flyercanuck Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, icehole said: Yes, but those teams don't win the cup without Kane (1), toews (3), Crosby (1), seguin (2) and malkin (2). Keith, Crawford, letang, and Bergeron aren't winning cups alone. Seguin? He scored ONE goal in the playoffs. The other names I agree with...but Boston wins the cup without Seguin. The Wings won without a top 3 pick. So did the Ducks. And the Devils. But sure, it's certainly easier to tank to get those types of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: @fanaticV3.0 keep on willfully missing my point, it makes trying to communicate with you all kinds of awesome. I will spell it out for you. ALL the scouts were wrong about #14's ceiling, not just the Flyers... all of them. see ? Nowhere am I saying "he should be better because, juniors" I am saying nearly everyone got his projection wrong. Which in the context of my post defending Chris Pryor and his scouting is completely relevant. It makes you wonder about scouts sometimes. What was the scouting report on. Couturier at the time..."scored 96 points in juniors"? (Not a shot at you...just sick of hearing it.) My scouting report would say "skates like the mud and soft as tissue". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 41 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Seguin? He scored ONE goal in the playoffs. The other names I agree with...but Boston wins the cup without Seguin. The Wings won without a top 3 pick. So did the Ducks. And the Devils. But sure, it's certainly easier to tank to get those types of players. Ducks won with the 2nd pick overall Chris Pronger and Scott Neidermeyer 3rd overall.....hello!!!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDDS Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Bertmega said: Look at Detroit, they didn't have a top 3 pick and they were arguably the most successful franchise in modern history. Coupla relevant comments. Remember that it was a pre-cap era for many of those years, when Detroit could (and DID) buy their talent beyond where anyone else was willing/able to go. And let's face it, much of their success following the introduction of the cap was because of talent held over from the pre-cap era i.e. Lidstrom. The other thing that was true is that the Red Wings were WAY ahead of the average curve when it came to evaluating and drafting European talent, but even all of our European stars were drafted pre-cap. So most of our run was really from talent we drafted and acquired before the cap hit. And the fact is that other teams saw what we did and learned to better evaluate Euro talent, so our advantage in that regard is now minimal if any. And lately, our main picks have not been from Europe anyway (Mantha, Larkin, Athanasiou). It is a completely different story with the Wings post-cap. And success we have had has been residual. We have brought in middling talent, but to be frank, look at Tatar and Nyquist, now hitting WAY below expectations, and with contract cap hits which hurt. Then, you add in the stupid contracts where we have overpaid for middling talent (see Howard, Helm, Abdelkader, and even Cleary) I think it is a mistake holding Detroit up as an example of what to do post-cap, as we have a few forwards that are working out as expected, but we have swung and missed at anything closely resembling a top-2 D-man with the possible (and it's a stretch) exception of Dekeyser, who we signed undrafted primarily because he's from Michigan. Otherwise, truthfully, we have NOT been a very good team when it comes to GM's making decisions on either drafting or particularly selling talent to get picks or different talent that we really need. We are VERY good, conversely, at giving bloated contracts to undeserving players to avoid the possibility of making the one big mistake. The only exception to this was Holland dumping Datsyuk's contract cap hit. Brilliant there. Otherwise, not much to brag about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caluso Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: So you have to draft top 3 to get players that can help you contend...then you name 3 players off our roster who can help us contend none of whom were drafted top 3. Duncan Keith is as big a piece in Chicago as anyone. Picked 2nd round. So is/was Corey Crawford. Kris Letang in Pittsburgh...3rd round. Justin Williams was a late 1st rounder. Bergeron was a 2nd. Those were all key components to cup runs. I could go on and on. Of course it's easier to acquire top end talent picking top 3...but there's no guarantees. There'll always be the Daigles/Stefans/Yakupovs just like there'll always be a Jamie Benn in the 5th round. The more picks you have, the better chance of getting one. Hextall IS doing that part right. I watched many games and was blown away by the skill level of many players. Some Flyer prospects. Sandstrom, Myers and Vorobyov played very well and might turn out to be good players. (Tomek was overwhelmed but did ok; Hart was very inconsistent; Bernhardt was a mild surpise) It is true that we had the most prospects of any team represented, but we did not have the most top-tier talent represented. How many of our guys will ultimately elevate our forward core? Kase and Laczynski will never be top 6 forwards; in fact, our top picks from the 2016 draft were: Rubstov was relegated to 6:30 min TOI on the fourth line; Labarge did not make the team; Allison did not make the team; Hart, inconsistent (I am a big believer in him, nonetheless). My question to you is how many top 6 forwards do we have in the AHL? ZERO How many top six forwards do we have within our prospect pool? Who knows? How many late picks have worked out for us? None Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, caluso said: My question to you is how many top 6 forwards do we have in the AHL? I say two. Leier (although 2nd line LW could be his max) and Aube- Kubel has the potential. And then I would say Lindblom in the SEL. In the CHL i can see Laberge be up there if given time to develop. He minds me of a young Gagne. The in the NCAA you have Wade Allison. So they have them. Are they top 5 picks no. But these guys have a lot of upside. Just give these guys time. How many times have we seen the top guys NOT develop (hello Scott Glennie and Zach Hamill)!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 As far as our prospects over seas is concerned. What does everyone think Rubstov, Vorobyov, and Lindblom will do once they come over seas? Will they be an immediate impact? Stay and play with the Phantoms for a year or so? What does everyone think of their potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Flyer's team in a nutshell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Philly29 said: What does everyone think Rubstov, Vorobyov, and Lindblom will do once they come over seas? Ruby will play the next year at least in juniors. Then the following year he could be on the Phantoms. Vorobyov could be a Phantom next and should be. As well as Lindblom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobie Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: This is reasonable and I agree. Caluso was saying (to paraphrase) "Chris Pryor is the problem,". I don't think that's the case. I was pointing out Pryor's and the (scouting staff's) big misses which I think can fairly include Laughton and Couturier. I think the pick of Scott Laughton when Olli Maata was still on board is a miss, In the case of Couturier the Flyers staff was "with the herd" thinking that Sean Couturier would be a top 6 pro- you are right, we're seeing this is not the case. I didn't appreciate the snark because you weren't making sandwiches with lunch meat, cheese and bread I was putting on the table. Olli Maatta was available but so were Jankowski, Gaunce, Samuelsson and Matteau? This is a 20/20 guessing game all teams can exposed as wanting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Will the Philadelphia Flyers make the playoffs? http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/HockeyBuzz-Hotstove/Will-the-Philadelphia-Flyers-make-the-playoffs/187/82156 Todd CordellI think the Flyers will make the playoffs.They aren't as good as they looked when they won 10 in a row, but they certainly aren't as bad as they've looked while losing 11 of 14.To me, they have too much talent not to right the ship. If the Flyers can get a save or two from Steve Mason/Michal Neuvirth and they stop shooting themselves in the foot by a) overplaying Andrew MacDonald and; b) doing ridiculous things like healthy scratching Shayne Gostisbehere, they should be fine.In saying that, the Carolina Hurricanes are winning a lot of games right now and looking very good while doing so. I think the Flyers will end up holding them off, but they're a legitimate threat.Peter TessierI think the Flyers can muscle it out and make it but it's going to require a bit of luck and a bit of change. The pieces are there to be competitive but like most teams the Flyers are streaky, but to the extreme. To get through the current malaise the Flyers will need to have Hakstol give his young guys time to 'work it out' and some support at the right time. The downside for the Flyers is that if any other team below them starts to play more consistent winning hockey the pressure only builds. Yes, they pull it off but there will be some drama as it all comes down. Another opinion..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caluso Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 39 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Ruby will play the next year at least in juniors. Then the following year he could be on the Phantoms. Vorobyov could be a Phantom next and should be. As well as Lindblom. i really hope that those players, and more, turn out to be legit. I am willing to be as patient as is necessary as long as the team is on the right trajectory. I am the one who suggested tanking this year. But we have a lot of ground to make up: Toronto and Buffalo tanked and acquired top-tier talent and are on the rise. Then there is Pitss, NYR, Wash, and Columbus, all of whom are way better than we are right now. The harsh reality is unless we significantly upgrade our roster, we will be spinning our wheels for years. Leier is not a top 6 forward right now (his play with the big club showed that) and neither is Aube-K. They are serviceable, but have bottom 6 potential. And, sadly, most of our roster is littered with bottom 6 guys. I am optimistic about Vorobyov, but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Ducks won with the 2nd pick overall Chris Pronger and Scott Neidermeyer 3rd overall.....hello!!!???? Not their picks. Philly had 1st overall Vinnie LeCavalier and Alexandre daigle and Pronger and Hawerchuk and...where's our cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Philly29 said: As far as our prospects over seas is concerned. What does everyone think Rubstov, Vorobyov, and Lindblom will do once they come over seas? Will they be an immediate impact? Stay and play with the Phantoms for a year or so? What does everyone think of their potential? Rubtsov is already over....he hasn't played yet (injured) but is in the Q. He's got a lot of potential. People worried about his ice time in the WJs shouldn't be..he was an 18 year old brought over to get his feet wet in a 19 year olds tournament. Vorobiov looks like he'll be a great 3rd liner. Maybe that doesn't sound so awesome, but it's something every contender has. Lindblom definitely sounds like he has top 6 potential. He's 4 points out of 1st place in scoring in the SHL...as a 20 year old, that's impressive. All 3 should spend time with the Phantoms first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 17 hours ago, murraycraven said: I believe if Couts was the 1st C this team would be undefeated! Put G on the left wing n the 3rd line and we win a cup this year! Need to laugh Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Check this effort on the back check....if Flyer forwards would/could show this effort... ...they would certainly win more games!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Check this effort on the back check....if Flyer forwards would/could show this effort... ...they would certainly win more games!!!! Would you say 9 out of 10 prospects are quest? When you get them then bring them along slowly. Do the Detroit thing. By the away you need a good 3rd and 4th lines. Also 3 to 6 defensive and depth . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 8 hours ago, icehole said: Here's how the topics rank right now. Cowboys losing is the biggest story 12-26 sixers are creating a buzz. Eagles NFL playoffs NBA in general Flyers College basketball Phillies talk will ramp up once spring training starts. Hextall has drained any excitement for hockey out of the city of Philadelphia. If that's legitimately the order, they may actually be doing slightly better than usual. Ordinarily, college basketball, Phillies, hot dog eating contests, YMCA basketball league, and hopscotch on Delaware Avenue come before the Flyers. I hear what you're saying. I just think we're only 2 years in on the blow it up thing. You may be completely right. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong. Time will tell, but I think we're a lot better off than we have been in terms of what's coming down the pike than we have been in a really long time. It's different than what we failed with for the last couple of decades, so I'm willing to stick with the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 So what would we get for G and others? A top prospects a player now and a high pick. So looking team want young guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 28 minutes ago, Jam1986 said: By the away you need a good 3rd and 4th lines. They have a lot of good pieces on the Flyers to build around but all of the good stuff is on the way and we all have to remain patient till then get here. They will trickle in for lack of a better word they all won't arrive at the same time. Hextall is doing his due diligence drafting and scouting i think sure he won't hit on all of them but so far i think he doing a good job. Now he just has to remain on course and locate and remove the guys who aren't going to be a part of the rebuild (which they are already in year two of) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jam1986 said: So what would we get for G and others? I'm not in the trade G camp. But sure if they were to give you an offer you can't refuse i'd listen...no harm in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, ruxpin said: Time will tell, but I think we're a lot better off than we have been in terms of what's coming down the pike than we have been in a really long time. in a really really long time. We're loaded with goalie prospects, defensive prospects, somewhat less so on fwds. That is a gigantic improvement from years past when you'd look out on the ice and see ZERO "homegrown" Flyers. Hextall's plan as far as I could tell is to secure the goaltending position, draft well (looking esp for D-men), somehow lose the Homer stiffs and find a new HC. I think he's accomplished a helluva lot in 2 years. Mason may or may not be "the answer" but he's the best goalie we've had in years. Hakstol - same story. So that's goaltending and HC. The D prospects are already moving up...Konecny was a nice surprise this year - he'll only get better. I mean...what's the panic all about? Blow it up? What, again? you were right when you said this is the blow-it-up phase - we're in the middle of it - it's only natural to stink for awhile, then win a handful in a row, etc. Some nights the best players will give a poor effort and that's natural. Do we really expect Giroux, Simmonds, Mason, Voracek etc. to go 110% every shift on a team that's as likely to miss the POs as make the POs? They know better than us this is not a good team yet. I know it sounds like I'm making excuses but I'm just trying to be realistic. If they're the professionals I think they are they won't let the F-it attitude fester for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam1986 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Will say to players who have some weight that others listen to on team. 1 needs to be on d for our young d-men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, canoli said: Do we really expect Giroux, Simmonds, Mason, Voracek etc. to go 110% every shift on a team that's as likely to miss the POs as make the POs? Yes. Once you have accepted that you won't make it then you become that. I can not and will not accept them not giving their all while there is plenty of time to make the playoffs. Anything otherwise is cancerous and needs to be removed from this team ASAP. You can not build a team with guys who only want to play when it suits them. No way. Total bullshiit to accept that. The fans are paying their hard earned money to see these games because despite whatever is going on they believe they can make it....without that desire there is no point in coming to the rink. If the Kings had that mindset back in 2012 they would of never made the playoffs as a 8th seed and would have never won their 1st Cup. Can't and won't ever tolerate not give it your all...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 To piggyback on top of my last comment... “The worst thing you can do is overreact when things aren’t going right and that’s not gonna happen,” general manager Ron Hextall said, “but if we can find a way to make ourselves better we will.” Yes don't panick stay the course and trim the dead weight...let the cards fall where they may..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.