Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Cheesesteak]

It was the Minn game...night of Eric and John induction.

[murraycraven]

Don't worry.... I am sure thankful that we have a Coach that will just tell them to skate hard and compete. I heard the same BS from him after the fell last night.

Look, this team might not have the players but Berube is doing NOTHING to help this team. At best he is another very average coach and that is being generous.

[murraycraven]

So in the last 5 games we have had a player only meeting, the coach publicly criticize the players and a GM that flipped his **** on the players...

Someone tell me how this team is "putting out an effort just about every game." what am I missing?

[brelic]

So in the last 5 games we have had a player only meeting, the coach publicly criticize the players and a GM that flipped his **** on the players...

Someone tell me how this team is "putting out an effort just about every game." what am I missing?

 

I don't know - I look at it as someone telling a 3-year old "quit acting like a 3-year old."

 

It doesn't do any good at all.

[Samifan]

So in the last 5 games we have had a player only meeting, the coach publicly criticize the players and a GM that flipped his **** on the players...

Someone tell me how this team is "putting out an effort just about every game." what am I missing?

 

@MC- If they were to make a coaching change, who is out there at this point? Terry Murray or Riley Cote come up from Allentown? That would be the Flyer way!

[murraycraven]

@MC- If they were to make a coaching change, who is out there at this point? Terry Murray or Riley Cote come up from Allentown? That would be the Flyer way!

I know sami... That is the biggest question. I am sure they will promote Lappy and claim he is the brightest mind in hockey

[canoli]

Meanwhile, the Black Hawks win the Cup, jettison a sizeable portion of their team, including their starting goalie, and they're right back at it. Yes, they kept their core, but so have the Flyers.

 

Richards/Carter/Pronger/Timonen [edit: somebody else i'm forgetting] - that's the core I think of, but I'm not sure which core you mean. The Flyers blew up that core, injury claimed the rest.

 

I don't have any problem watching the Flyers this year. This is what transitioning looks like. Thank god it looks like this - remember from BC to Homer? Nothing changed.

 

Give Hextall some time; maybe we get Babcock next year...

[ruxpin]

Richards/Carter/Pronger/Timonen [edit: somebody else i'm forgetting] - that's the core I think of, but I'm not sure which core you mean. The Flyers blew up that core, injury claimed the rest.

I don't have any problem watching the Flyers this year. This is what transitioning looks like. Thank god it looks like this - remember from BC to Homer? Nothing changed.

Give Hextall some time; maybe we get Babcock next year...

Well, clearly I'm not talking about that group. Read the context and meaning generally becomes easier.

Just to make it easier, I'm not talking about Kerr, Poulin, Propp and Howe either.

[ruxpin]

We have had the CURRENT core for three years now. Giroux, Vorachek, Simmonds, Read, Couturier, Schenn (B, for idiots who will ask which one) and Coburn.

Others have been here multiple years. I was responding to the "gel" idea and rejecting it (obviously). The point about Chicago was not to go back to that time (obviously) but to show a team that turned over significant players and kept marching.

In today's NHL with cap issues and free agency, etc. a lot of teams have turnover. We are actually better off than a lot of teams in that regard.

So since most of the team played with the Flyers last year and actually had a decent finish, I reject the "gel" thing.

OF COURSE I wasn't talking about Richards et al.; that's not at all relevant.

[Podein25]

 I reject the "gel" thing. 

 

 

Ok, but how do you feel about frosted tips?

[ruxpin]

Ok, but how do you feel about frosted tips?

Hmm, you may be on to something

[canoli]

 

Well, clearly I'm not talking about that group. Read the context and meaning generally becomes easier.

Just to make it easier, I'm not talking about Kerr, Poulin, Propp and Howe either.

 

 

Fine, Clarke Barber and Leach then. Still the same story...

[ruxpin]

Fine, Clarke Barber and Leach then. Still the same story...

 

LOL!

[mojo1917]

this has been a good read to this point.

 

now i'm going to ruin it with my two cents.

 

IMO the problem with this team is the addition of VLC and Umberger plus the subtraction of Hartnell.

Hartnell may be a shitty skater and took stupid penalties far too often, but he was  a "great ******* teammate" the guy that would collect the puck from the net after his rookie linemate scored his first NHL , while he himself was mired in horrendous slump.  He was the guy that had his guys' back.  He was a team veteran.  He was a glue guy, a guy that maybe wasn't the best player but always plays on winning teams.  Anyone remember Gary Matthews from the good Cubs teams of the late 70's and early 80's and then he was on some good Phillie teams...?  Hartnell's absence has created a leadership void in the room, he lead the way with "play for one another" through his actions, there is no one picking up that slack. There are many new faces on the team and they don't have his teammate example to follow.

 

That said they are also too slow, I said this somewhere else, many of our guys cannot avoid being checked because they lack foot speed, they cannot dump and chase and with the foot race.  

 

All the "transitioning" talk is just that, the guys that can play the way Chief wants to play are in Allentown, they aren't big enough or experienced enough to play this way in the NHL, yet.  Leier  has the potential , Alt has the potential, Hagg, maybe Alderson and Straka...if the LHV players can develop to be NHL players then Chief will have the puck pursuit center lock roster he desires...  

 

I truly think when he says they need to skate harder and compete more, he's right, our NHL guys after the 1st line and few others are too easily knocked off the puck if we're going to be slow we need to be tougher to play.  

[ruxpin]

this has been a good read to this point.

 

now i'm going to ruin it with my two cents.

 

IMO the problem with this team is the addition of VLC and Umberger plus the subtraction of Hartnell.

Hartnell may be a shitty skater and took stupid penalties far too often, but he was  a "great ****** teammate" the guy that would collect the puck from the net after his rookie linemate scored his first NHL , while he himself was mired in horrendous slump.  He was the guy that had his guys' back.  He was a team veteran.  He was a glue guy, a guy that maybe wasn't the best player but always plays on winning teams.  Anyone remember Gary Matthews from the good Cubs teams of the late 70's and early 80's and then he was on some good Phillie teams...?  Hartnell's absence has created a leadership void in the room, he lead the way with "play for one another" through his actions, there is no one picking up that slack. There are many new faces on the team and they don't have his teammate example to follow.

 

That said they are also too slow, I said this somewhere else, many of our guys cannot avoid being checked because they lack foot speed, they cannot dump and chase and with the foot race.  

 

All the "transitioning" talk is just that, the guys that can play the way Chief wants to play are in Allentown, they aren't big enough or experienced enough to play this way in the NHL, yet.  Leier  has the potential , Alt has the potential, Hagg, maybe Alderson and Straka...if the LHV players can develop to be NHL players then Chief will have the puck pursuit center lock roster he desires...  

 

I truly think when he says they need to skate harder and compete more, he's right, our NHL guys after the 1st line and few others are too easily knocked off the puck if we're going to be slow we need to be tougher to play.  

 

Beautiful post.  Nicely said.  Can't argue with any of it.

[brelic]

Beautiful post.  Nicely said.  Can't argue with any of it.

 

Oh c'mon rux! You're not trying hard enough!

 

[ruxpin]

5-10 years from now, the national media will be referring to the the Flyers as, "the once proud franchise..." like they've done for the past decade with the Islanders.

[Mad Dog]

5-10 years from now, the national media will be referring to the the Flyers as, "the once proud franchise..." like they've done for the past decade with the Islanders.

 

5-10 years?  Why wait? 

 

In all seriousness though, people are not saying it, but I am sure at least thinking it. It's sad what became of the Flyers really in the entire post-Lindros era. And it's both astounding and disconcerting. And while the demise has not been even close to as dramatic and extraordinary as it has been for the Isles (who have only been in the playoffs... what........ only once in the last 20 years?), the overall lack of success has been similar. They have been declining and they have been declining steadily. Now... I know people will try to reference several trips to the Finals and conference finals, but let's be honest with ourselves. Other than the 2004 season, when Flyers lost to Tampa in semis, were they really ever close to winning the Cup?

 

What people will remember is constant head coach merry-go-round (which only seems to continue in not so distant future), beyond ridiculous inability to find the right goaltender, the lack of leadership, and just one disappointment after another. Entering in almost a 40^th anniversary of cupless epoch, and they *still* refuse to learn. 

 

All one can do is just shake his head in both disgust and disbelief.

[mojo1917]

5-10 years?  Why wait? 

 

In all seriousness though, people are not saying it, but I am sure at least thinking it. It's sad what became of the Flyers really in the entire post-Lindros era. And it's both astounding and disconcerting. And while the demise has not been even close to as dramatic and extraordinary as it has been for the Isles (who have only been in the playoffs... what........ only once in the last 20 years?), the overall lack of success has been similar. They have been declining and they have been declining steadily. Now... I know people will try to reference several trips to the Finals and conference finals, but let's be honest with ourselves. Other than the 2004 season, when Flyers lost to Tampa in semis, were they really ever close to winning the Cup?

 

What people will remember is constant head coach merry-go-round (which only seems to continue in not so distant future), beyond ridiculous inability to find the right goaltender, the lack of leadership, and just one disappointment after another. Entering in almost a 40^th anniversary of cupless epoch, and they *still* refuse to learn. 

 

All one can do is just shake his head in both disgust and disbelief.

The '10 team could have won.

That "core" was to 2 ECF finals a cup finals and lost to the cup champs 3 years in a row.

Means not much today , still it shouldn't be dismissed as a fluke. That group was good.

[Mad Dog]

The '10 team could have won.

That "core" was to 2 ECF finals a cup finals and lost to the cup champs 3 years in a row.

Means not much today , still it shouldn't be dismissed as a fluke. That group was good.

 

I call it a fool's gold.  Sorry. John Stevens' team was *not* a good team.  And when you barely make it to the playoffs, you CANNOT be viewed as a good team.  A fluke may be a strong word, but cards were just falling right for the Flyers several times.

 

I look at teams like Boston, Chicago and LA.  Those teams were built the right way, hence the outcome.  The Flyers repeat the same crap year after year after year. 

[mojo1917]

I call it a fool's gold.  Sorry. John Stevens' team was *not* a good team.  And when you barely make it to the playoffs, you CANNOT be viewed as a good team.  A fluke may be a strong word, but cards were just falling right for the Flyers several times.

 

I look at teams like Boston, Chicago and LA.  Those teams were built the right way, hence the outcome.  The Flyers repeat the same crap year after year after year. 

Difficult to know what would have become of that group had they been kept together.

Lavy turned that group around and they were formidable.  look at the roster and tell me they were a bad team? you can't honestly do that.

 

When I look at that lineup we had scoring from scott Hartnell on the third line or second line.  That 10 team had some guts and so what, they made the playoffs on the last day, they made the most of the opportunity. 

[Mad Dog]

Difficult to know what would have become of that group had they been kept together.

Lavy turned that group around and they were formidable.  look at the roster and tell me they were a bad team? you can't honestly do that.

 

When I look at that lineup we had scoring from scott Hartnell on the third line or second line.  That 10 team had some guts and so what, they made the playoffs on the last day, they made the most of the opportunity. 

 

I get your point, Mojo, but I guess I am looking at the Flyers in their totality.  Yes, the 2009-2010 Flyers were a different team. The team that beat Boston in 7 games after trailing by 3 games and 3 goals in Game 7 was a special team. I am not taking anything away from that. But what they have accomplished (which isn't much, really) gets lost a little when looked at what was happening that year.  You can't disregard the fact that the team fired Stevens in December after the team unraveled and that they played the season with Emery, Boucher and Leighton being their goalies.  And the season after (2010) was when I feel like things really started going sour.  The Flyers again played with 3 goalies and I really feel like that was the defining year for Laviolette when he just lost it.  He had no clue what he was doing with his netminders and they had no shot against Boston in the second round of those playoffs.

 

I realize people need to cling to something positive, and I am on board with that.  The truth remains this was a poorly constructed, porly managed, and poorly coached team over a very long period of time.  What's happening with this team now is only a microcasm of what has been plaguing them for.... well really as far as I can remember.  Like I said, in the entire post-Lindros era, that year when they were coached by Hitch and went to the ECF and lost to Tampa was really the only legit shot they trully had at winning the Cup.  In fact, that year the team didn't reach the Finals, but had a much better shot at winning than the 2009 team that *did* go to the Flinals. 

 

And the year after, they were average at best.  Again, I don't deminish the accoimplishments of the 2009-2010 team.  But they didn't win and honestly had no shot winning with that goaltending.  And that's what typifies the Flyers and what I have been lamenting for a long time: they could get lucky but never actually had any patience or plan because they felt like every year was *their* year... even if it wasn't... 

 

And now it really looks like that horrid approach finally reached its culmination point, which is only a logical conclusion of how they ran the franchise.  You reap what you sow.  And Snider was sowing crap for decades.