Hextall's Legacy as GM

[brelic]

5 minutes ago, icehole said:

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said I "cant see the clear and exciting improvememt".  What is more exciting about this team, the 2016 flyers, not the phantoms, not the 20 junior teams that the flyers have some stake in, but the 2016 flyers compared to most of Holmgren's flyers teams?  I'm not saying Hextall hasn't used his brain to make smart moves, but I'm bored right now!  Yes, I'm impatient.  Yes, I expect to have a team that competes year after year.

 

 

Well then, quite simply, this team under Hextall might not be for you. There's nothing you or I or anyone can do about it. So you either have to accept it, or move on. I tuned out quite a bit under Holmgren, because for me, that was a man taking the team nowhere. There's so much more to life than to hope for change over which you have no control.  So do what makes you happy.

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If they got Kane, which was not Holmgren's fault, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

 

Something tells me that Kane would never have lasted under the Snider/Holmgren regime. He's a selfish, entitled party boy and that has never played well with Mr. Snider. 

 

 

[icehole]

12 minutes ago, brelic said:

 

Well then, quite simply, this team under Hextall might not be for you. There's nothing you or I or anyone can do about it. So you either have to accept it, or move on. I tuned out quite a bit under Holmgren, because for me, that was a man taking the team nowhere. There's so much more to life than to hope for change over which you have no control.  So do what makes you happy.

 

Something tells me that Kane would never have lasted under the Snider/Holmgren regime. He's a selfish, entitled party boy and that has never played well with Mr. Snider. 

 

 

I guess it's not for me and that's why I'm so angry.  Hockey used to be a huge part of my life, but now I don't put much of my time into it.  I dont know, Dale Weiss just doesn't get me excited for what could come this season.  The possibility of having one or two young guys make the team would be more incentive for me to watch, but they can't be expected to make an immediate impact either.

Just out of curiosity, what moves did Holmgren make that made you tune out?  VLC may have been a reach.  I was in for that but that's only because I thought Vinny had something left in the tank...he didnt.  The team wasn't going anywhere?  They went just as far as many great teams go every year.  There's only one cup winner each year.  The rest have failed in some way.  To go to a final, a conference final, 2 2nd rounds, and 2 first round exits doesn't mean the team wasn't going anywhere.  The end was getting stale and he probably deserved to be let go, but that doesn't mean he didn't do a good job.

[brelic]

2 minutes ago, icehole said:

I guess it's not for me and that's why I'm so angry.  Hockey used to be a huge part of my life, but now I don't put much of my time into it.  I dont know, Dale Weiss just doesn't get me excited for what could come this season.  The possibility of having one or two young guys make the team would be more incentive for me to watch, but they can't be expected to make an immediate impact either.

 

 

Yeah, I get that. If you need to take a Flyers break, there's nothing wrong with that. Your life will probably be better for it! I feel that way about hockey in general - it seems to be going in a direction that doesn't really resonate with me, so I'm watching less and less each year. 

 

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Just out of curiosity, what moves did Holmgren make that made you tune out?  VLC may have been a reach.  I was in for that but that's only because I thought Vinny had something left in the tank...he didnt.  The team wasn't going anywhere?  They went just as far as many great teams go every year.  There's only one cup winner each year.  The rest have failed in some way.  To go to a final, a conference final, 2 2nd rounds, and 2 first round exits doesn't mean the team wasn't going anywhere.  The end was getting stale and he probably deserved to be let go, but that doesn't mean he didn't do a good job.

 

Hmm, good question. I don't think it was any single move, but more the overall tone of his tenure. I just felt like the current team wasn't going anywhere and they were boring to watch, and there was nothing in the pipeline. So it seemed pointless to watch. If something is not adding value to my life, I cut it out. I watch about an hour of TV per month. No word of a lie. I suspect I'll watch a few more games this year if Provorov and Konecny make it.

 

 

 

[radoran]

What wasn't there to like in Holmgren's moves?

 

Acquiring Steve Eminger (and a 3rd) for the first rounder that became John Carlson?

Getting Carcillo for Upshall?

Matt Walker for Simon Gagne?

Versteeg for a 1st and 3rd?

Bryzgalov for Clackson and 2 thirds?
Grossman(n) for a 2nd and 3rd?

Kubina for a player, 2nd and 4th?

Schenn for JVR?

Andrew MacDonald for a 2nd and 3rd?

 

And let's just say that the Pronger, Richards and Crater deals aren't exactly "slam dunks".

Three firsts (Sbisa and 2 1sts) plus Lupul for Pronger? A good deal if they win, which they didn't.*

 

LA got two Cups and still has a 25/60 guy on their roster. Meanwhile the Flyers are still putting up with Sean Couturier. (*ahem*).

 

As for Richards, it was Paul Holmgren who anointed Richards as "the next Bobby Clarke," rushed him into the captaincy and then signed him to a 12-year-deal before blowing up the team three years later. I quite like Schenn and Simmonds (I have Simmer's jersey), but Richards now has his name on as many Cups as Bobby Clarke does.

 

And let's also recall that the braintrust who dealt Richards and Crater one season removed from a Cup Final did so with the intention of signing Ilya Bryzgalov.

 

In this respect the credit he gets for acquiring Timonen/Hartnell, turning Freddy Meyer into Braydon Coburn and... well... whatever else he did do right sort of starts to pale in comparison.

 

YMMV.

 

 

* no, really. they didn't win. It's true.

[murraycraven]

39 minutes ago, radoran said:

Acquiring Steve Eminger (and a 3rd) for the first rounder that became John Carlson?

Getting Carcillo for Upshall?

Matt Walker for Simon Gagne?

Versteeg for a 1st and 3rd?

Bryzgalov for Clackson and 2 thirds?
Grossman(n) for a 2nd and 3rd?

Kubina for a player, 2nd and 4th?

Schenn for JVR?

Andrew MacDonald for a 2nd and 3rd?

 

i just puked...

 

 

[icehole]

1 hour ago, radoran said:

What wasn't there to like in Holmgren's moves?

 

Acquiring Steve Eminger (and a 3rd) for the first rounder that became John Carlson?

Getting Carcillo for Upshall?

Matt Walker for Simon Gagne?

Versteeg for a 1st and 3rd?

Bryzgalov for Clackson and 2 thirds?
Grossman(n) for a 2nd and 3rd?

Kubina for a player, 2nd and 4th?

Schenn for JVR?

Andrew MacDonald for a 2nd and 3rd?

 

And let's just say that the Pronger, Richards and Crater deals aren't exactly "slam dunks".

Three firsts (Sbisa and 2 1sts) plus Lupul for Pronger? A good deal if they win, which they didn't.*

 

LA got two Cups and still has a 25/60 guy on their roster. Meanwhile the Flyers are still putting up with Sean Couturier. (*ahem*).

 

As for Richards, it was Paul Holmgren who anointed Richards as "the next Bobby Clarke," rushed him into the captaincy and then signed him to a 12-year-deal before blowing up the team three years later. I quite like Schenn and Simmonds (I have Simmer's jersey), but Richards now has his name on as many Cups as Bobby Clarke does.

 

And let's also recall that the braintrust who dealt Richards and Crater one season removed from a Cup Final did so with the intention of signing Ilya Bryzgalov.

 

In this respect the credit he gets for acquiring Timonen/Hartnell, turning Freddy Meyer into Braydon Coburn and... well... whatever else he did do right sort of starts to pale in comparison.

 

YMMV.

 

 

* no, really. they didn't win. It's true.

Some of those are bad...no doubt.  Some aren't as bad as they appear.  I don't know what emminger was supposed to be, but I thought he was supposed to be a decent young player.  So to give up the 27th pick isn't a huge deal.  Carlson just over achieved which made it look worse.

I don't feel like looking up the numbers but how do carcillo and upshall compare?  On the surface, it looked like Carrcillo was a goon and upshall was some sort of skill player.  I think carcillo had more skill than he got credit for and upshall isn't going into the HOF.  Not a big deal.

Walker turned out to be nothing but Gagne was done anyway.

Versteeg was disappointing and that's too much for him.

We talked about Bryz.  He was a disaster but was that to much to give up for him, given the situation?

Grossmann didn't do anything but 2nd and 3rd rounders don't bother me.

Kubina...whatever...not a game changer.

They should have gotten more for JVR but I wanted JVR out more than anyone so I didn't care.

There's a good chance Hextall had a hand in the MacDonald deal.  He was Homer's right hand man at that time.  I'm sure that didn't get by him without his say.

I wasnt a fan of the Richards and Carter deals at the time.  I hate long deals for anyone.  He did unload those contracts though.  Sure they got a cup.  Carter contributed and Richard was a 4th liner.  The kings also had some other guys that got them a cup.  So even though it worked out for the kings, I believe the flyers made out by getting schenn and Simmonds while unloading those big contracts.

In hextall's  two seasons, he's had some bloopers so far.  Give him 8 seasons and see if they pile up or not.

You're a "cup or failure" guy so I won't convince you that you can have success without a cup.

[flyercanuck]

7 hours ago, icehole said:

The last part of this is great.  "He swung and missed".  Yes!  That's a great analogy.  I'd much rather have a guy swing than try to get a walk every time to the plate.

 

What about having a guy who doesn't know the rules to the game he's playing?

7 hours ago, icehole said:

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said I "cant see the clear and exciting improvememt".  What is more exciting about this team, the 2016 flyers, not the phantoms, not the 20 junior teams that the flyers have some stake in, but the 2016 flyers compared to most of Holmgren's flyers teams?  I'm not saying Hextall hasn't used his brain to make smart moves, but I'm bored right now!  Yes, I'm impatient.  Yes, I expect to have a team that competes year after year.

Nobody commented on my alternate universe where the flyers get Kane instead of JVR.  I think that's probably because it makes sense and Holmgren may not be hated for doing some things he had to do.  People don't want to be in that universe.  People want to believe Holmgren is the devil and Hextall is God.

Holmgren took a last place team to the cup, was forced to find the missing piece to win the cup (Bryz was the "hottest" name on the market that was ready to make an impact), that failed, he dealt some big contracts to get "prospects" back in the system including voracek, simmonds, schenn, and ghost, then he got canned.

If they got Kane, which was not Holmgren's fault, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

 

Nobodys commenting on Philly getting Kane cause it didn't happen. I mean what if Holmgren didn't throw our 2008 1st rounder in the dumpster on Steve Freaking Eminger and we had John Carlson on defence now? That's something that actually happened.

 

Yet again, NOBODY on here is calling Hextall God.  Some of us like what he's doing. He's building a team WITH AN ACTUAL PLAN. Good lord, what a terrible thing to do.

 

 

[radoran]

18 minutes ago, icehole said:

You're a "cup or failure" guy so I won't convince you that you can have success without a cup.

 

You know who was  a "Cup or failure" guy?

 

Paul Holmgren.

 

Holmgren didn't "take" a last place team to the Cup Final. The players squeaked into the playoffs on the last day of the season and went on a run. And, just like Edmonton with Pronger before them, came up short.

 

As for what I want to see to be entertained?  I just bought an 11-game package to watch this team live and the ONLY reason I still have cable is to watch the Flyers. And I do NOT expect them to win a Cup this year. Yes, I can be entertained without winning.

 

So take your high and mighty nonsense declarations about what kind of fan people are elsewhere.

 

Because apparently you can't be entertained without winning. Check your mirror.

[flyercanuck]

33 minutes ago, icehole said:

Some of those are bad...no doubt.  Some aren't as bad as they appear.  I don't know what emminger was supposed to be, but I thought he was supposed to be a decent young player.  So to give up the 27th pick isn't a huge deal.  Carlson just over achieved which made it look worse.

Eminger is a bust. Carlson is a very good defenceman.  Ya...no big deal.  

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I don't feel like looking up the numbers but how do carcillo and upshall compare?  On the surface, it looked like Carrcillo was a goon and upshall was some sort of skill player.  I think carcillo had more skill than he got credit for and upshall isn't going into the HOF.  Not a big deal.

Again, you're fine with getting the lesser player in the deal?

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Walker turned out to be nothing but Gagne was done anyway.

Versteeg was disappointing and that's too much for him.

We talked about Bryz.  He was a disaster but was that to much to give up for him, given the situation?

The picks? No. The contract? That was insane,

 

Insane.

 

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Grossmann didn't do anything but 2nd and 3rd rounders don't bother me.

No wonder you like Homer. Who cares about those pesky useless 2nds and 3rds. We got Ghost with a 3rd. Subban was taken with a 2nd. Josi a 2nd. Weber a 2nd. Letang a 3rd. Keith. Bergeron. Krecji. Backes. Quick. Simmonds. Stepan. Lucic. Hamonic. Marchand. Stone. Vlasic. Stastny.  Henrique. O'Reilly. Faulk. Saad. Jenner. Kucherov. All 2nds and 3rds. 

 

Who needs em? Throw em in for the Kubinas and Grossmans...those guys win you cups.

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Kubina...whatever...not a game changer.

They should have gotten more for JVR but I wanted JVR out more than anyone so I didn't care.

I had no problem trading JVR either. The return on the other hand...

 

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There's a good chance Hextall had a hand in the MacDonald deal.  He was Homer's right hand man at that time.  I'm sure that didn't get by him without his say.

It's possible Hextall wanted MCDonald. That contract has Homer written all over it though. 

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I wasnt a fan of the Richards and Carter deals at the time.  I hate long deals for anyone.  He did unload those contracts though.  Sure they got a cup.  Carter contributed and Richard was a 4th liner.

 

Richards, the 4th liner who was the Kings 4th leading scorer in the regular season and playoffs for their first cup win? That's a heck of a 4th liner.

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 The kings also had some other guys that got them a cup.  So even though it worked out for the kings, I believe the flyers made out by getting schenn and Simmonds while unloading those big contracts.

Thank God Homer was able to get himself out of TWO of the contracts he signed a bunch of guys too hey?

 

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In hextall's  two seasons, he's had some bloopers so far.  Give him 8 seasons and see if they pile up or not.

You're a "cup or failure" guy so I won't convince you that you can have success without a cup.

Losing cups isn't cutting it anymore for me either.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, radoran said:

Acquiring Steve Eminger (and a 3rd) for the first rounder that became John Carlson?

Getting Carcillo for Upshall?

Matt Walker for Simon Gagne?

Versteeg for a 1st and 3rd?

Bryzgalov for Clackson and 2 thirds?
Grossman(n) for a 2nd and 3rd?

Kubina for a player, 2nd and 4th?

Schenn for JVR?

Andrew MacDonald for a 2nd and 3rd?

 

 

A good list no arguments here.......but you're getting rusty....how are you not going to mention trading Bob??

 

After going 28-11-8 915% in his rookie year and one year of backing up Bryz.

 

 

I guess because they got more for Bob? Picks that turned into Stolarz, Leier and another 4th that was traded? 

[OccamsRazor]

Speaking of the cosmonaut......taking shots at the Flyers??? No he didn't!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[icehole]

33 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

You know who was  a "Cup or failure" guy?

 

Paul Holmgren.

 

Holmgren didn't "take" a last place team to the Cup Final. The players squeaked into the playoffs on the last day of the season and went on a run. And, just like Edmonton with Pronger before them, came up short.

 

As for what I want to see to be entertained?  I just bought an 11-game package to watch this team live and the ONLY reason I still have cable is to watch the Flyers. And I do NOT expect them to win a Cup this year. Yes, I can be entertained without winning.

 

So take your high and mighty nonsense declarations about what kind of fan people are elsewhere.

 

Because apparently you can't be entertained without winning. Check your mirror.

I can be entertained without a cup.  I'm 35 and a huge fan so obviously I haven't seen a cup.  You wrote in a previous post with a "*" "no, really. they didn't win. It's true".  like you consider it a failure because they didn't win the cup.  I've gotten a lot of feedback from people that say Homer failed because he didn't win a cup.  Sorry, I thought you were one of those people.  

[ruxpin]

1 hour ago, icehole said:

Some of those are bad...no doubt.  Some aren't as bad as they appear.  I don't know what emminger was supposed to be, but I thought he was supposed to be a decent young player.  So to give up the 27th pick isn't a huge deal.  Carlson just over achieved which made it look worse.

I don't feel like looking up the numbers but how do carcillo and upshall compare?  On the surface, it looked like Carrcillo was a goon and upshall was some sort of skill player.  I think carcillo had more skill than he got credit for and upshall isn't going into the HOF.  Not a big deal.

Walker turned out to be nothing but Gagne was done anyway.

Versteeg was disappointing and that's too much for him.

We talked about Bryz.  He was a disaster but was that to much to give up for him, given the situation?

Grossmann didn't do anything but 2nd and 3rd rounders don't bother me.

Kubina...whatever...not a game changer.

They should have gotten more for JVR but I wanted JVR out more than anyone so I didn't care.

There's a good chance Hextall had a hand in the MacDonald deal.  He was Homer's right hand man at that time.  I'm sure that didn't get by him without his say.

I wasnt a fan of the Richards and Carter deals at the time.  I hate long deals for anyone.  He did unload those contracts though.  Sure they got a cup.  Carter contributed and Richard was a 4th liner.  The kings also had some other guys that got them a cup.  So even though it worked out for the kings, I believe the flyers made out by getting schenn and Simmonds while unloading those big contracts.

In hextall's  two seasons, he's had some bloopers so far.  Give him 8 seasons and see if they pile up or not.

You're a "cup or failure" guy so I won't convince you that you can have success without a cup.

I'm sorry, but it's hard to have a discussion with someone who writes a post like this where up is down and black is white.  Every single one of the deals rad listed were ridiculous the day they were made.  Not hindsight.  The day they were made.  Ridiculous on their face and ridiculous in outcome.  We don't hate these deals because Holmgen made them. We hate them because every single one was intrinsically stupid. 

And Eminger was not supposed to be good.  He was horrible in Washington and they gave up on him.  He was so bad we gave up on him not 2 months into the subsequent season.  And he was bad everywhere he went.  And yes, this was predictable.  Many of us screamed as it happened. And Carlson didn't over perform.  Only in bizarro world among people not paying attention.  Many of us screamed Carlson THAT day. 

 

And the picks for people was absolutely a big deal. That's how you build an organization. It really is that simple.  I know it's no big deal to you.  But whatever.  It's ridiculous now. 

[OccamsRazor]

Sorry not to hi jack the thread but i couldn't help myself......

 

 

 

 

...now back to your regular scheduled argument!!!!!

[icehole]

@ruxpin

Ivan Vishnevskiy, Brendan Smith, John Carlson, Philippe Paradis, Mark Visentin, Vladislav Namestnikov, Henrik Samuelsson, Marko Daňo, Nikolay Goldobin, Jacob Larsson, Brett Howden

 

Do you know who 60% of these guys are?  I don't.  This is what #27 got you in the past decade.  Why was everyone flipping out when Homer gave it away?  Some of these guys never played a game in the NHL.

[icehole]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

Eminger is a bust. Carlson is a very good defenceman.  Ya...no big deal.  

Again, you're fine with getting the lesser player in the deal?

The picks? No. The contract? That was insane,

 

Insane.

 

No wonder you like Homer. Who cares about those pesky useless 2nds and 3rds. We got Ghost with a 3rd. Subban was taken with a 2nd. Josi a 2nd. Weber a 2nd. Letang a 3rd. Keith. Bergeron. Krecji. Backes. Quick. Simmonds. Stepan. Lucic. Hamonic. Marchand. Stone. Vlasic. Stastny.  Henrique. O'Reilly. Faulk. Saad. Jenner. Kucherov. All 2nds and 3rds. 

 

Who needs em? Throw em in for the Kubinas and Grossmans...those guys win you cups.

I had no problem trading JVR either. The return on the other hand...

 

It's possible Hextall wanted MCDonald. That contract has Homer written all over it though. 

 

Richards, the 4th liner who was the Kings 4th leading scorer in the regular season and playoffs for their first cup win? That's a heck of a 4th liner.

Thank God Homer was able to get himself out of TWO of the contracts he signed a bunch of guys too hey?

 

Losing cups isn't cutting it anymore for me either.

Very much like Homer, I don't care about later round picks if it can get you something that you think can help you.  You're right about that.  Even in the first round at 27, I didn't see much value.  "Bbbbbbut Carlson".  One player in 10 years isn't really overwhelming that we have to bring it up like we picked up Billy tibbits for Wayne Gretzky.

The flyers got the raw end of a lot of these deals...I'm still not debating that no matter what it looks like.  These aren't Patrick Sharp for Matt Ellison trades though.  These are more apples for apples.

 

[OccamsRazor]

42 minutes ago, icehole said:

Why was everyone flipping out when Homer gave it away?

 

 

You really don't get it do you?? I really don't know what else to say to you.

[icehole]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

You really don't get it do you?? I really don't know what else to say to you.

No, I don't.  Explain.

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, icehole said:

No, I don't.  Explain.

 

 

FC already has laid out a long list of guys whom have been found in the 2nd round and later using Ghost, Weber and Keith just to name a few. Just go back and reread his comment it will save me the time. 

[AJgoal]

Established talent always costs more. In money (Lucic 7yr/6mil per. Andrew Ladd 6 years/5.5 million per...), and in assets spent to acquire them (2 2nds for Andrew Shaw - 5th rounder for example). It's unsustainable in a cap world. It leaves you with holes that you can't fill adequately. Trading picks and prospects when a team is at the bottom is a good way to ensure mediocrity, as the top tier players are generally not the ones available in free agency or via trade because teams want to keep them. The closest thing to a team built not through the draft to win a Cup is the 10-11 Bruins who had 4 players they drafted - Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand, and Seguin. But their model wasn't sustainable and they're trending down as the Flyers trend up. 

 

I'm not a Cup or nothing guy, I've said it before, when the Phillies won the Series, I jumped up and down, went to sleep, and went to work the next morning. I didn't win anything, it's nice for me to see the team I root for win it all, but in the end I feel no attachment to the accomplishment itself. In the end I want to see overall winning hockey. Some people would, but I wouldn't trade 10 years of being in the playoffs with a few runs and no Cups for 8 years out and one Cup win (If I did, I'd root for Carolina). That said, the best way to get to that 10 years (and incidentally, a real chance for a Cup win) is to build from within. Add some pieces here and there through FA or trades, but you have to have a sustainable pipeline of talent because otherwise you can't afford it. I am excited for this team, and pleased with Hextall's overall body of work, because I feel there's a real chance at sustained success in the future.

 

And prospects don't pan out. That's why you want to have as many as possible. 

[icehole]

10 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

FC already has laid out a long list of guys whom have been found in the 2nd round and later using Ghost, Weber and Keith just to name a few. Just go back and reread his comment it will save me the time. 

I already laid out the last 10 players to be picked at #27 that haven't done a thing (besides Carlson).  He gave me a handful of players, but if you look back, I GUARANTEE the ratio of bad NHL players to good NHL players is heavily in favor of bad once you get out of the top 10 in the first round.  #27 on isn't a very valuable pick.  Why would you be upset of losing a pick the gives you a 10% chance (at best) to get a good player?

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

The closest thing to a team built not through the draft to win a Cup is the 10-11 Bruins who had 4 5 players they drafted - Bergeron, Lucic, Marchand, and Seguin. You forget their leading scorer David Krejci 23 points in 25 games!

 

 

Fixed!

 

But well said!

[flyercanuck]

11 hours ago, icehole said:

@ruxpin

Ivan Vishnevskiy, Brendan Smith, John Carlson, Philippe Paradis, Mark Visentin, Vladislav Namestnikov, Henrik Samuelsson, Marko Daňo, Nikolay Goldobin, Jacob Larsson, Brett Howden

 

Do you know who 60% of these guys are?  I don't.  This is what #27 got you in the past decade.  Why was everyone flipping out when Homer gave it away?  Some of these guys never played a game in the NHL.

 

I'll try and explain this one more time.

 

If there's a lottery for a million dollars every year, and we both have, say, 10 tickets each, every year. But you trade all your tickets to me each year for my old rubber boots, the stuff I clean out of my eavestrough and my broken lawn furniture. Who do you think will win the lottery first, you or I?

[OccamsRazor]

33 minutes ago, AJgoal said:

And prospects don't pan out. That's why you want to have as many as possible.

 

 

Best comment on the whole post. This is so true no matter the sport. It's not exact science. Do your homework to make sure you make the right choice and at the end of the day it is on the player and where his ceiling is and HOW BAD HE WANTS IT!

[ruxpin]

Just now, flyercanuck said:

 

I'll try and explain this one more time.

 

If there's a lottery for a million dollars every year, and we both have, say, 10 tickets each, every year. But you trade all your tickets to me each year for my old rubber boots, the stuff I clean out of my eavestrough and my broken lawn furniture. Who do you think will win the lottery first, you or I?

Give it up, FC.  It's got to be trolling because this is way too "no ****" stuff.