/or mix up the lines, aren't they the only 2 cards left in the deck at this point?

[radoran]

Well, the Rangers are. As is Boston. If a well rounded squad of capable - but - unspectacular players all buy into a solid game plan, and the coach keeps that game plan current as regards their current opponent... game breaking forwards aren't needed. In fact, I'd say they can make things tougher, as they can be hard to keep on script. Look at how long it took St Louis to get in board.

We'll see how it goes tonight, but the Flyers have some thinking to do, and I don't think it is all about roster issues, exactly.

 

Boston still has a pair of 30-goal scorers, a 25 guy, a 24, a 20 and five more guys with 10+. Of all those guys one has more than 50% of his goals on the PP - Chara. Only one of their 20-goal scorers has more than 25% of their goals on the PP. Six of the Flyers' 20-goal scorers have more the 25% on the PP and four have almost half.

 

Boston has true balanced scoring that is a threat from each of at least the top three lines and is not reliant upon special teams for production - much as you note "unspectacular" but effective.

 

Is that all on coaching? Could be. Could also be that Boston has a team that - like the Rangers - has been deep in the playoffs for the past two seasons and has the confidence and experience to excel. They added Iginla and Reilly Smith emerged in Eriksson's place.

 

The place I really see the Flyers with a problem is the power play. And the guy who's been in charge of the power play for, what? The last five years? Is now 100% in charge and, quite frankly, it's never looked worse. That, for me, is the only real problem with coaching for the Flyers. And inexperience, to an extent - but that's not something that can be fixed with anything but experience. When you hire a first-year coach, that's part and parcel of the decision.

 

I believe the Flyers can win this game - and win this series. But they're going to have to have guys step up into roles they haven't necessarily played before. The chips are down. The time is now and we will see what they bring.

[canoli]

Except the PP always hovers somewhere in the Top Ten. Only once in the past 5 years it finished out of the top 10.

 

Also - believe it or not (and I didn't at first)  the Flyers' PP in this series is clicking at 25%.

 

[edit: btw Joe Mullen is the Flyers' PP coach, and he has been since he started working for the Flyers in 2007 - or '08.

 

Anyway, going back to the abysmal 2006-07 the Flyers' PP finished out of the top ten just twice, that year and the year after the run to the Final.]

Edited April 29, 2014 by canoli

[radoran]

Except the PP has been out of the Top Ten in the league only once in the past 5 years...probably longer. There was 1 year we were 19th, the rest of the years Top Ten.

 

Also - believe it or not - and I didn't at first - the Flyers' PP in this series is clicking at 25%.

 

As many have stated to me over the years - stats are one thing and the eye test is another. For me, it was the 0-4 in Game 5 that came before VLC scored in the final minute of the second to make it 1-3 that told the tale. Yay! They scored at "20%" on the PP in that game but Boo! They were down 3-0 when it finally clicked.

 

Moreover, if you take out Simmonds' empty-net "power play" goal, they drop down to 3 for 15 on the PP in the first five games. Even then, their one "meaningful" PPG was the GWG in Game 4. You might also put Akeson's goal (not the depth scoring guys from the regular season) in that basket. So, two meaningful PPGs in five games from a team that saw it's goal scorers be heavily reliant on special teams in the regular season.

 

That, for me, is the problem inherent in the power play.

 

I'm also doing a back-of-the-envelope analysis of how many goals the Flyers scored in games against playoff and non-playoff competition. Initial results (need to run through again) show a heavy preponderance of beating up on the Floridas and Buffalos of the league and, concurrently, a preponderance of 1- and 2-goal efforts against playoff-quality competition. That seems to match up with their experience against the Rangers - four 1/2 goal games (1-3) and one four-goal game (1-0). And one of the four was Simmonds' "power play" empty netter.

[aziz]

What can they do different tonight besides offer the Rangers a new look? Change the lineup and/or mix up the lines, aren't they the only 2 cards left in the deck at this point?

Well, there are things they can try. Giroux and Voracek' speed and possession games can beat the Rangers, but Hartnell kneecaps that. Move Simmonds up to that line, or maybe Read. Those three need to stay out of the corners, and try to pull coverage out of position. The other three lines need to focus on constant forechecking, don't try to get cute. "get it deep" needs to be the rule, trickery at the blue line is only going to turn the other way with numbers. Defensemen need to prioritize distribution over shooting, the Rangers are too good at clogging the slot for a point shooting game to work. Shoot only when there is a clear lane, and then keep it on the ice. Aren't going to beat lundqvist like that, but he can't catch with his pads and might leave something laying around. And the entire team needs to stop with the cross ice passes through the slot. They are going no where, and feed the counter attack.

And the defense Needs to be good with the puck at the blueline. That's you, Timonen.

Basically, the Flyers have been trying to force their normal game, but the Rangers are built specifically to shut that kind of game down. It is adapt or die.

[canoli]

lol .. well you are the one for breaking things down alright! I won't argue with you, I agree the 25% is misleading if only because when the Flyers really needed it to connect - the last game - it was atrocious. We know it, the Flyers know it and the Rangers know it.

 

I will give you a little argument on the "back o the envelope" idea that the Flyers pad their reg season PP stats. I don't dispute it I only remind you that every team does it, that's just the nature of the business. Good PPs take advantage of weak PKs - what a surprise! (not)

[canoli]

Well, there are things they can try. Giroux and Voracek' speed and possession games can beat the Rangers, but Hartnell kneecaps that. Move Simmonds up to that line, or maybe Read. Those three need to stay out of the corners, and try to pull coverage out of position. The other three lines need to focus on constant forechecking, don't try to get cute. "get it deep" needs to be the rule, trickery at the blue line is only going to turn the other way with numbers. Defensemen need to prioritize distribution over shooting, the Rangers are too good at clogging the slot for a point shooting game to work. Shoot only when there is a clear lane, and then keep it on the ice. Aren't going to beat lundqvist like that, but he can't catch with his pads and might leave something laying around. And the entire team needs to stop with the cross ice passes through the slot. They are going no where, and feed the counter attack.

And the defense Needs to be good with the puck at the blueline. That's you, Timonen.

Basically, the Flyers have been trying to force their normal game, but the Rangers are built specifically to shut that kind of game down. It is adapt or die.

 

From your keyboard to their brains... we can only hope they are "good at the blue line" and "stop the cross ice through the slot" nonsense. And the D-men - they have to be more aware of what they're shooting at - 98% of the time it's been a Ranger's skateblade. So stupid and I can't believe it kept happening 5 games into the series. We all know Coburn has no shot and I give him credit - he seems to have taken your advice. But the rest of them...Kimmo and Grossmann, Schenn...they haven't got the message yet. At least Streit walks the blue line a bit before he rams it into a Rags' defender...

 

I don't know Aziz...I wish you'd get your butt down to the Well Fargo Center today and give these guys a quick primer. It seems the current coaching staff hasn't adapted and they're all but playing right into the Rangers game.

[radoran]

lol .. well you are the one for breaking things down alright! I won't argue with you, I agree the 25% is misleading if only because when the Flyers really needed it to connect - the last game - it was atrocious. We know it, the Flyers know it and the Rangers know it.

 

I will give you a little argument on the "back o the envelope" idea that the Flyers pad their reg season PP stats. I don't dispute it I only remind you that every team does it, that's just the nature of the business. Good PPs take advantage of weak PKs - what a surprise! (not)

 

True, but I am looking at goal scoring in general as opposed to PP scoring specifically. I didn't phrase it well before.

 

For example, look at the last three weeks of the season when they went, IIRC, 1-6-2 against playoff teams and blew out Buffalo/Florida 5-2. Yay! They scored five goals in a couple of games. Yay! They scored five against Carolina (and lost 6-5). Boo! They aren't scoring more than two against serious playoff competition.

 

And that, quite frankly, hasn't changed.

 

Their top goal scorer has one goal - an empty net power play goal. Their second top scorer has one goal (with an empty net behind him) to cut it to 3-2 with 89 seconds to go (and lost).

 

And I still believe they win tonight.

[brelic]

And I still believe they win tonight.

 

Me too. 5-2 Flyers.

 

If you don't believe they will win, why bother watching at all?

[canoli]

I guess I expect them to win tonight. I do have one nagging thought ... will they roll over and "die" if the 1st doesn't go their way?

 

Let's face it it's been more than a month since the Flyers played a good game against a PO team. They don't have to win every shift tonight but they gotta control the game somewhat. How do you do that? You grab the lead and hold onto it. Next best thing is to stay within 1 goal if they don't score first.

 

It sure would be nice to see them play with the lead for a change. Constantly chasing the game is wearing these guys down.

[aziz]

It sure would be nice to see them play with the lead for a change. Constantly chasing the game is wearing these guys down.

And "chasing" is kind of exactly what they have to avoid. High energy chaos is what got them to this point. The Rangers are too solid to let that get anywhere.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Me too. 5-2 Flyers.

 

If you don't believe they will win, why bother watching at all?

 

 

The one intangible thing that this team has has been it's resiliency when their backs are against the wall. They're gonna need to rely on that tonight if they're gonna keep this going. Honestly, I don't believe they can win this series. Why am I gonna bother watching? Well, I also don't believe they can possibly win the cup this year... but, that's never stopped me watching the games before!

[mojo1917]

Why am I gonna bother watching? Well, I also don't believe they can possibly win the cup this year... but, that's never stopped me watching the games before!

 

you like hockey ? well that was my guess .

 

I will watch so I can flip the bird to dan ******* turtle bitch boyle and that asshat benoit pouliot.

 

plus google ny rangers roster and see the photos at the top, it is a miracle that henrick lundquist has the energy to play hockey , being rich , looking like that living in NYC, he probably pulls more tail than anyone not named Derrick Jeter.

[Bakanekimiwa]

you like hockey ? well that was my guess .

 

I will watch so I can flip the bird to dan ****** turtle bitch boyle and that asshat benoit pouliot.

 

plus google ny rangers roster and see the photos at the top, it is a miracle that henrick lundquist has the energy to play hockey , being rich , looking like that living in NYC, he probably pulls more tail than anyone not named Derrick Jeter.

 

 

Lol... I have done that. Actually, just today as well. It's hysterical. 

[brelic]

Why am I gonna bother watching? Well, I also don't believe they can possibly win the cup this year... but, that's never stopped me watching the games before!

 

you like hockey ? well that was my guess .

 

Interesting. 

 

There's a rational side to me that thinks the Flyers will not win the Cup, let alone this series.

 

But there's an emotional side to me that believes the Flyers can win the Cup. That side also believes, every single time I sit down to watch a game, that they can and will win.

 

If I went with the rational side, I don't think I'd bother watching hockey. Without emotion, I don't see the point personally. Most NHL games are simply not entertaining IMO. I would say a handful of regular season games were entertaining, and one game so far in this series. I usually don't bother watching other series because I'm not emotionally invested in them. I will watch Game 7s, though. They are usually barn burners, like tomorrow's potentially historical LA-SJ game 7. To think that Richards and Carter could become the first players to overcome a 0-3 series deficit TWICE in their careers... that's pretty impressive and pretty special for them.

[CoachX]

I wonder how they would stack up against the Rangers? Hmmm.

I think the rangers would skate to a 0-0 tie and would be forced to go to the first ever playoff shoot out, which would end in..... a tie

[CoachX]

Another thing I am seeing out of the Rangers, they are really all over Giroux. Its almost like they are willing to let the rest of the team do their thing, but not him. And its working. Voracek is having a good series, but I don't see any other response (unless you want to count the miriad of stupid penalites).

 

Az Aziz was saying, the power play is way to predictable. It has been for some time. I think they got a false sense of security and put all thier eggs in one basket. Why not replace Timonen with Streit? At least he can hit the net

[Bakanekimiwa]

Another thing I am seeing out of the Rangers, they are really all over Giroux. Its almost like they are willing to let the rest of the team do their thing, but not him. And its working. Voracek is having a good series, but I don't see any other response (unless you want to count the miriad of stupid penalites).

 

Az Aziz was saying, the power play is way to predictable. It has been for some time. I think they got a false sense of security and put all thier eggs in one basket. Why not replace Timonen with Streit? At least he can hit the net

 

This is what i'm having trouble with... If they are gonna key in on G and shut him down... well, we're supposed to have some depth that can give them problems with that strategy. It has not played out that way. I'm not totally sure why either. I guess it's either that the Rags are that good defensive team... OR... we're just not executing. I suppose we should leave open the possibly that it's just both of those things. Still... Flyers should be playing better hockey than they are. I expect them to come out fighting tonight... it's pretty simple now, DO or Die. If they can't bring it tonight, well they don't deserve it anyway then. 

[Flyingswede]

A huge different thou. We face Rangers, blues faced Black hawks. If we had faced black hawks we would be out earlier.

[ruxpin]

I haven't read completely through this thread but something I noticed not being touched on:

Has anyone noticed how utterly emotionless this Flyers / Rangers series has been? Unusually so given the two teams involved? This is a rival series in hockey and it's being played more polite than an intramural Catholic school volley ball game.

The Flyers have abandoned their identity. This benefits the Rangers. They CANNOT skate with the Rangers. They really need to approach this like they would against the Penguins.

Look at King Henry. When was the last time anyone was in our even near his crease? The only time he's been mad read at his own teammate (game 2?).

I think the Rinaldo suspension lead to a Berube threat about discipline. That combined with nutcase... Er ... Downie being benched for an AHLer. It has Hartnell, for one, completely off his game.

Be the damn Flyers and win or lose as a result. This playing like a team they're not is going to get them on the golf course this week.

[AndyS]

 

I'm ready for Hextall as GM. The Vinny signing was kinda the last straw for me with Homer. Just absolutely useless and out of left field. 

 

 

 

 

 

Me too. Time to see what Hexy can do.

 

The kid d-men can't get here soon enough, IMO.