JR Ewing Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The NHL isn't the best example of this because they tend to be more generous with who they let in. I think it happens much more often in baseball. Yes, I do think this is something we could say applies more to baseball. If an NHL wins an MVP and isn't put in the HOF, he's an absolute oddity. Baseball? Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottM Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Yes, I do think this is something we could say applies more to baseball. If an NHL wins an MVP and isn't put in the HOF, he's an absolute oddity. Baseball? Absolutely not. In fact, to show you how rare it is for an MVP to be left out in the NHL, there are a grand total of four eligible Hart Trophy winners that aren't in the Hall. Fedorov and Lindros have already been mentioned as snubs, and the only other two are Tom Anderson, who won the Hart in 1942, and Al Rollins, who won it in 1954 are the only other two. Anderson seems kind of unlikely, but there could be a strong case for Rollins, in my mind. In addition to his Hart win, he also had a second place finish, and in his rookie year, he won the Vezina and backstopped the Maple Leafs to the Stanley Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 There's always debate as to whether or not this guy or that guy should go into the Hall of Fame. There are some guys that are true borderline cases, and it's hard to guess whether or not they'll ever get in. Then again, I'm sure we can all think of some players or coaches that we feel should be no doubt HOF'ers that for some reason or another have never been enshrined. This thread is your chance to make your case for someone you feel has been snubbed and that you believe should be in. I'll start it off with Dave Andreychuk. The case against Andreychuk is almost always something like this: "He was a complier. He never had a 100 point season. He was a journeyman." Personally, I think the case for him is much stronger. Was he a compiler? Maybe to a degree, but that was thanks to his longevity. He is sixth all-time in NHL games played. That kind of longevity speaks of a high level of durability. Btw, in all those years of "compiling," he racked up a whopping 640 goals, placing him 14th all-time in goals scored. Only 18 players have ever reached the 600 goal plateau, and he's the only one of them not in the Hall of Fame. He's the all-time leader in power play goals. Twice he led the league in markers on the man advantage. Near the end of his career, he definitively proved his leadership ability with the Tampa Bay Lightning. He surprised many when he signed with the Lightning, since they were not on the radar as a contender. After they missed the playoffs in his first season, he refused a trade. The next season he was named captain and led the Bolts to the playoffs, snapping a seven season drought. Then, finally, after 22 years, he hoisted the Stanley Cup as Tampa Bay notched its first NHL title. Personally, I find it hard to believe they would have done so without him. Okay, you've read about my top pick. Give us yours.Dave Andreychuk shouldnt get inducted to the HHOF....You want to induct him based on his longevity and PP? Sorry, Alot of players could have played as long as he had, its all a matter of getting lucky with injuries. Plus, this guy never hit 100 points in the 80s when other no name players hit 100 points atleast once. And complier maybe to a degree? I think its pretty clear he was most certainly a complier. And dont forget, he was never top 10 in assists, points, or goals. Atleast players like Sundin, Alfredsson and Modano where top 10 in one of those categories more than once and actually hit the 100 point mark atleast once, and they were compliers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 A few other snubs IMO. Ok, so i didnt even know this guy was not in the HHOF and i was rather surprised.....Theo Fleury.Was the best player when he was on the flames for the most part. And he was actually top ten in something to my surprise. Points 1990-91 NHL 104 (8)1994-95 NHL 58 (6)1998-99 NHL 93 (7) Assists 1997-98 NHL 51 (7)1998-99 NHL 53 (6) And im pretty sure there are a few players with similar stats that are in the HHOF Also, why isn't Kariya in? He was consistently one of the best players during the mid 90s and ending up with a career ppg in the dead puck era is truly an impressive feat.And during his prime in Anaheim, he was basically equal to Teemu Selanne, arguably even better. He was even a Hart runner up.Here are his top ten finishes. Assists 1998-99 NHL 62 (3)2002-03 NHL 56 (8) Goals 1995-96 NHL 50 (7)1996-97 NHL 44 (9)1998-99 NHL 39 (10)1999-00 NHL 42 (4) Points 1995-96 NHL 108 (7)1996-97 NHL 99 (3)1998-99 NHL 101 (3)1999-00 NHL 86 (4) Looks like HHOF to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Fleury: Probably because of the issues late in his career pertaining to substance abuse (if I recall correctly). Kariya: Probably because he completely fell off the map in the second half of his career and didn't play like a HOF player during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Fleury: Probably because of the issues late in his career pertaining to substance abuse (if I recall correctly). Kariya: Probably because he completely fell off the map in the second half of his career and didn't play like a HOF player during that time.yea....but dino ciccarelli is in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 yea....but dino ciccarelli is in.... The good ol' Clark Gillies argument... http://web.archive.org/web/20060517130700/http://members.shaw.ca/hbtn/player_study/hof_debate.htm Not sure when I wrote that. 2003, perhaps. Maybe '04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The good ol' Clark Gillies argument... http://web.archive.org/web/20060517130700/http://members.shaw.ca/hbtn/player_study/hof_debate.htm Not sure when I wrote that. 2003, perhaps. Maybe '04.I was not trying to say if this bad player can get in, then Fleury should. I ment that if Theo Fleury is not in for substance abuse, why is dino ciccarelli in? Because he was pleaded guilty for indecent exposure and recieved probation. Then he attacked maple leafs rookie defenseman luke richardson with his stick and was fined $1000 and sentenced one day to jail.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR Ewing Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I was not trying to say if this bad player can get in, then Fleury should. I ment that if Theo Fleury is not in for substance abuse, why is dino ciccarelli in? Because he was pleaded guilty for indecent exposure and recieved probation. Then he attacked maple leafs rookie defenseman luke richardson with his stick and was fined $1000 and sentenced one day to jail.... It's the same sort of argument, but where the truck is backed in rather than going forward: "this guy got in despite off-ice problems, why not that guy?" Anyway. It's a side-point, really. Honestly, I don't disagree with your take on Fleury. I think he was better than Ciccarelli: he had 59 more Adjust Points in 148 fewer games, didn't have the gracious offensive environment, and if he wasn't out of the game due to personal problems, he'd have compiled even better career numbers. Regarding off-ice: I don't look down on Fleury one little bit for his issues, and I wish people wouldn't hold that against him. He was the victim of repeated sexual assaults, and came from a home where both of his parents suffered through substance abuse. He never knew safety or stability, and it's a wonder he was able to make the career that he did. Cicarreli? His problems were actual character issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Chris Pronger becomes eligible this year and I know a lot of folks love or hate him, but he better be a first ballot. Pronger being eligible while still under contract to an NHL franchise is a joke. The guy belongs in the Hall, fine. They didn't need to change the rules to get him their sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordsOfWisdom Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 yea....but dino ciccarelli is in.... Yeah. I just think it's a "PR" thing with the league. Toward the end of Fleury's career he was becoming a side show, attracting negative attention to the NHL. I think they just wanted him to disappear (ie: get out of the spotlight and be forgotten). Pro sports leagues work hard to bury players that create bad publicity for their league. ie: Jose Canseco in baseball. Was he a Hall of Fame slugger? Pete Rose is another example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom I agree, Theo, especially near the end gave the NHL a black eye...little newsflash Theo, if you want to be placed with the all time greats, I'd avoid that at all costs... Since we are talking snubs, has anyone mentioned Bernie Federko....a great player in his era, TONS of top 10 point finishes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 @WordsOfWisdom I agree, Theo, especially near the end gave the NHL a black eye...little newsflash Theo, if you want to be placed with the all time greats, I'd avoid that at all costs... Since we are talking snubs, has anyone mentioned Bernie Federko....a great player in his era, TONS of top 10 point finishes....He is in the HHOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yave1964 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 @jammer2 Federko is in. Still haven't forgiven the Wings for trading Oates for Federko. WTF were they thinking>? Can you imagine the top three centers being Yzerman, Federov and Oates, all in their prime? Good lord how many cups would that have made for? BTW Bernie announces in St. Louis, possibly the worst announcer in all of hockey.And that is a tall order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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