The "Crow or Gripe About Your Fantasy Team" Thread: 2015-16 Edition

[JR Ewing]

I wouldn't mind if ESPN did away with all of the dual eligibility. Yahoo gives it out dual positions like candy.  It takes away the challenge it used to having to drop a RW to get a LW or a Center.  Call a spade a spade.  Come the course of the season if that player changes positions - tough.   In the Philly.com league which is a yahoo league, is barely a challenge deciding who should play each day.  

 

In the ESPN league we do have the Utility position for a manager to choose to play a center or a talented Winger with 4 starts that week.   Either keep the player, trade'em or drop for a different player in free agency.  This league imo is set up so that there should always be quality players to add and drop.

 

So far after a month into the season the only things I think we may need to adjust for next year is to lessen the value of face offs from maybe 0.2 pts to 0.15.  But then I don't really mind it the way it is either as teams really don't need more than 4 centers on a roster.  Having 4 quality d-men on a roster isn't an easy achievement either so maybe we could drop it to 3 d-men next year and add another utiility player.

 

That sounds fine by me. There's always an inefficiency or part of the system that GMs will find if they're looking. That was this year's.

[pilldoc]

I wouldn't mind if ESPN did away with all of the dual eligibility. Yahoo gives it out dual positions like candy.  It takes away the challenge it used to having to drop a RW to get a LW or a Center.  Call a spade a spade.  Come the course of the season if that player changes positions - tough.   In the Philly.com league which is a yahoo league, is barely a challenge deciding who should play each day.  

 

In the ESPN league we do have the Utility position for a manager to choose to play a center or a talented Winger with 4 starts that week.   Either keep the player, trade'em or drop for a different player in free agency.  This league imo is set up so that there should always be quality players to add and drop.

 

So far after a month into the season the only things I think we may need to adjust for next year is to lessen the value of face offs from maybe 0.2 pts to 0.15.  But then I don't really mind it the way it is either as teams really don't need more than 4 centers on a roster.  Having 4 quality d-men on a roster isn't an easy achievement either so maybe we could drop it to 3 d-men next year and add another utiility player.

 

sounds good to me...lets discuss more after the season.

[J0e Th0rnton]

I wouldn't mind if ESPN did away with all of the dual eligibility. Yahoo gives it out dual positions like candy.  It takes away the challenge it used to having to drop a RW to get a LW or a Center.  Call a spade a spade.  Come the course of the season if that player changes positions - tough.   In the Philly.com league which is a yahoo league, is barely a challenge deciding who should play each day.  

 

In the ESPN league we do have the Utility position for a manager to choose to play a center or a talented Winger with 4 starts that week.   Either keep the player, trade'em or drop for a different player in free agency.  This league imo is set up so that there should always be quality players to add and drop.

 

So far after a month into the season the only things I think we may need to adjust for next year is to lessen the value of face offs from maybe 0.2 pts to 0.15.  But then I don't really mind it the way it is either as teams really don't need more than 4 centers on a roster.  Having 4 quality d-men on a roster isn't an easy achievement either so maybe we could drop it to 3 d-men next year and add another utiility player.

I concur, but the adjustment might be better another way.

 

I say make it so a faceoff win is 0.3 and a faceoff loss is -0.3. That way centers who are great on the faceoff dot get something for being good, but it is not as awesome a point producer. I'll admit I am using the current rules to maximum benefit, but I expected everyone to.

 

Honestly, I build my draft based on the rules of each league and look to maximize performance, and this faceoff win 0.2 was a bigger factor in doing my sheets than finding solid scorers.

 

But if we do that, I strongly suggest also reducing points for a goalie win a bit. Right now goalies and Centers are about equally important. Wingers and dmen tend to be a wee bit weaker in average scoring.

 

But a goalie with 30 saves, 1 goal against and a win gets you the same amount of points in a game as 2 goals, an assist and a few SOG for a forward.

 

If we reduce center production by reducing faceoffs and leave goalies as is, we might as well just expect the entire first 2 rounds of a draft to be goalies next year unless we tweak it somehow. Defensemen might need a slight boost as well because right now, they are the weakest link for the most part.

 

The upsized bolded I have a bit of an issue with because it nearly cripples the need for any sort of trading. Why trade when you can just add drop? But that is a thing with point leagues vs Roto leagues that will probably never go away because roto leagues force you to focus on each category instead of total points lol. If we had enough people, would a 14 team league be out of the question?

[Polaris922]

Dual eligibility is a crock of ****. Honestly a forward is a forward. Teams mix and match forwards all the time. If one player can be considered a winger and a center, they all can. They all get mixed and matched at some point in some combination. Why we act like it matters is beyond me.

[J0e Th0rnton]

Not the best way to start the week. Down 25 points to Aziz already. But as much as it bugged me to see, I had to look at it from the numbers point of view. He had 9 players, including a winning goalie who only allowed 1 goal last night. I only had 4 guys skating last night. Tonight I have 7 guys to his 4(assuming our goalies play), so hope I can make it back and then some

[hf101]

I concur, but the adjustment might be better another way.

 

I say make it so a faceoff win is 0.3 and a faceoff loss is -0.3. That way centers who are great on the faceoff dot get something for being good, but it is not as awesome a point producer. I'll admit I am using the current rules to maximum benefit, but I expected everyone to.  That is an option, but so many centers are around 50% that I don't think winning 15 face offs and losing 14 gives out the points the way we want here.  Especially since we do have a +1 /-1 for +/-.  

 

Honestly, I build my draft based on the rules of each league and look to maximize performance, and this faceoff win 0.2 was a bigger factor in doing my sheets than finding solid scorers.

Maybe changing the scoring for faceoff wins to 1.5 pts 0.15 points and give 4 pts for goals while keeping the assists at 2 pts evens out the scoring some.

 

But if we do that, I strongly suggest also reducing points for a goalie win a bit. Right now goalies and Centers are about equally important. Wingers and dmen tend to be a wee bit weaker in average scoring.

I tend to agree, but I think that is ok also.  A winger getting 2 goals, and an assist will easily get you 10 points 

 

But a goalie with 30 saves, 1 goal against and a win gets you the same amount of points in a game as 2 goals, an assist and a few SOG for a forward.  I do like this.

 

If we reduce center production by reducing faceoffs and leave goalies as is, we might as well just expect the entire first 2 rounds of a draft to be goalies next year unless we tweak it somehow. Defensemen might need a slight boost as well because right now, they are the weakest link for the most part.  Defensemen might be the weakest link, but picking 4 good ones can easily boost one team over another.

 

The upsized bolded I have a bit of an issue with because it nearly cripples the need for any sort of trading. Why trade when you can just add drop? But that is a thing with point leagues vs Roto leagues that will probably never go away because roto leagues force you to focus on each category instead of total points lol. If we had enough people, would a 14 team league be out of the question?

Good Point -  Both trades and add / drop are fun imo.  Trades sometimes take more time unfortunately and that often is the biggest deterent..  But I can see trades happening when a team has excess wingers or centers and can trade a d-man for one - for example.     14 teams are not out of the question.  Ideally I'd like to see us get to 3 groups of 12 each before we go to 2 groups of 14 each.    That way finishing in the top 3 gets you to the All Star League the following year, as well as finishing in the bottom 6 of the All Star League relegates your team to the Bantam leagues. 

 

One last point is I think we tried purposely to keep this league fairly standard so that we entise new members to fantasy hockey while at the same time leave enough uncertainity so that it isn't easy to win all the time.

 

Anyway, keeping all of our options open we'll definitely tweak the scoring if we need to to improve the league for next year.

[pilldoc]

@J0e Th0rnton

@hf101

 

Great ideas.  I think a tweaking of the scoring system can easily be accomplished.  I'm always open to ideas.  Also, do we want to bring back PIM's?  I know this year we specifically left it off, but we can always bring back next year.  Also last year CBS gave out premium points when a D-man scored or got an assist.  We tried to stear away from that this year.  We can try to adjust the goalie scoring, but realize, games are won and lost on goalie play.  Having a good goalie is a must.  Anyway just some food for thought.  I'm always up for suggestions on how to make the FHL even better.

[pilldoc]

More Food for thought ....(which can be discussed after the season) 

 

Here are the available scoring catgories for the ESPN FHL.  (I hope the formatting does not get screwed up when I post it) - and of course it did..will try  to fix.... I highlighted the categores in green with the associated  points assigned for our current league year.

 

Skating Categories Selected: 10

 

(3) G Goals

(2) A Assists

(1) +/- Plus/minus

PTS Points

PIM Penalty Minutes

PPG Power Play Goals

PPA Power Play Assists

SHG Short Handed Goals

SHA Short Handed Assists

GWG Game-Winning Goals

(0.2) FOW Faceoffs Won

FOL Faceoffs Lost

SHFT Shifts

(2) HAT Hat Tricks

(0.3) SOG Shots on goal

(0.3) HIT Hits

(0.3) BLK Blocked Shots

DEF Defensemen Points

(1) PPP Power Play Points

(2) SHP Short Handed Points

 

Goaltending Categories Selected: 4

 

GS Games Started

(5) W Wins

L Losses

SA Shots Against

(-1) GA Goals Against

EGA Empty Net Goals Against

(0.2) SV Saves

(3) SO Shutouts

OTL Overtime Losses

 

So as you can see, there are some categories we can add and we tweak the scoring abit.

[J0e Th0rnton]

@J0e Th0rnton

@hf101

 

Great ideas.  I think a tweaking of the scoring system can easily be accomplished.  I'm always open to ideas.  Also, do we want to bring back PIM's?  I know this year we specifically left it off, but we can always bring back next year.  Also last year CBS gave out premium points when a D-man scored or got an assist.  We tried to stear away from that this year.  We can try to adjust the goalie scoring, but realize, games are won and lost on goalie play.  Having a good goalie is a must.  Anyway just some food for thought.  I'm always up for suggestions on how to make the FHL even better.

 

We got a long while before next year, but I would love to be part of helping tweak the system in the offseason.

 

Overall, it would just be nice if drafting was equal. Rather than overpowering need to force people to draft goalies and Centers above all. It would be nice to be able to draft the best player available.

 

Mind you, I had a field day doing up spreadsheets and putting the work in to realize Tarasenko sucked in this format compared to many other players. But for a casual Fantasy person(Which is who we are targeting), I am sure it is annoying to see Tarasenko with 11 goals and 7 assists for a total of 81.2 points in 17 games while Carter has 7 goals, 10 assists and 108.2 points in the same amount of games.

 

Perfect is impossible in fantasy, but right now Hedman has a goal and 11 assists in 19 games(On pace for 51 points, which is outstanding for a Dman) and he absolutely blows compared to Tomas Hertl, who has 2 goals and 7 assists, on pace for 43 points.

 

Or if we have enough for 3 leagues, perhaps make the All Star league the one that is a bit more complex in scoring so if you do not do your homework and due diligence it is your own fault, and the Bantam and whatever we call the 3rd team a bit more standard easy for first timers?

 

Have playoff teams in All Star stay on for next year, and non-playoff teams lose their spots to the top 2 in the other leagues?

 

Just food for thought, but like I said, I would love to help figure things out for next year

[pilldoc]

@J0e Th0rnton

@hf101

 

 

 

I say make it so a faceoff win is 0.3 and a faceoff loss is -0.3. That way centers who are great on the faceoff dot get something for being good, but it is not as awesome a point producer. I'll admit I am using the current rules to maximum benefit, but I expected everyone to. That is an option, but so many centers are around 50% that I don't think winning 15 face offs and losing 14 gives out the points the way we want here. Especially since we do have a +1 /-1 for +/-.

Honestly, I build my draft based on the rules of each league and look to maximize performance, and this faceoff win 0.2 was a bigger factor in doing my sheets than finding solid scorers.

Maybe changing the scoring for faceoff wins to 1.5 pts and give 4 pts for goals while keeping the assists at 2 pts evens out the scoring some.

 

We can award a higher point value for good centers who win FO, but we have to be careful not to go too high as to make the other categories irrelevant.  For example, I built a quick spreadsheet using real data from last week, Joe had 167 FOW and I had 70 FOW.  Using the current scoring system, he eaerned 33.4 points to my 14. A difference of about 20 points which can be made up in other categories.

 

IF we went with the suggested 1.5 points / FOW then difference would be rather larger.  Same stats, Joe would have earned 250.5 pts to my 105.  For a difference of over 145 pts.  There is NO way in any category that I could have made up that type of point difference with other categories, unless we start give higher point values to d-men.(just as an example) --  (I think some of agreed CBS went over the top with that last year)

 

Yes, FOW are important, but we can't go so over the top that everyone will grab/draft players who are high in FOW.  Don't get me wrong here, I'm not picking on you Joe here because you have alot of players who are high in FOW. (that was your draft stragedy) Winning a hockey game is about scoring goals and preventing goals, and yes winning FO goes along way to hopefully having your team succeed. I just don't want to go so far overboard on the peripherals.  I'm just using a real time example from last week to help explain this.

[pilldoc]

We got a long while before next year, but I would love to be part of helping tweak the system in the offseason.

 

Overall, it would just be nice if drafting was equal. Rather than overpowering need to force people to draft goalies and Centers above all. It would be nice to be able to draft the best player available.

 

Mind you, I had a field day doing up spreadsheets and putting the work in to realize Tarasenko sucked in this format compared to many other players. But for a casual Fantasy person(Which is who we are targeting), I am sure it is annoying to see Tarasenko with 11 goals and 7 assists for a total of 81.2 points in 17 games while Carter has 7 goals, 10 assists and 108.2 points in the same amount of games.

 

Perfect is impossible in fantasy, but right now Hedman has a goal and 11 assists in 19 games(On pace for 51 points, which is outstanding for a Dman) and he absolutely blows compared to Tomas Hertl, who has 2 goals and 7 assists, on pace for 43 points.

 

Or if we have enough for 3 leagues, perhaps make the All Star league the one that is a bit more complex in scoring so if you do not do your homework and due diligence it is your own fault, and the Bantam and whatever we call the 3rd team a bit more standard easy for first timers?

 

Have playoff teams in All Star stay on for next year, and non-playoff teams lose their spots to the top 2 in the other leagues?

 

Just food for thought, but like I said, I would love to help figure things out for next year

 

I agree way too early to start tweaking and talking until at least the season is over, BUT, I think you would make a great addition to the team in helping to up next years FHL.

[J0e Th0rnton]

@J0e Th0rnton

@hf101

 

 

 

 

We can award a higher point value for good centers who win FO, but we have to be careful not to go too high as to make the other categories irrelevant.  For example, I built a quick spreadsheet using real data from last week, Joe had 167 FOW and I had 70 FOW.  Using the current scoring system, he eaerned 33.4 points to my 14. A difference of about 20 points which can be made up in other categories.

 

IF we went with the suggested 1.5 points / FOW then difference would be rather larger.  Same stats, Joe would have earned 250.5 pts to my 105.  For a difference of over 145 pts.  There is NO way in any category that I could have made up that type of point difference with other categories, unless we start give higher point values to d-men.(just as an example) --  (I think some of agreed CBS went over the top with that last year)

 

Yes, FOW are important, but we can't go so over the top that everyone will grab/draft players who are high in FOW.  Don't get me wrong here, I'm not picking on you Joe here because you have alot of players who are high in FOW. (that was your draft stragedy) Winning a hockey game is about scoring goals and preventing goals, and yes winning FO goes along way to hopefully having your team succeed. I just don't want to go so far overboard on the peripherals.  I'm just using a real time example from last week to help explain this.

I think he meant 0.15 points

[J0e Th0rnton]

I agree way too early to start tweaking and talking until at least the season is over, BUT, I think you would make a great addition to the team in helping to up next years FHL.

Do you like the idea of the All star league being a bit more advanced in rules, while keeping the Bantam and 3rd league more beginners rules?

 

It just makes sense to me lol. Appeals to both seasoned fantasy vets and newcomers.

[pilldoc]

I think he meant 0.15 points

 

That makes a bit more sense.  Even raising the points from 0.2 to 0.3 / FOW would result with the following:

 

Joe: 167 FOW x 0.3 = 50.1

pilldoc: 70 FOW x 0.3 = 21

 

Still a managable difference to make up in other categories, BUT you get the benefit of haveing players who are high in FOW

 

At 0.35 pts/FOW

 

Joe: 58.45 pts

doc: 24.5 pts

 

At 0.4 pts/FOW

 

joe:  66.8

doc: 28 pts

 

points can still be made up in other categories.  your margin of victory then increase from 2 (0.2) to 10 (0.3) to 13 (0.35)  to 18 (0.4)

 

that would be an easy tweak.....again just some thoughts to ponder.

[hf101]

Even raising the points from 0.2 to 0.3 / FOW would result with the following:



Joe: 167 FOW x 0.3 = 50.1

pilldoc: 70 FOW x 0.3 = 21

 

yeah, I wrote 1.5pts in error.  It should have been 0.15 points.

 

Thus in your example

167 FOW = 25.05 points

 

and 70 FOW = 10.5 points 

 

Thus that 15 points could be made up fairly easily, but yet still having the best FO centers provide an advantage in the draft and that is ok.

[pilldoc]

@hf101

 

No worries.

[hf101]

Or if we have enough for 3 leagues, perhaps make the All Star league the one that is a bit more complex in scoring so if you do not do your homework and due diligence it is your own fault, and the Bantam and whatever we call the 3rd team a bit more standard easy for first timers?

 

I dunno,  ideally I'd prefer to keep the scoring the same for each league.  I do think it will be tough to stay in the All Star League on a yearly basis just because each year the top winners from the Bantam leagues are moved into it.  Look at how close the standings are now one month into the season.  We have 2 teams that are 5 and 1 and 5 teams that are 4 and 2.    All ready that is 7 teams in the hunt for the top 6 spots.  I think that is where we want to be.     Doc has access to the other league's page and I expect the top teams are averaging the same points per week we are. I think each year that we play it will get tougher and tougher to win just between the managers themselves.

[JR Ewing]

It's always good to attempt to make settings so that it doesn't boil down to one component being much more important than any other, and that's happened here. I think it's important to point that out. The good managers always have a leg up, no matter the settings, the managers who maybe aren't as skilled face their own shortcomings, and neither can be massaged away via league scoring. Just about the only way to handicap the league is to place the top finishers near the bottom of next season's draft without a snake format, but even then, my gut tells me that the folks who know what they're doing move up, at least a bit.

[J0e Th0rnton]

I dunno,  ideally I'd prefer to keep the scoring the same for each league.  I do think it will be tough to stay in the All Star League on a yearly basis just because each year the top winners from the Bantam leagues are moved into it.  Look at how close the standings are now one month into the season.  We have 2 teams that are 5 and 1 and 5 teams that are 4 and 2.    All ready that is 7 teams in the hunt for the top 6 spots.  I think that is where we want to be.     Doc has access to the other league's page and I expect the top teams are averaging the same points per week we are. I think each year that we play it will get tougher and tougher to win just between the managers themselves.

I figured with 3 leagues, if we had them, we could say "Everyone in all star league who makes the playoffs stays". That demotes 4 teams instead of 6 from all stars and allows the top 2 from the other two leagues(Which I assume are equal) to make the jump. By top 2, I mean both teams who make the finals of the playoff bracket.

 

But it is all speculation. I just figure it adds a bit of prestige to the annual all star league that we are making tradition lol. Assuming we have a good amount of regular members, which we seem to.

 

Demoting 6 I assume uses regular season scoring? How does it work if the top scoring teams somehow get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs?

 

Last year being an aberration, Polaris and I were #3 and #4 in total points, but missed the playoffs and were disqualified from All star this year(We only got in this year due to dropouts and replying first). The CBS averaging system really threw us for a loop

[hf101]

I figured with 3 leagues, if we had them, we could say "Everyone in all star league who makes the playoffs stays". That demotes 4 teams instead of 6 from all stars and allows the top 2 from the other two leagues(Which I assume are equal) to make the jump. By top 2, I mean both teams who make the finals of the playoff bracket.

 

When the top 3 move in from each league as the 3rd place winner won the last match also so there is some merit there.   Having to win a match in the playoffs becomes important also to stay in the all star league.

 

If we continue to grow this and have 3 bantam leagues then the format doesn't change much as the top 6 stay and 2 from each Bantam league would then move up. 

 

That means we could eventually have 48 people playing in the HF.net leagues with a potential to move to 56 if we went to 14 teams in each.

[pilldoc]

Doc has access to the other league's page and I expect the top teams are averaging the same points per week we are. I think each year that we play it will get tougher and tougher to win just between the managers themselves.

 

Ask and you shall recieve!

 

Seriouolsy over in the Bantam League we have:

 

1 team at 6-0

1 team at 5-1

1 team at 4-2

5 team at 3-3

 

Also the top team averages for the All Star League are slightly higher than that of the Bantam...but not by much....

 

                                                Total         Ave.

(4-2) Putting on the Foil                    993.7    165.6

(5-1) Halifax Sharknado                    981.8    163.6

(5-1) Ewing Oilers                             981.4    163.6

(3-3) Reedy Creek Buccaneers        929.0    154.8

(4-2) Ded Flatbird                             924.4    154.1

(4-2) NYC Bakanekimiwa                  891.7    148.6

(5-1) Isaac Ansimov                          888.8    148.1

(4-2) Slick Sticks                               865.8    144.3

(6-0) Bambi On Ice                            859.0    143.2

(3-3) Team Ortiz-Meoz                       834.2    139.0

(4-2) LEAFS NATION eh!                  829.2    138.2

(3-3) Dupster Fire                             821.3    136.9

(3-3) Team Gordon                           800.8    133.5

(2-4) Team Wallin                              792.5    132.1

(1-5) Team Aziz                                 764.8    127.5

(2-4) Team Head Amputators            756.2    126.0

(4-2) Inside Edge Hockey News        755.3    125.9

(1-5) AvsFor LIFE                             747.1    124.5

(2-4) Your Wife's a Dyke                  715.0    119.2

(3-3) GreenStar Blades                    713.0    118.8

(1-5) Polaris Puckers                        706.8    117.8

(2-4) Team Dunlop                           684.8    114.1

(0-6) The Whiskey Sticks                 631.5    105.3

(1-5) Team Baker                             574.1      95.7

[J0e Th0rnton]

 

Ask and you shall recieve!

 

Seriouolsy over in the Bantam League we have:

 

1 team at 6-0

1 team at 5-1

1 team at 4-2

5 team at 3-3

 

Also the top team averages for the All Star League are slightly higher than that of the Bantam...but not by much....

 

  Total Ave. Putting on the Foil 993.7 165.6 Halifax Sharknado 981.8 163.6 Ewing Oilers 981.4 163.6 Reedy Creek Buccaneers 929.0 154.8 Ded Flatbird 924.4 154.1 NYC Bakanekimiwa 891.7 148.6 Isaac Ansimov 888.8 148.1 Slick Sticks 865.8 144.3 Bambi On Ice 859.0 143.2 Team Ortiz-Meoz 834.2 139.0 LEAFS NATION eh! 829.2 138.2 Dupster Fire 821.3 136.9 Team Gordon 800.8 133.5 Team Wallin 792.5 132.1 Team Aziz 764.8 127.5 Team Head Amputators 756.2 126.0 Inside Edge Hockey News 755.3 125.9 AvsFor LIFE 747.1 124.5 Your Wife's a Dyke 715.0 119.2 GreenStar Blades 713.0 118.8 Polaris Puckers 706.8 117.8 Team Dunlop 684.8 114.1 The Whiskey Sticks 631.5 105.3 Team Baker 574.1 95.7

 

Which two are Scott and TFG? lol

Last year I consulted with you the most because we were in different leagues. This year I chat most with them

[J0e Th0rnton]

I need a big Friday/Saturday/Sunday to make up this 25 point deficit Aziz has me in.

I have 5 guys tonight to his 2.

Saturday he has 11 to my 9(Unless Bobby Ryan is out, then it is 10-9)

Sunday I have 7 guys to his 4.

 

Only thing that is keeping me in the race is the usual peripherals. Last night my 8 Skaters had 0 goals and 0 assists, but I still managed 23.8 points.

[radoran]

So, my goaltending finally got going a bit this week (1.68, 116 SVs, .943, 1 SHO) and my offense has dried up - of course... (8g 7a, 5 ppp)

 

I might be able to make money by getting teams to pay me not to have their players on my roster.

[AJgoal]

You and me both. It's getting laughable. Both my teams are just straight up garbage this year.