Whither Lecavalier?

[canoli]

Having VLC on the fourth in a situation where the coach plays the fourth 6-8 minutes isn't that effective. Even giving him second line PP minutes.

 

so what the $#@% do you do with him then? Many fans expressed their unhappiness at seeing BSchenn on the wing this year to accommodate VLC (an experiment that was much too short-lived imo). So if Vinny is centering the 2nd line next year we'll really hear some howling.

 

Nobody knows when or if BSchenn will put the pieces together and become a consistent offensive threat. That uncertainty probably gets him traded this summer - or more likely on draft day. But if he's in the O&B in October and VLC is healthy... what's a HC to do?

[caluso]

so what the $#@% do you do with him then? Many fans expressed their unhappiness at seeing BSchenn on the wing this year to accommodate VLC (an experiment that was much too short-lived imo). So if Vinny is centering the 2nd line next year we'll really hear some howling.

 

Nobody knows when or if BSchenn will put the pieces together and become a consistent offensive threat. That uncertainty probably gets him traded this summer - or more likely on draft day. But if he's in the O&B in October and VLC is healthy... what's a HC to do?

it's funny, i was going to post that the VLC signing might be Holmgren's worst move yet. yes, even worse than the  Bryz deal; at least Bryz was signed to fill a perceived (key word, cause i loved Bob) void.

 

the VLC signing made no sense given that our supposed strength was up the middle. why not throw that money at a winger or d-man.....i guess that's what happens when you have no real plan and you insist on throwing darts.

 

gomer just doesn't get that this is a hard salary cap league and every penny matters. what are the odds that our resident genius gives somebody a second rounder to take VLC off our hands. we don't need a stinking second rounder, anyway. 

Edited May 2, 2014 by caluso

[mojo1917]

it's funny, i was going to post that the VLC signing might be Holmgren's worst move yet. yes, even worse than the  Bryz deal; at least Bryz was signed to fill a perceived (key word, cause i loved Bob) void.

 

the VLC signing made no sense given that our supposed strength was up the middle. why not throw that money at a winger or d-man.....i guess that's what happens when you have no real plan and you insist on throwing darts.

 

gomer just doesn't get that this is a hard salary cap league and every penny matters. what are the odds that our resident genius gives somebody a second rounder to take VLC off our hands. we don't need a stinking second rounder, anyway.

I would laugh at this if it didn't ring so true.

VLC signing was just odd, plus it did not really work out the way anyone envisioned. Even people who were trying to find the silver lining.

[radoran]

so what the $#@% do you do with him then? Many fans expressed their unhappiness at seeing BSchenn on the wing this year to accommodate VLC (an experiment that was much too short-lived imo). So if Vinny is centering the 2nd line next year we'll really hear some howling.

 

Nobody knows when or if BSchenn will put the pieces together and become a consistent offensive threat. That uncertainty probably gets him traded this summer - or more likely on draft day. But if he's in the O&B in October and VLC is healthy... what's a HC to do?

As I said in the post you quoted, play the "fourth"10-12 a game plus special teams for VLC.

And I still believe that barring a can't miss deal, the Flyers go with Schenn next season to start and make significant moves if the team still looks flat.

[brelic]

As I said in the post you quoted, play the "fourth"10-12 a game plus special teams for VLC.

And I still believe that barring a can't miss deal, the Flyers go with Schenn next season to start and make significant moves if the team still looks flat.

 

I can't imagine Laughton not being good enough for the 4th line next year. VLC is again in the wrong spot. 

 

I see no benefit in keeping him, and judging by his 8:45 TOI in Game 7, the coach doesn't have much of a role for him.

 

I'm sure Vinny will agree to a trade when faced with the prospect of being a 4th liner.

[pilldoc]

@brelic

 

agree...try to move VLC by any means possible. (again, I am not hating on the guy.  He is just not a fit for this team and it is a very bad contract)

If you move VLC that gives you the means to sign Vanek which I am all in favor of.

[radoran]

I can't imagine Laughton not being good enough for the 4th line next year. VLC is again in the wrong spot. 

 

I see no benefit in keeping him, and judging by his 8:45 TOI in Game 7, the coach doesn't have much of a role for him.

 

I'm sure Vinny will agree to a trade when faced with the prospect of being a 4th liner.

 

Then the only fly in the ointment is getting someone to take the next four years of his contract...

 

What do you think that'll cost? A 3rd?

 

I saw no benefit in signing him, see no benefit in keeping him and expect him to be in training camp at the end of the summer.

[mojo1917]

@brelic

 

agree...try to move VLC by any means possible. (again, I am not hating on the guy.  He is just not a fit for this team and it is a very bad contract)

If you move VLC that gives you the means to sign Vanek which I am all in favor of.

It was worse...maybe Stevie takes him back at a "more reasonable" number...we pay some of the salary ? Which is stupid but fixes the mistake, maybe a draft pick comes back and a depth guy. tampa's AHL team is big and fast and has skill every where.

[brelic]

Then the only fly in the ointment is getting someone to take the next four years of his contract...

 

What do you think that'll cost? A 3rd?

 

I saw no benefit in signing him, see no benefit in keeping him and expect him to be in training camp at the end of the summer.

 

I think it might mean we retain some of his salary. 

 

I could see VLC + 3rd rounder for a 2nd rounder. 

 

It sounds like you don't think there's any chance VLC will be moved. 

 

I don't think he'll be very happy in Philly with a reduced role. And Berube seems to have made it clear that he's not afraid to throw him on the 4th. That's got to be a hit to his pride. I don't hate the guy at all. I've always liked him and I hear he was incredible for the TB community. That's important. It's just that he has no real value to the Flyers, but I'm sure there are many other team out there that could use his services. Nashville, Montreal, Buffalo, TB (sentimental reasons), heck even Toronto can use a true veteran center.

 

VLC for JVR?  

[radoran]

It was worse...maybe Stevie takes him back at a "more reasonable" number...we pay some of the salary ? Which is stupid but fixes the mistake, maybe a draft pick comes back and a depth guy. tampa's AHL team is big and fast and has skill every where.

 

Why the h-e-double-hockey-sticks does anyone give up anything - much less a pick or a prospect (pick and prospect!?!?) - for four more years of VLC?

 

If the Flyers made that deal for VLC, we'd crucify them.

 

While I acknowledge that there are stupid people who do stupid things in NHL management, is there really anyone that would give up more than futures or a 5th or something? Sure, if the Flyers retain, say, half his salary.

[radoran]

I think it might mean we retain some of his salary. 

 

I could see VLC + 3rd rounder for a 2nd rounder. 

 

It sounds like you don't think there's any chance VLC will be moved. 

 

I don't think he'll be very happy in Philly with a reduced role. And Berube seems to have made it clear that he's not afraid to throw him on the 4th. That's got to be a hit to his pride. I don't hate the guy at all. I've always liked him and I hear he was incredible for the TB community. That's important. It's just that he has no real value to the Flyers, but I'm sure there are many other team out there that could use his services. Nashville, Montreal, Buffalo, TB (sentimental reasons), heck even Toronto can use a true veteran center.

 

VLC for JVR?  

 

I think there's a chance that he could be moved. Yes, it would take the Flyers overpaying and retaining salary. Probably half his salary...

 

Worth it in the end, yes, but just a reflection of how smacked-ass stupid this move was in the first place.

 

The problem isn't VLC next year, it's the four years left on the deal that are daunting for someone looking to pick him up.

 

And, remember, the Flyers outbid other teams to get him... No one else wanted to pay him that level for that length last year. After what he showed this year, who's really lining up for him?

 

I just don't see a lot of GMs willing to ride to Homer's rescue on this one. I do get the feeling that a lot of people in the NHL are happy as heck to watch the Flyers twist in the wind.

 

I certainly don't see Nashville bailing out Homer. Not in a million, billion years.

 

I think the Sabres are going in a younger direction and "building" with four years of a 34-year-old, underperforming center isn't in that plan.

 

Montreal? Already has Briere

 

Tronno? I can't even imagine the reaction of fans to "VLC is your new 2nd line center". I think they make a run at a Statsny.

 

Tampa makes sense, but only for sentimental reasons. There is a reason they bought him out, after all. And they've cut all ties to the Glory Years (Richards/St. Louis/VLC). I could see him there in a swan song, but this swan song is four years long...

[radoran]

Had a few discussions on a couple of threads about the future of VLC and thought it could use it's own thread.

 

I, for one, think that it will be very difficult to move VLC - especially given that he has a full No Movement Clause and can dictate where (and if) he wants to go. It could very well be that the "incentive" of being a "fourth line center" would be enough for him to just generally waive it, but that's still hopeful speculation.

 

Flyers, IMO, will need to retain salary - perhaps as much as the full half they are allowed to - and likely give up something to get another team to take him.

 

I don't expect to get much in return beyond the cap space and roster sanity.

 

By all reports, Homer outbid and out-lengthed other teams in pursuit of VLC. After this "disappointing" season - his fifth in a row of declining production and incomplete seasons - what is the incentive for anyone to give up anything to acquire him? For the next four years?

 

I see him on the Flyers' roster this fall. And that's not at all what I would want to have happen.

 

What say you?

[brelic]

I think there's a chance that he could be moved. Yes, it would take the Flyers overpaying and retaining salary. Probably half his salary...

 

Worth it in the end, yes, but just a reflection of how smacked-ass stupid this move was in the first place.

 

The problem isn't VLC next year, it's the four years left on the deal that are daunting for someone looking to pick him up.

 

And, remember, the Flyers outbid other teams to get him... No one else wanted to pay him that level for that length last year. After what he showed this year, who's really lining up for him?

 

I just don't see a lot of GMs willing to ride to Homer's rescue on this one. I do get the feeling that a lot of people in the NHL are happy as heck to watch the Flyers twist in the wind.

 

I certainly don't see Nashville bailing out Homer. Not in a million, billion years.

 

I think the Sabres are going in a younger direction and "building" with four years of a 34-year-old, underperforming center isn't in that plan.

 

Montreal? Already has Briere

 

Tronno? I can't even imagine the reaction of fans to "VLC is your new 2nd line center". I think they make a run at a Statsny.

 

Tampa makes sense, but only for sentimental reasons. There is a reason they bought him out, after all. And they've cut all ties to the Glory Years (Richards/St. Louis/VLC). I could see him there in a swan song, but this swan song is four years long...

 

Hmm. Then is a buyout the only option? It's actually not a bad option on paper.

 

2014-15: $1,500,000

2015-16: $3,000,000

2016-17: $3,000,000

2017-18: $2,500,000

2018-19: $1,000,000

2019-20: $1,000,000

2020-21: $1,000,000

2021-22: $1,000,000

 

But will the Flyers be willing to admit - yet again - that they made a mistake and are willing to pay $14M to get out of it?

 

Vinny would be getting paid a lot of money by TWO teams to NOT play hockey. I don't want to open this other discussion, but the system is broken. Teams need to be able to get out of contracts to players who simply do not live up to their end of the bargain.

[radoran]

Teams need to be able to get out of contracts to players who simply do not live up to their end of the bargain.

 

By that logic, high producing players should be able to get out of "bad" contracts and force teams to renegotiate.

 

The door swings both ways...

[Bertmega]

They will retain half his salary and move him. I think this should be the final nail in the coffin for Holmgren. They cannot operate a functional business by throwing money down the toilet whenever the moment calls for it. 

 

I would like to see him gone and far gone from this team. It was an absolute disaster having him as yet another centerman on this team. 

 

I'd hate to see them move Schenn or shelve Laughton for yet another year, so they can have the most expensive forth line in hockey. Granted Schenn can be frustrating, but he is young and may turn out to be a very good player. 

 

That is my two cents. 

[brelic]

By that logic, high producing players should be able to get out of "bad" contracts and force teams to renegotiate.

 

The door swings both ways...

 

Perhaps. I agree in theory, but I don't know what that would look like in practice. My guess is that such an open door policy would create a lot of bad blood on both sides.

 

Anyway, that's a whole other thread. 

[Samifan]

 

Hmm. Then is a buyout the only option? It's actually not a bad option on paper.

 

2014-15: $1,500,000

2015-16: $3,000,000

2016-17: $3,000,000

2017-18: $2,500,000

2018-19: $1,000,000

2019-20: $1,000,000

2020-21: $1,000,000

2021-22: $1,000,000

 

But will the Flyers be willing to admit - yet again - that they made a mistake and are willing to pay $14M to get out of it?

 

Vinny would be getting paid a lot of money by TWO teams to NOT play hockey. I don't want to open this other discussion, but the system is broken. Teams need to be able to get out of contracts to players who simply do not live up to their end of the bargain.

 

Unless I am mistaken, VLC cannot be bought out. Post lock-out each team was given two compliance buyouts and two years to use them. The Flyers immediately used both to shed Briere and Bryz so I dont think that is an option.

[radoran]

Unless I am mistaken, VLC cannot be bought out. Post lock-out each team was given two compliance buyouts and two years to use them. The Flyers immediately used both to shed Briere and Bryz so I dont think that is an option.

 

They can buy him out, it would just result in a cap hit. The numbers Brelic posted were the cap hit numbers.

[radoran]

Perhaps. I agree in theory, but I don't know what that would look like in practice. My guess is that such an open door policy would create a lot of bad blood on both sides.

 

Anyway, that's a whole other thread. 

 

Well, exactly. The players have gone to the wall time and again on guaranteed contracts.

[brelic]

They can buy him out, it would just result in a cap hit. The numbers Brelic posted were the cap hit numbers.

 

Exactly, thanks rad.

 

Those numbers really aren't that bad. Two years of $3M dead cap space when the cap should continue to rise. 

 

I hope they do it, but I'm not convinced they will.

[Samifan]

They can buy him out, it would just result in a cap hit. The numbers Brelic posted were the cap hit numbers.

 

 

Consider me educated, thanks!

[murraycraven]

I am going out on a limb here and predicting the following:

 

No one is going to want to take on VLC's contract (and yes, this might be Homers worst move ever) so the Flyers are stuck with him. I still have this sneaking suspicion that Homer will retain VLC and that B Schenn is traded. There is no proof and it is pure speculation but I can totally see Homer making himself believe that VLC's issues were related to being out of his natural position.

 

This is not what I want to happen but if I were a betting man I think VLC is here and Schenn (maybe both) are gone.

[brelic]

I still have this sneaking suspicion that Homer will retain VLC and that B Schenn is traded.

 

We agree on this, mc. He's going to try and cover up an obvious mistake now by making one that won't be known until later. We *hope* Schenn lives up to expectations, but as of right now, it's all just expectations that mean nothing. You don't win Cups on expectations and projections. That's the angle I'm afraid Homer will take.

[Samifan]

but I can totally see Homer making himself believe that VLC's issues were related to being out of his natural position

 

Hence the meeting Homer will be having with Giroux during locker clean out today. "Claude, I think we are going to try you at wing on Vinne's line next season" 

[peter puck]

I mentioned this in the gm. thread. Trade Hartnell Coburn and 17th pick for oilers 3rd pick and yak. Flip the 3rd and Vinny and half his salary and a prospect to panthers for the 1st .