UPDATE: McDavid sweepstakes rankings.

[yave1964]

Last night the Carolina Hurricanes damages their chances in the Conner McDavid in the sweepstakes by defeating the injury plagued Columbus Blue Jackets 3-2 in overtime, the Jackets disappointed the homes crowds hopes by coming away with one point. The Jackets are injury riddled but got back Jenner and Wisniewski back in the lineup. Since Eric Staal came back the Canes have now won four in a row and grumblings are now going around the Carolinas that Staal needs dealt soon to the Leafs before he ruins their dreams of getting the next great superstar.

In the battle of the other two teams currently in the running, the Sabres managed to blow a third period 2-1 lead by allowing the Oilers to fire at will on poor goalie Neuvirth who faced 50 shots the Oilers were stunned by their regulation win, and with 5 wins, all against the East the Oilers are hoping for better luck against the West when they return home.

So the current standings:

Sabres: 8 points in 15 games leading the way.

Jackets: 9 points in 13 games but in danger of improvement as players get healthy

Hurricanes 10 points in 12 games with Staal back and 4 wins in a row they need to wrong the ship soon or fall off this list

Oilers 11 points in 12 games. Hoping a return West will get them back off track.

Outside looking in are the Stars and the Panthers who need to get things together soon and start losing to have any chance.

[flyercanuck]

@yave1964

 

We're not out of this thing yet!

[jammer2]

@yave1964   The Jackets will be out of this race once Bob returns next week. If you would have told me a few weeks ago that the Canes would win 4 in a row I would have laughed hysterically. Once Eric Stall came back, things just took off. Basically, every game the Canes  play with Eric, takes them one step away from McDavid.

 

  Right now, there seems to be a better than average chance that McDavid will ply his trade in the Eastern Conference. Would be fun to watch such a dominant player play the Flyers more than just twice a year.....BUT I just know he will burn us continually if he does end up residing in the East.

[Polaris922]

@yave1964 BUT I just know he will burn us continually if he does end up residing in the East.

Sounds like someone else I know...

[Old School Hockey]

I'm surprised the Pens aren't tanking again for the 3rd time?

[jammer2]

I'm surprised the Pens aren't tanking again for the 3rd time?

 

 

  Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....don't give them any ideas.

 

  Why do you think they signed Fleury?  He's the ultimate McDavid weapon!!

[Polaris922]

I'm surprised the Pens aren't tanking again for the 3rd time?

Let me get you a new stick... I think the horse wore that one out. Even if it is misinformed

[Polaris922]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....don't give them any ideas.

Why do you think they signed Fleury? He's the ultimate McDavid weapon!!

Where's Bryzgalov when we need him??

[Old School Hockey]

Let me get you a new stick... I think the horse wore that one out. Even if it is misinformed

Hmmm you might want to research a bit! Ed Johnston admitted he did it.

[Polaris922]

Hmmm you might want to research a bit! Ed Johnston admitted he did it.

Actually, Ed Johnston said no such thing. Coach Angotti "admitted" that Johnston said they wouldn't be "too upset" if they lost. Not exactly the same thing there.

Aside from that, you said third time? What was the second?? Surely you don't mean Crosby?!

[JackStraw]

Sounds like someone else I know...

Yeah. That damn Patrik Elias... he's made a career of killing the Flyers.

[Old School Hockey]

Actually, Ed Johnston said no such thing. Coach Angotti "admitted" that Johnston said they wouldn't be "too upset" if they lost. Not exactly the same thing there.

Aside from that, you said third time? What was the second?? Surely you don't mean Crosby?!

Hmmmmm

Malkin

Fluery

Staal

[Polaris922]

@JackStraw

I was thinking more along the lines of a guy who averages over 1.5 PPG against you but that will do!

[Polaris922]

Hmmmmm

Malkin

Fluery

Staal

Bah! You must not have seen them much. They were legitimately broke and legitimately sucked! Trust me I suffered through it! Lol.

[yave1964]

Bah! You must not have seen them much. They were legitimately broke and legitimately sucked! Trust me I suffered through it! Lol.

Okay, Lemieux, yes YES your boys tanked. Nobody can deny that with a straight face.

But Crosby, nah, your boys didn't tank, they just sucked for awhile and earned it the hard way.

[Polaris922]

Okay, Lemieux, yes YES your boys tanked. Nobody can deny that with a straight face.

We can debate this till the end of time. The Devils had an even WORSE record ending that season, and the Pens roster clearly was a loser from the very start of the year., so how exactly did they tank? Bringing up an AHL goalie to see what he can do? Something teams did routinely when eliminated from the playoffs? Someone who played almost as good as the player he replaced having nearly zero impact?

So today a team trading at the deadline is considered in a rebuild... But for that year they 're considered to be tanking... I get it. Deadline fire sales are all tanking from now on.

One GM says they won't be too upset if they lose after an already non-playoff record and its tanking.

Honestly, this is more spite than any real evidence of tanking. The roster moves weren't anything spectacular., and some of the moves they made grew into good NHL talent.

I'm still waiting for definitive proof of tanking. There's still not even enough evidence to claim it's more likely than not, let alone guilty. Anything less remains opinion... And you know what they say about opinions.

Les keep this topic going... The cows aren't home yet... . Lol

[Old School Hockey]

We can debate this till the end of time. The Devils had an even WORSE record ending that season, and the Pens roster clearly was a loser from the very start of the year., so how exactly did they tank? Bringing up an AHL goalie to see what he can do? Something teams did routinely when eliminated from the playoffs? Someone who played almost as good as the player he replaced having nearly zero impact?

So today a team trading at the deadline is considered in a rebuild... But for that year they 're considered to be tanking... I get it. Deadline fire sales are all tanking from now on.

One GM says they won't be too upset if they lose after an already non-playoff record and its tanking.

Honestly, this is more spite than any real evidence of tanking. The roster moves weren't anything spectacular., and some of the moves they made grew into good NHL talent.

I'm still waiting for definitive proof of tanking. There's still not even enough evidence to claim it's more likely than not, let alone guilty. Anything less remains opinion... And you know what they say about opinions.

Les keep this topic going... The cows aren't home yet... . Lol

Pretty good article right here. Only homers can't see the obvious.

The problem with the National Hockey League’s draft system is that occasionally a young prospect is so incredibly good that middling to poor NHL clubs will inevitably face accusations of tanking to ensure a first round draft pick. Case in point, the 1983-84 Pittsburgh Penguins front office committed several questionable roster moves that ultimately left the team with future hall of famer (and arguably greatest player of all time) Mario Lemieux.

At that time, the Penguins were not only a terrible team on the ice, but the franchise was losing millions, home attendance dipped below 7,000 and relocation seemed to be in the cards. The Pens needed a miracle and Super Mario seemed to be the answer.

Lemieux was definitely going to be the first overall pick in the 1984 NHL entry draft. During the 83-84 season, the 17 year old potted 133 goals on his way to 282 points in 70 games for his junior team, the Laval Voisins of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. He added 52 points in 14 games in the playoffs (yes, you read that right) leading the team to their first ever President’s Cup. Mario “the Magnificent” Lemieux was the next franchise player and all the NHL clubs knew it. The question was which team would be horrendous enough to call him up to the podium on draft day.

The New Jersey Devils, which Wayne Gretzky referred to that year as a “Mickey Mouse operation,” made a strong case, but ultimately “lost” to the Penguins who ended the season with an abysmal 16 wins and 38 points. The race was so tight, then New Jersey Devils’ president, Bob Butera once remarked: “We’re trying to win every game, and I hope Pittsburgh is too. I’m not being accusatory, but I think Pittsburgh’s talent is better than they’re showing.” Butera would later issue an apology stating that he was misquoted and his words were taken out of context, but the damage was done. Everybody was thinking it anyway, and for good reason.

Trading talented defenseman Randolph “Randy” Carlyle to Winnipeg for a first-round draft pick and future considerations was one red flag. Carlyle, a Norris Trophy winner, all-star and Canadian Olympian was in his prime. But an oft neglected point is that this trade occurred on March 5th, one day before the 1984 trade deadline, at which point the Penguins season was already lost. From that perspective, it seems slightly less conspiratorial. Nonetheless, the trade was still something for nothing in regards to the rest of the season, a smart transaction for a team pining for the first overall draft pick.

Dave Molinari of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette points out another curious player transaction:

Also, there was an instance when goalie Roberto Romano had the temerity to string together a couple of strong starts late in the season, at which point general manager Ed Johnston sent him to the Penguins' farm team in Baltimore and brought up goalie Vincent Tremblay because "we want to see what he can do."

Romano was anything but a starter to begin with, posting a .876 save percentage and a 4.59 goals against average in 18 games that season. Tremblay, even less of a starter, fared much worse. The four games he played for the Penguins that year were his last in the NHL.

But the most telling evidence that the 83-84 Penguins tanked for Lemieux comes in the form of a 2014 TSN documentary titled “Playing to Lose,” featuring former Pens coach Lou Angotti. Angotti does not mince words in claiming he and former GM, Eddie Johnston, came to an understanding late in the 83-84 season that the survival of the franchise in Pittsburgh depended on their drafting of Mario Lemieux. He further admits to playing his 4th line against opponents’ top lines and icing the wrong personnel on the penalty kill all in an effort to lose games. Johnston, on the other hand, repeatedly claims he did what was best for the team. The Penguins ended their season by winning 3 out of 21 games.

Did Pittsburgh deliberately tank to draft Mario Lemieux? It’s probably not any more feasible to get an entire team on board with tanking to draft a superstar prospect than it is to get all of NASA on board with faking the moon landing. But if the 83-84 Penguins proved anything, it’s that a few closed door meetings and some front office wizardry cast under the claim that it’s “best for the team” can have plenty of influence on the standings… enough to save a franchise.

[Polaris922]

Pretty good article right here. Only homers can't see the obvious.

The problem with the National Hockey League’s draft system is that occasionally a young prospect is so incredibly good that middling to poor NHL clubs will inevitably face accusations of tanking to ensure a first round draft pick. Case in point, the 1983-84 Pittsburgh Penguins front office committed several questionable roster moves that ultimately left the team with future hall of famer (and arguably greatest player of all time) Mario Lemieux.

At that time, the Penguins were not only a terrible team on the ice, but the franchise was losing millions, home attendance dipped below 7,000 and relocation seemed to be in the cards. The Pens needed a miracle and Super Mario seemed to be the answer.

Lemieux was definitely going to be the first overall pick in the 1984 NHL entry draft. During the 83-84 season, the 17 year old potted 133 goals on his way to 282 points in 70 games for his junior team, the Laval Voisins of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League. He added 52 points in 14 games in the playoffs (yes, you read that right) leading the team to their first ever President’s Cup. Mario “the Magnificent” Lemieux was the next franchise player and all the NHL clubs knew it. The question was which team would be horrendous enough to call him up to the podium on draft day.

The New Jersey Devils, which Wayne Gretzky referred to that year as a “Mickey Mouse operation,” made a strong case, but ultimately “lost” to the Penguins who ended the season with an abysmal 16 wins and 38 points. The race was so tight, then New Jersey Devils’ president, Bob Butera once remarked: “We’re trying to win every game, and I hope Pittsburgh is too. I’m not being accusatory, but I think Pittsburgh’s talent is better than they’re showing.” Butera would later issue an apology stating that he was misquoted and his words were taken out of context, but the damage was done. Everybody was thinking it anyway, and for good reason.

Trading talented defenseman Randolph “Randy” Carlyle to Winnipeg for a first-round draft pick and future considerations was one red flag. Carlyle, a Norris Trophy winner, all-star and Canadian Olympian was in his prime. But an oft neglected point is that this trade occurred on March 5th, one day before the 1984 trade deadline, at which point the Penguins season was already lost. From that perspective, it seems slightly less conspiratorial. Nonetheless, the trade was still something for nothing in regards to the rest of the season, a smart transaction for a team pining for the first overall draft pick.

Dave Molinari of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette points out another curious player transaction:

Also, there was an instance when goalie Roberto Romano had the temerity to string together a couple of strong starts late in the season, at which point general manager Ed Johnston sent him to the Penguins' farm team in Baltimore and brought up goalie Vincent Tremblay because "we want to see what he can do."

Romano was anything but a starter to begin with, posting a .876 save percentage and a 4.59 goals against average in 18 games that season. Tremblay, even less of a starter, fared much worse. The four games he played for the Penguins that year were his last in the NHL.

But the most telling evidence that the 83-84 Penguins tanked for Lemieux comes in the form of a 2014 TSN documentary titled “Playing to Lose,” featuring former Pens coach Lou Angotti. Angotti does not mince words in claiming he and former GM, Eddie Johnston, came to an understanding late in the 83-84 season that the survival of the franchise in Pittsburgh depended on their drafting of Mario Lemieux. He further admits to playing his 4th line against opponents’ top lines and icing the wrong personnel on the penalty kill all in an effort to lose games. Johnston, on the other hand, repeatedly claims he did what was best for the team. The Penguins ended their season by winning 3 out of 21 games.

Did Pittsburgh deliberately tank to draft Mario Lemieux? It’s probably not any more feasible to get an entire team on board with tanking to draft a superstar prospect than it is to get all of NASA on board with faking the moon landing. But if the 83-84 Penguins proved anything, it’s that a few closed door meetings and some front office wizardry cast under the claim that it’s “best for the team” can have plenty of influence on the standings… enough to save a franchise.

Funny thing is everything said refutes the tanking theory except Angotti's statements and the author's summary. They justify every move the Pens made as normal except exaggerating the goalie difference for four games at the end of the season. And that is VERY normal for a team with a goaltender allowing almost 5 GAA at the end of the season.

They also fail to recognize the Carlysle trade brought them Doug Bodger, who was that first round pick and became a cornerstone of their rebuild. Again, perfectly normal.

Angotti was caught lying about a conversation once after leaving the Pens trying to excuse his horrible record as coach. He's the ONLY member of the organization to ever accuse Johnston of trying to lose. The fourth line vs. first was added well after the original allegations, for instance, and proven incorrect with box scores.

So other than Angotti's questionable comments, which could also be lies, what is there?

Haters gonna hate... If this were a civil court case your allegation would be dismissed, let alone a criminal court.

But lets say they DID actually try to lose. You can't make the players do it. So the entire theory of tanking hinges on one goalie move with a handful of games left?? That's quite a goalie that can do all that with a GAA only slightly worse than their starter.

Now IF they actually did it. Despite very little ACTUAL evidence they may have... I'm glad they did. If they hadn't I wouldn't be enjoying hockey the way I do. My sons wouldn't watch and play. I wouldn't have the tickets I do to enjoy time with them. And we wouldn't have three Cups to celebrate.

Ed Johnston... IF you did this ... God bless you always!

[Polaris922]

Ironic... Just now after the Pens thumped the Sabers Phil Borque addressed the idea they might be tanking to get McDavid. He said he's been on teams that struggle just to win a game here and there, and to let him tell you something.... Players are proud people, and the reality is they're playing for their livelihoods. One bad season can end a player's NHL career, and you won't see a player lose on purpose in this league.

Buffalo sucks yes, but its not for pack of trying... Unless you look at them letting go of quality players and signing trouble players or washed up players as something other than a rebuild...

[MadDevil]

It doesn't really matter if the players are trying or not when your goalies are Neuvirth and Enroth. You're pretty much guaranteed to stink.

[jammer2]

He further admits to playing his 4th line against opponents’ top lines and icing the wrong personnel on the penalty kill all in an effort to lose games.

 

  That right there, *that* is what I call damning evidence.

[Old School Hockey]

That right there, *that* is what I call damning evidence.

I read an article from a Pittsburgh journalist (mysteriously is now taken down) that noted many strategic moves all year long. Only the homer Pens fans say it never happened. One quote I remember reading was "anytime a player showed promise he was either sent down or was watching from the press box"

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Getting this thread back on topic......

 

If the Hurricanes and Blue Jackets can stay healthy / get healthy, I don't think they are in the 'sweepstakes'.

Sure, the Canes got off to a horrific start, and they may very well be a bottom tier team when all is said and done, but it's NOT because they don't have talent....they just don't have the DEPTH of talent it takes to withstand key injuries or slumps by their star players.

 

Jeff Skinner, Nathan Gerbe, Alexander Semin, Eric Staal, Jordan Staal up front..

Justin Faulk, Ron Hainsey on the blue line...

and a goaltending tandem of Cam Ward and Anton Khudobin.

 

That group there form a pretty decent core....problem for this team is, beyond those guys mentioned, there is precious little else.

Maybe a guy like Elias Lindholm or a Riley Nash can step things up...or guys on defense like JM Liles or Andrej Sekera become consistent forces on the blue line....

But the bottom line is, Carolina, as we have already seen, simply cannot afford injuries.

 

If they remain injury plagued throughout the season, then yes, they very well could be 'McDavid or Eichel' candidates...and we could also see some trade offs of vets if the season appears to be lost as well.

But healthy, hey, I do like this Canes' team to give teams fits, and pull out some wins some people don't think they can pull off.....and be much higher in the food chain than the Sabres....or even the Panthers and Oilers from what they are showing.

 

Blue Jackets? Kinda the same deal...cept they are more defense oriented and thus can probably withstand more injuries than the Canes and still be competitive.

They haven't thus far, simply because of the SHEER NUMBER of guys injured.

While the Canes can be hurt by one or two key guys going down, it will take much more than that to bring down a big, heavy, defensive minded team like the Jackets......and so far, that is exactly what has happened.

 

Watching some of the Bolts-Jackets game last night, I believe the announcer had said something like 8 regulars were out of the lineup. 

Eight. Wow....we are talking about a quarter of the team's roster??

But those guys, with the exception of Nathan Horton, will be coming back pretty soon, and when they do, I expect the Jackets to continue where they left off last season...and that is win games and, if they haven't fallen too far back, make it to the playoffs and cause problems there.

They play in the Metro, and aside from the Pens, NO ONE is running away with anything in there.

[yave1964]

@Polaris922

Any team in their right mind who was a bottom feeder would have been best to try to 'win' the right to have drafted Lemieux. A once in a lifetime chance.

The Devils tried like hell as well, they were positively wretched down the stretch but the Pens held on and got Lemieux instead of Kirk Muller who was not a bad consolation prize.

Yes, players have heart and want to win, but the crap the Penguins threw out there nightly was a bit worse than the Devils talent or lack thereof. You could make a case that the Devils were trying really hard to lose down the stretch, but the Penguins held on to the pick.

Polaris, there is no argument that you can make that would convince me that the Pens (and the Devils) were not tanking down the stretch. And i Don't blame them. My Wings had been positively wretched for years, the Dead Things era was coming to a close. I would have positively loved it if the Wings had tanked to have gotten Lemieux. And i would not have blamed them a bit.

[TropicalFruitGirl26]

Some scary long shots to end up in these 'sweepstakes'....

 

The Dallas Stars.

Honestly, they SHOULDN'T be in a bottom 5 race, but dammit, this team simply can't seem to keep the puck out of their net.

They are near last in the league in both goals against per game AND PK % (3.5 GA p/g and 76% respectively)...on top of that, they have given up 50 goals on the season in total...which puts them on par with the likes of the Oilers, Sabres, Avalanche, as far as defensive competency is concerned.

 

The Stars, as witnessed by last night's debacle against the Sharks also do NOT play with very much discipline, though they are a decent scoring team.

Still though, I recipe for disaster on the season, and if they aren't careful, come crunch time when they need to bear down when playing their Western Conference rivals, could find themselves on the bottom (way on the bottom) looking up.

 

Another scary thought is the Minnesota Wild possibly being on the bottom 5 group....I know, I know....hard to believe, as the Wild are supposed to be the OTHER way, moving towards Stanley Cup contendership.

 

But let's look at what is going on with the team:

The PP can't score to save it's life, Vanek and Pominville ARE NOT doing what they are on the team for...I.E. score goals....and other Wild players who COULD be picking the team up (Koivu, Granlund, Coyle) are simply not doing so.

 

Darcy Kuemper and Nik Backstrom have both looked pretty mortal in recent games (heaven help this team if they remain that way for the balance of the season) and the normally reliable defense has looked pretty ordinary lately as well.

Oh yea, and Zach Parise is out indefinitely with concussion symptoms...

 

Those trends should not hold true for this team over the course of 82 games, but I don't mind telling you, right now, things don't look good at all for Minnesota after having everything seemingly in place to make a deep Cup run.

I still can't see them being as bad as some other teams that should be in the bottom 5, but the way things are going, it could turn into a Wild fans' nightmare to suddenly see that

A) We may never know when Parise is coming back

B) Kuemper really ISN'T as good as we all thought, while Nik Backstrom's best days are FAR behind him

C) The Thomas Vanek we saw in the playoffs last year is the real Thomas Vanek ... I.E. ineffective

D) Mikael Granlund and Charlie Coyle, after showing much progression, all of a sudden hit a 'regression stage' (bad timing for it too) and struggle most of the season, before turning things around again...at which point, it may be too late.

and finally, E) The PP just doesn't have the right pieces, and it remains a bottom feeding unit all season long, which means, teams will have no fear in taking penalties and liberties against the team all season long.

 

Yes, that is a lot of pessimism and negativity, and the Wild should not be that bad overall (at least not as bad as the likes of a Buffalo), but still, the potential is there for this the team's fortunes to go south in a flippin hurry.....and after witnessing some pretty terribly played games by them recently, right now, I am not feeling all that confident in the team.