Stanley Cup Finals Rangers and Kings

[hf101]

I'm really curious if anyone has any opinions on the two 'really' blown calls that IMO had a major effect on the series.

In game 2, that non-interference call was pretty poor resulting in a goal that really shifted momentum.

In game 5, that reverse tripping penalty also was poor resulting in a power play goal for the Kings.

 

All throughout the Montreal/New York series there was also a lot of horrible officiating.

 

IMO, those two calls made a major impact on the series outcome. Imagine if going into game 5 it was 2-2 with the Rangers clinging to that lead in game 5 in the 3rd.

 

Never know...could have been 3-2 Rangers and might have easily gone to game 7.

 

I don't want instant replay, but I would rather have that then momentum changing situations. I hate to see the refs lose the game for any team.

 

Oh yeah, there were several bad calls in this series, and other series as well.  Personally I'd rather see a missed non-call over the wrong call. The trip on Zuc was the wrong call, Muzzin stuck out his leg.  Why would Zucarello trup Muzzin when he has a sighted breakaway?  Ilogical.  That was the turning point in the game. 

 

As mentioned in another thread I"d like to see coaches have the opportunity to challenge one call on the ice per game.  For the integrity of the game the correct call needs to be made.

 

and btw, nice first post, hope you choose to discuss here with us often in the future.

[mojo1917]

I'm really curious if anyone has any opinions on the two 'really' blown calls that IMO had a major effect on the series.

In game 2, that non-interference call was pretty poor resulting in a goal that really shifted momentum.
In game 5, that reverse tripping penalty also was poor resulting in a power play goal for the Kings.

 

I thought the MatsZuc call was atrocious and changed the complexion of the game, though the Kings were starting to press and were having some good cycle / zone time.  Zuccarello on a breakaway may have been a stake to the heart for that contest.

 

the goalie interference call was difficult to judge in real time... at least that's how I saw it, King and the defensman...Girardi ? were engaged pinball style and the shot came on top of that, in 4K with the phantom super slowmotion camera it was a lot easier to say  King interfered , in real time it was a bang bang play, that had the referee blown the whistle and called the penalty , I would have  had no beef either,  that one, to my thinking anyway was the more difficult call. 

 

i really think the league needs to append that rule, its spirit is worthy but referees have a hard time watching the puck and the players and often miss a guy getting pushed into the keeper .  right now that is a bad rule.

[Polaris922]

Yes the officiating was bad, but that same officiating helped the Rangers get where they were. It was at least bad across the board in this series and both teams got calls for and against them that could affect things. It didnt favor either team in this series.

[mojo1917]

Yes the officiating was bad, but that same officiating helped the Rangers get where they were. It was at least bad across the board in this series and both teams got calls for and against them that could affect things. It didnt favor either team in this series.

i patently and whole heartedly disagree.

The blown call on Zuccarello led directly to a power play goal that tied the game.  I fail to see how that didn't favor the Kings.

Edited June 16, 2014 by mojo1917

[J0e Th0rnton]

I'm really curious if anyone has any opinions on the two 'really' blown calls that IMO had a major effect on the series.

In game 2, that non-interference call was pretty poor resulting in a goal that really shifted momentum.

In game 5, that reverse tripping penalty also was poor resulting in a power play goal for the Kings.

 

All throughout the Montreal/New York series there was also a lot of horrible officiating.

 

IMO, those two calls made a major impact on the series outcome. Imagine if going into game 5 it was 2-2 with the Rangers clinging to that lead in game 5 in the 3rd.

 

Never know...could have been 3-2 Rangers and might have easily gone to game 7.

 

I don't want instant replay, but I would rather have that then momentum changing situations. I hate to see the refs lose the game for any team.

No blown call looked as bad to me as Stalock getting pitchforked into the net and the goal counting. It crushed the game .

 

If not for that, you might have been playing the sharks in the finals instead of the kings

[sarsippius]

@Tunnleram

 

Putting my well-documented and partially neurotic Ranger hate aside.....good to have another Ranger fan here, look forward to jousting with you!

 

Agree on the Game 5 "trip", atrocious call and I said it the second it happened, at a crucial point in the game. I wasn't so offended by the liberties taken on Lundqvuist esp the game 2 call, but I guess it's all perspective. A work with an old-time Ranger fan and we've been discussing the series throughout, today he even kinda shrugged that stuff off, said they had plenty of chances, three OT losses shows the Kings had the horses and were at the right place at the right time. I tend to agree.

 

Don't worry about @Polaris922 and his sour grapes, he's a good poster....even though we agree on absolutely nothing

[Tunnleram]

Personally I'd rather see a missed non-call over the wrong call. 

 

I agree completely. Remember the days when they'd just let them play and just call fights? I guess that was pre-NBC before they neutered the NHL a bit.

 

Yes the officiating was bad, but that same officiating helped the Rangers get where they were. It was at least bad across the board in this series and both teams got calls for and against them that could affect things. It didnt favor either team in this series.

 

I'd be interested to hear about any bad call that resulted in a Rangers goal. I'm typically pretty fair and I didn't see anything egregious.

[Polaris922]

i patently and whole heartedly disagree.

The blown call on Zuccarello led directly to a power play goal that tied the game. I fail to see how that didn't favor the Kings.

I think Adam Muir said it best:

"I’ll give you this much, Rangers fans: that tripping call on Mats Zuccarello could have gone either way. You’ve got every right to go all Howard Beale after it led to the game-tying goal.

But don’t think for a minute that the refs, or that one penalty, cost New York the game.

I’ll admit the Rangers got the dirty end of the stick from the officials once or twice this spring. Maybe Dwight King should have been called for goaltender interference. Maybe Brandon Prust should have been nabbed for his head shot on Derek Stepan. And poor Stepan was tripped up by Marc Joannette while on a breakaway in Game 6 of the Pittsburgh series.

But Zuccarello being in the box pales next to the real problem:

New York was outshot 51-30 Friday night, 41-19 in Game 4, 44-38 in Game 2, and 43-27 in Game 1.

In Game 4, they were outshot 15-1 in the final 20 minutes. On Friday night, the total was 12-3 in the Kings’ favor. Over the series, L.A. outshot New York 61-25 in the third and held the Rangers without a goal in the final frame or OT.

Sensing a pattern there?

The Rangers spent way too much time in their own zone in this series. Way too much time chasing the puck. And asked waaaay too much of Henrik Lundqvist.

And how about those blown leads? A two-goal cushion in Game 1. A pair of those in Game 2. A third-period lead in Game 5.

It was a recipe that came out of the oven exactly as you’d expect.

Did the officials miss a few along the way? Sure. But before you complain, ask yourself how many of those contentious calls you would have caught without the benefit of multiple replays. If you’re being honest, the answer might be one."

[Polaris922]

I agree completely. Remember the days when they'd just let them play and just call fights? I guess that was pre-NBC before they neutered the NHL a bit.

I'd be interested to hear about any bad call that resulted in a Rangers goal. I'm typically pretty fair and I didn't see anything egregious.

The Zuccarello call didn't "result" in a Kings goal either. It resulted in a power play. Your penalty kill's lack of effectiveness in that series resulted in the goal.

Honestly the officiating favored the Rangers against the Pens and Habs, but was more balanced this series. Was the Zuccarello tripping a bad call? Sure. Did it decide the series? Not even close. The Rangers were no match for the Kings. This was a lopsided affair.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Polaris922

[Polaris922]

@Tunnleram

Putting my well-documented and partially neurotic Ranger hate aside.....good to have another Ranger fan here, look forward to jousting with you!

Agree on the Game 5 "trip", atrocious call and I said it the second it happened, at a crucial point in the game. I wasn't so offended by the liberties taken on Lundqvuist esp the game 2 call, but I guess it's all perspective. A work with an old-time Ranger fan and we've been discussing the series throughout, today he even kinda shrugged that stuff off, said they had plenty of chances, three OT losses shows the Kings had the horses and were at the right place at the right time. I tend to agree.

Don't worry about @Polaris922 and his sour grapes, he's a good poster....even though we agree on absolutely nothing

I have no sour grapes. The Pens have nobody to blame but themselves. But to watch a team that blew numerous leads, failed to score in a third period or overtime, and thought being outshot 40's to 20's almost every game was good complain about officiating when really only one call went against them in an evenly blown officiating series is ridiculous. Maybe if it were in overtime of a game 7 and directly led to the GW I could see it. This series? The Rags were lucky to win one.

[sarsippius]

@Polaris922

 

Just bustin' your chops on the sour grapes comment, but the guy's question was about this series, not the ones against the Habs and Penguins so.....Anyway, it may not have changed the eventual outcome of the series, but that horrible call against them in game 5 led directly to the tying goal, I mean I think it was the same shift off the ensuing faceoff. And how do I stick my leg out and get a penalty called on the guy who runs into it? If they hang on and force game 6 back in NY....well I shudder at the possibilities.

 

Did they lose the series because they got jobbed by the refs? No of course not. But Rangers fans looking at that call, then thinking back to two OT losses after blown two goal leads in the first two games.....I can understand the what ifs. The Flyers got swept by the most dominant dynasty of my lifetime in '76, but I still look back at having no Bernie in the series and losing the first three games in OT and wonder what if....

[mojo1917]

@Polaris922

 

i do get your overarching point,  the Kings were the better team and one call didn't "cost the series" .

However, that one call did change the momentum of that game.  I know you know that too.

[radoran]

@Polaris922

 

i do get your overarching point,  the Kings were the better team and one call didn't "cost the series" .

However, that one call did change the momentum of that game.  I know you know that too.

 

Yeah, this is my only concern. It's like the "no goal" call for Buffalo. It will always be talked about and always cause consternation regardless of the "right call" (it was the wrong call).

 

But Dallas was still likely to take that series anyway.

 

My concern isn't that the blown trip cost New York the Cup, just that we're always going to hear about it.

 

I think that's bad for the game as a whole.

[Polaris922]

@sarsippius

Off the ensuing face off though means there was time to change lines, play the man, whatever else they wanted to do. Not like it resulted in a breakaway the other direction. They still had to play the game. Those who don't seize the moment and all... And momentum is a matter of willpower. If you're going to fold like a pansy over one blown call you better find a different sport.

@mojo1917

@radoran

I don't want to hear twenty years of whining by Rags fans either, which is why I pointed our Muir's quote about just how lopsided that series was. One missed call that didn't result in a goal on that very play is irrelevant in a best of seven series.

[radoran]

@mojo1917

@radoran

I don't want to hear twenty years of whining by Rags fans either, which is why I pointed our Muir's quote about just how lopsided that series was. One missed call that didn't result in a goal on that very play is irrelevant in a best of seven series.

 

In shots, sure - but three OT games and one featuring a "controversial" call that led to a tying goal isn't as "lopsided" as one stat might suggest.

 

And you will hear moaning of Rags fans - trust me. And from the media - being New York-centric.

 

The Kings showed this year that simply being down 3-1 isn't the end of the world. If New York hangs on to win Game 5 and is back in New York for Game 6, it is a much different complexion. That call led directly to the power play goal that tied the game. That is a game-affecting call.

 

Again - as I clearly stated the first time and my Buffalo/Dallas comparison bore out - I still think LA takes that series. I would just prefer that officiating not have been an issue from the jump.

[sarsippius]

@sarsippius

Not like it resulted in a breakaway the other direction. They still had to play the game. Those who don't seize the moment and all... And momentum is a matter of willpower. If you're going to fold like a pansy over one blown call you better find a different sport.

Now take your own words, and apply it to your crying, in this very thread I believe,about how the refs handed the series to the Rags against YOUR TEAM. Honestly man that's just foolish and devoid of even an attempt at objectivity.

I went out of my way to say IT'S NOT WHY RAGS LOST THE SERIES. But somehow how you can't concede a point as obvious as what a horrible call it was and that it had an effect on the game. Fold like a pansy is hyperbole that doesn't describe what happened.

EDIT: My bad, I reread the thread and the words "handed the series" were not used by you in this thread. Maybe another thread, maybe another poster, maybe I just remembered incorrectly. This is called admitting you were wrong, I highly recommend it. Doesn't change my point one iota though.

Edited June 17, 2014 by sarsippius

[Vanflyer]

In game 5, that reverse tripping penalty also was poor resulting in a power play goal for the Kings.

 

I did not see the first call you mentioned in game 2, but the game 5 tripping was just atrocious to me. I think I am in the minority because most "in game" chatters thought it was "incidental". The dman (kings) clearly stuck his leg out to impede progress of a  non-puck carrying ranger.

 

It actually could have been a double minor in my mind. 

 

All I can say is that the rangers did not quit. I was rooting for them because of Henrique (though I would have spit up in my mouth a bit to see that worthless millionaire Nash carry the cup).

.

[Polaris922]

Now take your own words, and apply it to your crying, in this very thread I believe,about how the refs handed the series to the Rags against YOUR TEAM. Honestly man that's just foolish and devoid of even an attempt at objectivity.

I went out of my way to say IT'S NOT WHY RAGS LOST THE SERIES. But somehow how you can't concede a point as obvious as what a horrible call it was and that it had an effect on the game. Fold like a pansy is hyperbole that doesn't describe what happened.

EDIT: My bad, I reread the thread and the words "handed the series" were not used by you in this thread. Maybe another thread, maybe another poster, maybe I just remembered incorrectly. This is called admitting you were wrong, I highly recommend it. Doesn't change my point one iota though.

Wow... So what exactly am I supposed to say I'm wrong about? My opinion that one blown call does not decide the series? The only thing close to handed the series I'd have said was the Pens have nobody but themselves to blame for handing the Rangers the series after being up 3-1? That's something I might have said.

And I have said from the start that was a bad call. But again it did not directly lead to a goal. It led to a power play. The Rangers had to kill a man advantage for the Kings and failed to do so. Or the Rags could've played a better third period or OT. The game didnt end with that call.

There was horrible officiating in every series as far as what I saw. As I said with the Habs and Pens as well. NY even had OT power plays here and lost. That's not on that call.

I don't know why you feel you have to get aggressive with me over this. I didn't put words in your mouth or anything. I just disagree that this call was that big of a deal. The Kings dominated the Rags in every third period. THAT was the Rags' problem. They couldn't hold leads or compete late in games to name two.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Polaris922

[sarsippius]

Whether intended or not, by making statements like this (just one example of several in this thread), you are de facto putting words in my mouth:

[quote name="Polaris922"

The game didnt end with that call.

[Tunnleram]

Granted I'm a Ranger's fan, but I feel I'm very fair. 

• Each game except for one was a 1 goal game.
• 3 games went into OT and could have been either team's win

It was a heck of a lot closer than people make it out to be. I personally believe people should give the Ranger's more credit. 

 

Either way, I can accept a loss - a loss is a loss, but I'm just plain sick of the officiating. I wouldn't be so sick to my stomach had there not been that call. The Kings couldn't score in 2 1/2 periods after that so it wasn't a drop in the bucket for them. In fact only one game was where they clearly outplayed the Rangers.. 

 

I think many of the rules suck due to objectivity of the refs and I think the amount of blown calls suck. This is not a new view for me so it's not based on this series.

[Vanflyer]

My concern isn't that the blown trip cost New York the Cup, just that we're always going to hear about it.

 

You mean like the Flyers - Islanders Leon Stickle call? :-)

[Polaris922]

Whether intended or not, by making statements like this (just one example of several in this thread), you are de facto putting words in my mouth:

Nor did I ever say that it did. Arguing things I didn't say, and giving all the other ways the Rangers could have won, makes it sound like I'm saying things I didn't say. Hence my aggressive reaction to your post.

I said it led directly to a goal. Such a situation is commonly referred to in this manner. To argue otherwise and say an offense must lead directly to a breakaway or a goal on the same play.....sounds like arguing for the sake of being contrary. Hence my aggressive reaction to your post.

 

So what I said AFTER your aggression caused it.... right.  I'll send you some Pamprin next day I get off.     I think you've taken my disagreement that the call itself was a major factor and turned it into a personal judgement of your opinion somehow.  You go on with that.  I'll be moving on to the next thread.  

[sarsippius]

Typical misdirection in a knowingly incorrect first line. I'm out.