B21 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 For those thinking Crosby was "dogging it" for a season and a half because he didn't like Johnston's system (which ironically...conveniently?...plays into the whole spoiled superstar myth perpetuated by the haters) please explain his play (career year, best post season) under Michel Therien - a coach who he was alleged to have equally despised for his personality and defense-first mentality. Waiting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 23 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: @notfondajane Help B21 understand this.... B21 gets it. B21 also knows when he smells bullshite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 @notfondjane "Ofc, its the coaches job to use crosby effectively. BUT Crosby seems to not give 100 percent when he isnt fond of the system" .... Thats a criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, B21 said: For those thinking Crosby was "dogging it" for a season and a half because he didn't like Johnston's system (which ironically...conveniently?...plays into the whole spoiled superstar myth perpetuated by the haters) please explain his play (career year, best post season) under Michel Therien - a coach who he was alleged to have equally despised for his personality and defense-first mentality. Waiting... Regis promised a massage after every win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 @B21 There is a term used there that is critical to understanding this...."alleged" Also, what does it say when your fellow Pittsburgh fan also concurs with my sentiment? And many other pittsburgh fans express the same opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 19 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: @B21 There is a term used there that is critical to understanding this...."alleged" Also, what does it say when your fellow Pittsburgh fan also concurs with my sentiment? And many other pittsburgh fans express the same opinion... Move never heard anyone that watches the Pens and has a clue about hockey say that. The head coach wanted him behind our net defensively every play in our end. You had a junior coach using a junior system similar to the left wing lock. That alone will cut Crosby's creativity. The he one and only reason for Crosby's resurgence is coaching change. Anyone doubting effort simply did not watch the man or listen to his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Polaris922 said: The he one and only reason for Crosby's resurgence is coaching change. Anyone doubting effort simply did not watch the man or listen to his teammates. So you are saying it is not possible that the Pens as a whole where frustrated with their Coach and still always gave 100%.....Sorry, I am going to disagree there. This has happened to many coaches over the years, for examples see Keenan/Tortorella/Barber/Hitchcock/Berube and pretty sure you can add Johnston's name too. Players tune them out and whether they intend to or not, they let up on their collective play. Fatalism, lack of faith in the coaches plan, whichever, the result is they take their foot off the gas. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Polaris922 said: Move never heard anyone that watches the Pens and has a clue about hockey say that. The head coach wanted him behind our net defensively every play in our end. You had a junior coach using a junior system similar to the left wing lock. That alone will cut Crosby's creativity. The he one and only reason for Crosby's resurgence is coaching change. Anyone doubting effort simply did not watch the man or listen to his teammates. Valid points made, but I have heard "the coach" justification for Crosby's inadequate play countless times. People were saying something similar during Crosby's slump last year. And I honestly don't believe it is ONLY because of the ineffective coaching. Anyways, his most productive days are certainly behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 5 hours ago, JagerMeister said: @B21 There is a term used there that is critical to understanding this...."alleged" Also, what does it say when your fellow Pittsburgh fan also concurs with my sentiment? And many other pittsburgh fans express the same opinion... If you think Jane Fonda is a "legitmate" Pens fan you need to rethink things. He has two responses to everything: "Fleury sucks..." and "It's Fleury's fault....". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, JagerMeister said: Valid points made, but I have heard "the coach" justification for Crosby's inadequate play countless times. People were saying something similar during Crosby's slump last year. And I honestly don't believe it is ONLY because of the ineffective coaching. Anyways, his most productive days are certainly behind him. Most of the media covering the Pens here locally all mentioned misuse and a possible injury that the Pens were not disclosing (which has happened before). Many went out of their way to praise his effort in other facets of the game in spite of the slump. Feel free to take the word of a Flyers fan who likely has watched minimal Pens games this year (if any) as "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, B21 said: Most of the media covering the Pens here locally all mentioned misuse and a possible injury that the Pens were not disclosing (which has happened before). Many went out of their way to praise his effort in other facets of the game in spite of the slump. Feel free to take the word of a Flyers fan who likely has watched minimal Pens games this year (if any) as "evidence". The thing is, I have heard Pittsburgh fans say this as well. Let me ask you this. Besides natural decline, do you think its SOLELY the coaching change that prevented Crosby from producing at a reasonable rate? Because I have heard Pittsburgh fans say he WAS not giving 100 percent on many occasions during Mike Johnston's stint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 i thought there was something wrong with him physically. He was "off" in the games i watched. Late pulling the trigger on one-timers on the PP, struggling to receive passes in stride and sometimes when he was stationary, i remember whispers of a wrist injury and the play i saw supported that rumor. The way Johnston had them playing didn't put him in the offensive situations with much regularity ,so when he was there and didn't finish or play well it seemed more pronounced. I also think losing Scuderi and gaining Daley increases transition chances, i don't know where ben lovejoy has been but he's probably not missed very much either. i have never questioned 87's work ethic, and doubt highly that he wasn't putting out his best effort. I think he was I think there was something physically wrong with him. i have questioned his leadership abilities and maturity as well as his physiological brain health. He works on some part of his game every off season. he is nothing if not a hard working player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 11 hours ago, JagerMeister said: The thing is, I have heard Pittsburgh fans say this as well. Let me ask you this. Besides natural decline, do you think its SOLELY the coaching change that prevented Crosby from producing at a reasonable rate? Because I have heard Pittsburgh fans say he WAS not giving 100 percent on many occasions during Mike Johnston's stint. Sorry but between the media (mostly local but some national) and talk radio here it Pittsburgh I haven't heard a single person question his effort. There has been criticism naturally but nothing alluding to effort. Most if not all of the criticism was directed at Johnston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 10 hours ago, mojo1917 said: i thought there was something wrong with him physically. He was "off" in the games i watched. Late pulling the trigger on one-timers on the PP, struggling to receive passes in stride and sometimes when he was stationary, i remember whispers of a wrist injury and the play i saw supported that rumor. The way Johnston had them playing didn't put him in the offensive situations with much regularity ,so when he was there and didn't finish or play well it seemed more pronounced. I also think losing Scuderi and gaining Daley increases transition chances, i don't know where ben lovejoy has been but he's probably not missed very much either. i have never questioned 87's work ethic, and doubt highly that he wasn't putting out his best effort. I think he was I think there was something physically wrong with him. i have questioned his leadership abilities and maturity as well as his physiological brain health. He works on some part of his game every off season. he is nothing if not a hard working player This! Fair criticisms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 On 2/12/2016 at 5:50 AM, B21 said: This! Fair criticisms! I concede your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 On 2/11/2016 at 2:00 PM, JagerMeister said: @notfondajane first half? your reply basically agrees with the whole comment.. If he doesn't like the system Johnston was using, Crosby still should have given 100%! The 2nd half of your implied that he didn't and he should have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 9 minutes ago, notfondajane said: If he doesn't like the system Johnston was using, Crosby still should have given 100%! The 2nd half of your implied that he didn't and he should have! That's exactly what I was saying...so what do we disagree on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 On 2/12/2016 at 8:42 PM, B21 said: If you think Jane Fonda is a "legitmate" Pens fan you need to rethink things. He has two responses to everything: "Fleury sucks..." and "It's Fleury's fault....". Fleury inconsistent play is my biggest beef! Yes a player has a bad game now and then. It seem it's happens to often. I,also, would agree he has won a few games this year. His playoff performance the last few years, leaves me wondering if he wants to win another cup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 On 2/11/2016 at 3:34 PM, Polaris922 said: Move never heard anyone that watches the Pens and has a clue about hockey say that. The head coach wanted him behind our net defensively every play in our end. You had a junior coach using a junior system similar to the left wing lock. That alone will cut Crosby's creativity. The he one and only reason for Crosby's resurgence is coaching change. Anyone doubting effort simply did not watch the man or listen to his teammates. I would agree his system didn't work here. I sometime thought the team didn't give 100%. I wonder if they were second guessing the system? Johnston is gone and Sullivan is in? It appears that the Pens are playing better! I think the better play maybe a little to late! They will miss the post season by a point or two! Should they make the playoffs, they'll lose in 6 games! I am hoping to be wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 On 2/12/2016 at 8:42 PM, B21 said: If you think Jane Fonda is a "legitmate" Pens fan you need to rethink things. He has two responses to everything: "Fleury sucks..." and "It's Fleury's fault....". Jane Fonda is not a penguin fan! In fact I am not sure if she likes the game of hockey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 @flyercanuck As a guest who watches practically every game I can assure you it wasn't effort. Johnston's system had a price. Johnston expected Crosby to play defense, and if the stats summaries are correct, his defensive stats exceeded Toews' stats under Johnston, but his offense suffered. He was very comparable to Toews during that time. In comes Sullivan and the uptempo game starts. Crosby has climbed from 40+ to 5th in scoring. His defensive stats have declined. System matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagerMeister Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Polaris922 said: @flyercanuck As a guest who watches practically every game I can assure you it wasn't effort. Johnston's system had a price. Johnston expected Crosby to play defense, and if the stats summaries are correct, his defensive stats exceeded Toews' stats under Johnston, but his offense suffered. He was very comparable to Toews during that time. In comes Sullivan and the uptempo game starts. Crosby has climbed from 40+ to 5th in scoring. His defensive stats have declined. System matters. Toews would be an Art Ross winner if only he prioritized more on offense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B21 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 40 minutes ago, JagerMeister said: Toews would be an Art Ross winner if only he prioritized more on offense... Yeah but then he'd never be up for another Selke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nossagog Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 Bumped to the top: Crosby with Johnston and the DFB dump and chase style of hockey GP Goals Assists Points PPG 28 6 13 19 .68Crosby with Sullivan and up tempo high pressure style of hockey GP Goals Assists Points PPG 42 25 30 55 1.31 Quite the turnaround Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris922 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 On 3/19/2016 at 7:19 PM, nossagog said: Bumped to the top: Crosby with Johnston and the DFB dump and chase style of hockey GP Goals Assists Points PPG 28 6 13 19 .68Crosby with Sullivan and up tempo high pressure style of hockey GP Goals Assists Points PPG 42 25 30 55 1.31 Quite the turnaround From 79th to 3rd in scoring, and suddenly the team looks to be real contenders... taking down the Isles, Rags, Canes, Caps and Flyers all in the past week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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