Hextall year-end presser - 2pm EST

[brelic]

Talking and execution are two different things... time will tell here.

 

I think Hextall's been true to his word so far, wouldn't you say? His actions have reflected his words.

[FD19372]

Snider had the high voltage probes on Hexy if he said anything "wrong", I'm sure.

[murraycraven]

I think Hextall's been true to his word so far, wouldn't you say? His actions have reflected his words.

 

I do as well but maybe to an slighter extent.   Right now he is pretty much handcuffed by some ludicrous contracts so I think he is limited in his ability to wheel and deal.  However, he has shown patience w/ the kids which is nice. Truthfully, he has made some very good moves with the signings off the scrap-heap this year.   I still think he came across a bit smug about "doing the Umberger deal" over again.  That deal was a monumental failure.   

 

When grading Hextall I reall think I would say it is incomplete.  He has a very tough job ahead of him and it will not be easy.   I am in wait and see mode here...  

[FD19372]

I do as well but maybe to an slighter extent.   Right now he is pretty much handcuffed by some ludicrous contracts so I think he is limited in his ability to wheel and deal.  However, he has shown patience w/ the kids which is nice. Truthfully, he has made some very good moves with the signings off the scrap-heap this year.   I still think he came across a bit smug about "doing the Umberger deal" over again.  That deal was a monumental failure.   

 

When grading Hextall I reall think I would say it is incomplete.  He has a very tough job ahead of him and it will not be easy.   I am in wait and see mode here...  

IMHO, Hartnell didn't like Berube and wanted out. Again, of all the Flyers worst problems, that was about #10 on the list.

[Bertmega]

@brelic

"I didn't interpret this presser as "lip service" or a "show" at all."

 

 Hey I some beach front property in Arizona if you're interested....

 

A 45 minute nothing presser that cleared up ZERO questions regarding the teams future is just that, nothing.....

 

Oh well, I'll re-watch it again with my orange tinted glasses on. Maybe this time I'll get something out of it.

 

I took a moment to think about it and re-read your post. I wasn't hoping that he'd be out for blood regarding Berube, I just am sick of hearing some of the same old tread with these GMs. 

[radoran]

I still think he came across a bit smug about "doing the Umberger deal" over again. That deal was a monumental failure.

 

27 goals, 58 points traded away for a guy who put up 9 goals, 15 points and flamed out at the end of the deal?

 

"Monumental" might be a bit of an understatement.

 

$4.75M looking pretty darn good for a guy who put up 27 goals and 58 points, no? HAS to be better than $4.6M for 9g/15p...

 

That said, Hextall has to say he would do it again or he looks like a complete buffoon and basically throws a player under contract for two more years completely under the bus.

 

A few more deals like that, though, and most GMs are out of a job..

 

For me, it shows the inherent folly of making a deal with the primary goal of cap relief - three years later.

[Bertmega]

@radoran

 

Supposedly, Umberger is going to train with George Whitfield Jr in the off season..

[Samifan]

I turned it off immediately after hearing no decision had been made on Berube. Did they give the annual end of season run down of players injuries or who will need off season surgeries?

[radoran]

@radoran

 

Supposedly, Umberger is going to train with George Whitfield Jr in the off season..

 

Is he going to back up Tebow as fourth string QB for the Eagles? I thought he went to Ohio State not Oregon (State).

 

GO BEAVERS!

 

[brelic]

I do as well but maybe to an slighter extent.   Right now he is pretty much handcuffed by some ludicrous contracts so I think he is limited in his ability to wheel and deal.

 

For sure! And it wasn't for a lack of trying to move VLC, for example. He also said at some point during the season that any deal with another team would have to involve them taking a bad contract back. So he knows he's handcuffed and tried to do something about it. No takers, apparently - or at least none that offered anything remotely reasonable. 

 

I still think he came across a bit smug about "doing the Umberger deal" over again.  That deal was a monumental failure.   

 

Yeah, I can see that. Maybe he was trying to rationalize it. I also agree with him that it's easy to look at it after year 1 and think it was a failure - but Hartnell's contract runs 5 years, so what about at the end of year 3, when Umberger is gone, and Hartnell still has 2 more years with declining skills? It would be VLC all over again. There is no doubt that we got screwed on the deal in year 1. 

 

When grading Hextall I reall think I would say it is incomplete.  He has a very tough job ahead of him and it will not be easy.   I am in wait and see mode here...  

 

Me too. So far, though, he has done the right things IMO that link up with the vision he's been selling fans. Patience, hanging on to the kids, acquiring draft picks to build through the draft. I guess what I'm saying is that I agree that he can't be fully graded after year 1, but he's done enough of the right things that give me faith in his vision moving forward.

[brelic]

@brelic

"I didn't interpret this presser as "lip service" or a "show" at all."

 

 Hey I some beach front property in Arizona if you're interested....

 

A 45 minute nothing presser that cleared up ZERO questions regarding the teams future is just that, nothing.....

 

Oh well, I'll re-watch it again with my orange tinted glasses on. Maybe this time I'll get something out of it.

 

I took a moment to think about it and re-read your post. I wasn't hoping that he'd be out for blood regarding Berube, I just am sick of hearing some of the same old tread with these GMs. 

 

It sounds like you expected something different. Ok, let me ask you this - what were you expecting to hear from his presser? What could he have said that would make you nod your head and say, "Yeah, that's what I'm talking about."?

[murraycraven]

IMHO, Hartnell didn't like Berube and wanted out. Again, of all the Flyers worst problems, that was about #10 on the list.

I think hartnell wanted no part of being traded and was quoted as saying as mucf. Furthermore, Hextall is on record saying that Hartnell was shocked and needed time to decide and speak to the Jackets before approving the trade.

For the sake of brevity I defer to rads post which sums up my thoughts perfectly.

[King Knut]

At this point it's sunny out.

The Flyers seem to have recruited their Comms people from Albania or something. Truly awful.

I think we need to give Hextall a bit more credit here. I Interpret "evaluating" to include the potential replacements.

There's an argument to be made that the guy he "really wants" might be more available in a year and Hextall has to weight dumping chief now and going with someone he may want a little less vs dumping him later for someone he does really want.

Also, maybe he's got his eye on someone in the playoffs now and is waiting for their elimination and subsequent frustration to get the better of them.

It's just not a time to announce this yet.

And press conferences can just be a response to behind the scenes pressure from the press.

If you're getting 40'calls a day from a beat reporter who suddenly has no beat because your team skunked their playoff run, it's easier to hold a pressed and give them all a story to write about your lack of a story.

Gives them something to write about besides Vinny and his Agent anyway.

[radoran]

For sure! And it wasn't for a lack of trying to move VLC, for example. He also said at some point during the season that any deal with another team would have to involve them taking a bad contract back. So he knows he's handcuffed and tried to do something about it. No takers, apparently - or at least none that offered anything remotely reasonable.

Yeah, I can see that. Maybe he was trying to rationalize it. I also agree with him that it's easy to look at it after year 1 and think it was a failure - but Hartnell's contract runs 5 years, so what about at the end of year 3, when Umberger is gone, and Hartnell still has 2 more years with declining skills? It would be VLC all over again. There is no doubt that we got screwed on the deal in year 1.

This doesn't at all say why they couldn't have gotten a similarly terrible deal in year 3 and still have a 27 goal scoring LW on the top line instead of 9 goals on the third...

[Podein25]

I think we need to give Hextall a bit more credit here. I Interpret "evaluating" to include the potential replacements.

There's an argument to be made that the guy he "really wants" might be more available in a year and Hextall has to weight dumping chief now and going with someone he may want a little less vs dumping him later for someone he does really want.

Also, maybe he's got his eye on someone in the playoffs now and is waiting for their elimination and subsequent frustration to get the better of them.

It's just not a time to announce this yet.

And press conferences can just be a response to behind the scenes pressure from the press.

If you're getting 40'calls a day from a beat reporter who suddenly has no beat because your team skunked their playoff run, it's easier to hold a pressed and give them all a story to write about your lack of a story.

Gives them something to write about besides Vinny and his Agent anyway.

I get all that, but find today's strategy lame. Firing Berube would have at least been a decisive first act toward positive change. That they chose *insipid* instead of decisive speaks volumes to me.

But whatever, it's ultimately a small point I'm making.

[OccamsRazor]

I get all that, but find today's strategy lame. Firing Berube would have at least been a decisive first act toward positive change. That they chose *insipid* instead of decisive speaks volumes to me.

But whatever, it's ultimately a small point I'm making.

 

 

The only sense i can make of not canning him today is they are waiting for his replacement to be available first. Meaning is his replacement or the guy they want is still employed and as soon as he becomes available they will fire him.....i guess i'd be ok with this...but regardless i want him gone A.S.A.P.!!!!!

[brelic]

This doesn't at all say why they couldn't have gotten a similarly terrible deal in year 3 and still have a 27 goal scoring LW on the top line instead of 9 goals on the third...

 

Yes, but you know that wasn't why he was traded - at least if you believe the early reports around the time of the trade. There were questions about Hartnell's commitment to fitness. Did Chief's opinion of Hartnell's poor fitness level figure into Hextall's decision? Or did Hextall arrive at the same conclusion on his own? It wasn't just a goals and points decision. Just based on what I've read, I would say commitment to fitness and contract length were higher priority factors that led to the trade.

 

Would you agree with that?

[murraycraven]

@ brelic...   there were always questions surrounding Jake's commitment to fitness as well.  I dont think that played a part in the trade at all.   If Hextall decided to trade a true leader in the locker room who happens to be a true first line winger that produces every year for a guy that was committed to fitness then we are all screwed.   If this is the case Hextall is indeed another puppet...

 

Hartnell was the backbone (and Kimmo) of that locker room and all the while was a pretty damn good player for the Flyers (now a pretty damn good player w/ the Jackets).   If that was the reason for brining Umberger back to Philly I think this organization is in some pretty bad hands.  Sure, bring RJ back and let him play at a sub-par AHL level for a few years.  Meanwhile, Hartnell is putting up numbers as usual...   all the while we are now again in need of leadership and a first line winger. Go figure...

[Bertmega]

@brelic

 

He could have started by saying that Bert is awesome, but I understand that he was busy. 

 

Seriously though, I think stating that they are exploring better options at forward, or that they will be aggressively looking to get the defense in order would have been nice. 

 

Instead we get more of the no youth for washed up vets and he is assessing the team from top to bottom. Wasn't that what the entire 82 game 14-15 season was for? I know he can't come out right and say that player X, Y or Z will be gone, but give an indication of what his intentions are. The way he made it sound is that the fans need to be patient forever and accept being the Panthers North until he gets a game plan. 

 

Firing Berube would have been a great start in the organizational change, but I suspect he hasn't been fired yet because Snider is frantically making room on his executive staff for him.

[radoran]

Yes, but you know that wasn't why he was traded - at least if you believe the early reports around the time of the trade. There were questions about Hartnell's commitment to fitness. Did Chief's opinion of Hartnell's poor fitness level figure into Hextall's decision? Or did Hextall arrive at the same conclusion on his own? It wasn't just a goals and points decision. Just based on what I've read, I would say commitment to fitness and contract length were higher priority factors that led to the trade.

 

Would you agree with that?

 

The guy just went out and put up 27 goals and 58 points in this league. How many players do that that aren't "fit"?

 

Moreover, why did the team extend a guy who wasn't "fit" (let's recall that Chief has been an assistant coach for all(?) of Hartnell's time here - where did Hartnell pick up these "bad habits" that weren't noticed until after they signed him to a six year extension)?

 

Again, the contract length could have been handled at any time - there was no pressing "need" to do it when Hextall did. And they picked up a similarly bad contract. They couldn't have gotten a similarly bad deal at any time in the next three years? I do. not. buy. it.

 

It might make sense if they buy out Umburglar this year - the cap hit and terms would be lower than Hartnell - but for some reason I don't see them doing it. Hope to be wrong.

 

Here's what Hextall actually said when the trade went down: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/flyers/Flyers-trade-Hartnell-get-Umberger-in-return.html

 

 

“Whenever you make a deal, there’s a lot of considerations that come into the mix, but I guess the one driving the bus was quickness,” Hextall said Monday afternoon, shortly after the trade was announced. “I think if you look at R.J., he’s a versatile player. He’s a good skater. He’s a good two-way player, and he plays all three positions. He can kill penalties. So he was an attractive guy for us moving forward.”

 

"Quicknes"?? Umburglar!?!?

 

 

“He’s a good hockey player. He played well for the Philadelphia Flyers and he’s going to play well in Columbus,” Hextall said. “He’s still got hockey left in him. But again, I think the versatility, the length of the contract and the speed are some of the main points that we thought about here and why we made the move. Columbus is probably looking for some leadership and a veteran player who can score goals and they got what they wanted there, too. So I think it’s a hockey trade and I think it’s a good trade for both teams.”

It's reflection of the state of the team that we obviously can't believe anything they're saying and that there must be something more to it.

Except that they have made these stupid moves so often.

For example, trading away two top line LWs and then turning around looking amazed saying "gosh, why don't we have a top line LW?"

It's a mystery.

Or something.

[OccamsRazor]

Yes, but you know that wasn't why he was traded - at least if you believe the early reports around the time of the trade. There were questions about Hartnell's commitment to fitness. Did Chief's opinion of Hartnell's poor fitness level figure into Hextall's decision? Or did Hextall arrive at the same conclusion on his own? It wasn't just a goals and points decision. Just based on what I've read, I would say commitment to fitness and contract length were higher priority factors that led to the trade.

Would you agree with that?

All that on top of he had just come off a disapointing playoffs versus the Rangers and which when he wasn't falling down he was just getting outhustled and outmuscled and only had 3 measly assists. And IIRC he took 2 bad penalties.

Combined that wih the fact on a couple goals he took his time backchecking and the Rangers scored on....well when they reviewed the tape Berube had to be livid.

So combined with the contract...well buh bye.

And like the JVR trade i don't regret it...i just didn't like the return, i think like for both i would preferred others or at least more than what they got back.

[King Knut]

I get all that, but find today's strategy lame. Firing Berube would have at least been a decisive first act toward positive change. That they chose *insipid* instead of decisive speaks volumes to me.

But whatever, it's ultimately a small point I'm making.

It seemed to me like Hextall wanted to be anywhere but there so I don't interpret it as muh of a choice.

Meanwhile how about the Bruins firing their GM! Gets them a cup and they fire him for getting them into cap trouble a few years later. Imagine a thing like that.

[radoran]

And like the JVR trade i don't regret it...i just didn't like the return, i think like for both i would preferred others or at least more than what they got back.

As I've said many times, I'd trade anybody on the roster for the right deal.

 

The JVR trade was the wrong deal.

 

The Umburglar trade was the wrong deal.

[brelic]

He could have started by saying that Bert is awesome, but I understand that he was busy. 

 

Oh, you must have tuned out early. That was his parting quote

 

Seriously though, I think stating that they are exploring better options at forward, or that they will be aggressively looking to get the defense in order would have been nice. 

 

He did. He said his wishlist is a top 6 forward and a top defenseman. 

 

If he says anything more committal, you just know there will be media backlash because it just isn't possible to acquire a top defenseman in the league without giving away a lot of assets. And then you'd have to question why such a defenseman was available in the first place. Same with top line wingers. These players don't grow on trees and they aren't cheap. I mean, some people want to trade away Voracek, but I would take the news as a punch in the gut. He's one of the few exciting things to watch on this team.

 

I think it was smart to leave it at "wishlist." The reality is we're not going to acquire the player we want for what Hextall seems to be comfortable offering. If no kids or draft picks are part of it, Hextall ain't getting squat.

 

I know he can't come out right and say that player X, Y or Z will be gone, but give an indication of what his intentions are.

 

Can you be more specific? What would that look like? He said a resounding no to buying out VLC (or was it Umberger?). He made it very clear that he has no interest in trading Couturier because he's so young and so talented - they're just at the tip of the iceberg with his development. He mentioned the strong leaps that Jake, Simmer, and Mason took toward leadership. He also mentioned that Streit and Schultz are part of that leadership group. What was missed was Timonen's calming influence - and he seems confident that the guys are going to develop into those roles. He mentioned that MDZ is an RFA and he doesn't anticipate any problem in re-signing him. He mentioned that Umberger has committed to coming back fully healthy and in optimal shape. He mentioned that Voracek is committed to continuing his fitness program.

 

What other kinds of intentions were you expecting from Hextall?

 

Firing Berube would have been a great start in the organizational change, but I suspect he hasn't been fired yet because Snider is frantically making room on his executive staff for him.

 

VP of Popped Kernel Operations and Distribution.

 

"He's our coach. If anything changes, I'll let you know." That's one heckuva weak endorsement for the coach. Berube has nothing to do with the players until August, so what's the rush? A decision will be made by the UFA period, I'm guessing.

 

The coaching landscape should be clear by then.

[King Knut]

27 goals, 58 points traded away for a guy who put up 9 goals, 15 points and flamed out at the end of the deal?

"Monumental" might be a bit of an understatement.

$4.75M looking pretty darn good for a guy who put up 27 goals and 58 points, no? HAS to be better than $4.6M for 9g/15p...

That said, Hextall has to say he would do it again or he looks like a complete buffoon and basically throws a player under contract for two more years completely under the bus.

A few more deals like that, though, and most GMs are out of a job..

For me, it shows the inherent folly of making a deal with the primary goal of cap relief - three years later.

The subtext of "I'd do it again" is that Hexy knew the next two seasons were already gone when he made the deal. Harts handcuffs the team for five years and isn't good enough to get them winnjng all by his lonesome. Umberger does the same for three.

The fact that Umberger was far worse than Hartnell would have been is irrelevant when viewed at its essence. Hextall never makes that trade for the player. He traded the contract.

Was it. Easier than convincing Hartnell to play on line 3?

We won't be able to appreciate this deal until we sign or resign whoever we sign in 2017.