murraycraven Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 minute ago, AJgoal said: To me, tanking isn't what the Flyers would be doing if they conceded the season at the deadline and traded off expiring contracts - Del Zotto, Streit, Neuvirth, etc. That's responsible asset management. just to note... this is not my version of "tanking" either. if they can cut bait with a few contracts that are expiring then by all means do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 hour ago, AJgoal said: This isn't a great year to "tank" anyway. Meltzer spelled it out pretty nicely in his blog today. The draft has very little apparent high end talent. The way I understand it, there's a lot of center depth, but nobody that's going to blow scouts away as a bonafide number 1 player on a team, or even much in the way of consensus top line players. That's not to say that there won't be several good players to come out of the draft, it's just that moving up several spots isn't going to have the same impact it might have had last year or the year before. This is the type of year where your scouting and development teams prove their worth by finding those guys that develop ahead of where they project. So acquiring more picks is useful, but losing so you draft 7th instead of 13th is less helpful this year. I'd actually like to see Hextall acquire future draft picks this year, moreso than additional picks in this draft. I hate hearing when someone says 'this draft isn't a great year.' There are ALWAYS franchise players that come out of drafts. We've been spoiled recently with regards to 'generational' players, but there is a lot of good players in this draft. Meltzer says it might be weak, but it's very European heavy and the top North American guys might not quite compare to the European guys. That's what's aggravating the scouts. Just look at them. They're clamouring for every reason to tout Nolan Patrick the top guy, but Swiss Nico Herschier is actually the top guy this draft. If he were Canadian, ther'es no doubt in my mind he'd be number one. But, because he's Swiss, they look for every reason why he's not the number one guy and the only thing they can come up with is that he'll need to repeat his success to 'prove' his one season wasn't a fluke. What kind of BS garbage is that? Seriously though. This draft is the year to load up on European prospects. However, I will say this. In terms of North Americans, Gabe Vilardi and Michael Rasmussen would be awesome choices if the Flyers land a pick in the top 10. I figure Vilardi will go 3rd or 4th, but Rasmussen will go later. He's got Flyer written all over him. Big, strong, relentless on the forecheck, fantastic skater, great hands and did I mention size? If not, 6'5, 215 pounds. He's got Flyer written all over him. However, I'd certainly have no problems with Martin Necas or Elias Pettersson if the Flyers look European. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertmega Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Nothing instills pride and confidence into a squad like tanking purposely. Does it go down with the coach or GM saying, "hey guys you clearly are not good enough to do squat in this league, so please plan on losing so we can bring undrafted talent into the system." I think the logical thing to do is play to win and continue to see what works and what isn't working. If they feel close enough, then they're probably going to have to explore the trade route to beef up the top six. The bottom six is fine IMO. My trade bait includes: Ghost Couturier Schenn Del Zotto Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer4ever Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 All the tank talk is speculation, we don't know what the so called "brain trust" (Clarke, Holmgren, Hextall) is going to do. I do know this much though, the Flyers have no track record at drafting and developing talent. They have tried only to outspend the rest of the league. We will know soon if the current group in LV will become NHL worthy. Until they prove they can be patient AND develop these kids the tank talk is just that, talk. I do hope they trade some of the dead wood on the current roster, I think some of them would do well in limited rolls with a contender. I would also like to add this. Championship hockey teams always have this in common, and that is TEAM comes first. Chicago is a great example of this. You have to put a young group together and let them grow together. The Flyers inconsistent play this year tells me this group might not be that kind of team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 5 hours ago, Howie58 said: Something tells me the Snider DNA precludes a tank model like the Sixers. But a responsible GM is probably like a responsible PM or President---she/he can't take an armed response off the table or else would be enemies may actually shoot. A responsible GM has to listen to offers.. Next year will be the first time in the post-2004 era (I think) we have some cap to wheel and deal with. Maybe Hexy decides to get somebody. Or he keeps accumulating picks. Whatever. The point is he will not be able to blame his predecessor much longer for the sins of commission. I think Hexy has two years to get us in the top 10 or we have to judge his "rebuild" (or whatever) a failure. If we get there with trades, FA....almost don't give a poop. What I know is that we have a coach playing Sominex hockey because the skill I see on a Columbus, New York, or Pitt ain't present on this squad That needs to change...and as a fan...or a Comcast manager....I would lose patience with the slop we've had for much of decade+ since the "big strike." On a related note--I think Giroux's play is suspect. I really hope we aren't seeing a cliff fall on his talent. I just dont agree with you about the skill. The penguins sure. Rangers are iffy. But the blue jackets don't have much skill certainly not more than the rangers and I don't think demonstrably more than the flyers. They are a more balanced team that is working a system built for them quite well with a steadier goalie. Lets not not talk about bob or we'll both get upset. Would you trade Ghost for werenski? Wennernerg for G? jones for Provo? Maybe... but are you getting a huge return that you feel great about in any of Jose deals? Maybe just beCause Wennerbwrg but is so young. Atkinson for Simmer? Maybe? Probably not. coots for Voracek? Nope. Dubinsky for coots? Nope. Folignonfor Shenn? Maybe probably not though. Maybe Harts for Raffl. Okay I'd do that probably. Adjusted for positional matchups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 49 minutes ago, flyer4ever said: the Flyers have no track record at drafting and developing talent. They have tried only to outspend the rest of the league. They do have such a track record for forwards, just. It in D. They just trade these guys however. Last 15 years: Gagne, Willy, Rusty, Richards, Carter, Sharp, Giroux just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 7 hours ago, murraycraven said: I agree.... but the argument is against the system the NHL has/had... Not an actual Team (IE: Pens)... if we are using that as a metric the Flyers could also be faulted for getting The Big E and there was a ton of Flyer hatred from that entire ordeal. You win some and you lose some... I also believe that Kane would have been run out of this town based on his immaturity. I am not really one for conspiracy theories... My main point is that getting a good draft picks does not always make a team a contender- as you say, look at the Oilers. That could change now b/c they have a generational-type talent in McJesus. I think the entire conversation is moot b/c I really don't see Hextall going this route - regardless of what is "plan" is these days. Do I want to see improvement - absolutely. But I rather them suck for the sake of being a below average team than tanking on purpose. Teams have to address needs, I m not sure if the Oilers did that? It seemed as if they forgot about the defensive zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 7 hours ago, notfondajane said: Teams have to address needs, I m not sure if the Oilers did that? It seemed as if they forgot about the defensive zone. The Oilers got RNH/Hall/Yakupov with their top picks before McDavid came along. The Pens got Crosby, and Malkin (and Fleury, which turned out to be a terrible 1st overall pick in the best draft ever) There's your big difference. If the Pens got RNH and Yakupov instead of 87 & 71 they'd be in Quebec via Kansas and still looking for their 3rd cup. Luck of the draw.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share Posted February 14, 2017 @King Knut... You must be a politically correct democrat with no sense of humor. My name and picture have nothing to do with my hockey knowledge. Don't forget the democratic mantra, tolerance and diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, RonJeremy said: @King Knut... You must be a politically correct democrat with no sense of humor. My name and picture have nothing to do with my hockey knowledge. Don't forget the democratic mantra, tolerance and diversity. or maybe, you are just a russian spy??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheslot Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Flyers are going to get younger at the trade deadline.. Out with the old In with the new ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, RonJeremy said: @King Knut... You must be a politically correct democrat with no sense of humor. My name and picture have nothing to do with my hockey knowledge. Don't forget the democratic mantra, tolerance and diversity. No, I'm merely a conservative evangelical christian who finds that sort of thing disgusting and untoward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notfondajane Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 7 hours ago, flyercanuck said: The Oilers got RNH/Hall/Yakupov with their top picks before McDavid came along. The Pens got Crosby, and Malkin (and Fleury, which turned out to be a terrible 1st overall pick in the best draft ever) There's your big difference. If the Pens got RNH and Yakupov instead of 87 & 71 they'd be in Quebec via Kansas and still looking for their 3rd cup. Luck of the draw.. Maybe the Pens did a better job of scouting than the Oilers! I'm Luke warm about having Fleury as a netminder! I will agree the Pens were/are extremely fortunate to be where they are at! The Flyers did go to the Stanley Cup finals 8 times which is a very good sign of success! Especially being in business for 50 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ8812 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 20 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Well Hextall won't do it he wants them to stay down and not be yo yod around. I agree with it. Having them come up to play 5-10 games isn't going to hurt their development in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, RJ8812 said: Having them come up to play 5-10 games isn't going to hurt their development in any way I've long espoused this idea. When they're looking comfortable in the AHL, bring them up for a few games (10 might be a lot a this point in the season) and let them get just a taste of the size and the speed of the NHL. Then send them back down to play a bit with that in mind. Keeps them from getting too comfortable with being "AHL Good" and prepares them a bit mentally for next year when hopefully we'll be seeing them more. Some folks would rather them play in the AHL until they're 25... like Lyons will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 oh boy.... good thing polaris is not on this post!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, intheslot said: Flyers are going to get younger at the trade deadline.. Out with the old In with the new ... I sincerely hope this is true. But I fear it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 36 minutes ago, King Knut said: No, I'm merely a conservative evangelical christian who finds that sort of thing disgusting and untoward. agree.... and the massacre that took place at Bowling Green was super tragic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 41 minutes ago, notfondajane said: Maybe the Pens did a better job of scouting than the Oilers! I'm Luke warm about having Fleury as a netminder! I will agree the Pens were/are extremely fortunate to be where they are at! The Flyers did go to the Stanley Cup finals 8 times which is a very good sign of success! Especially being in business for 50 years! Better job of scouting? Crosby was a no brainer #1 pick. Malkin was a no brainer #2 pick...or #1, it was basically take what was left of him and Ovechkin. EVERYONE knew that. You guys took Stall over Toews at #2, that wasn't a great pick, and Fleury #1 was terrible. RNH wasn't a bad pick at #1 in 2011..it just wasn't a great draft as far as franchise players go. Same with Taylor Hall or Yakupov...no matter who was doing the scouting, Landeskog/Seguin/Murray/Galchenyuk...take your pick, NONE of them are Crosby. You can pick #1 all you want...if there aren't great players available it's going to take you longer to get better. McDavid has helped Edmonton more than their 3 previous #1 picks combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 39 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Better job of scouting? Crosby was a no brainer #1 pick. Malkin was a no brainer #2 pick...or #1, it was basically take what was left of him and Ovechkin. EVERYONE knew that. You guys took Stall over Toews at #2, that wasn't a great pick, and Fleury #1 was terrible. RNH wasn't a bad pick at #1 in 2011..it just wasn't a great draft as far as franchise players go. Same with Taylor Hall or Yakupov...no matter who was doing the scouting, Landeskog/Seguin/Murray/Galchenyuk...take your pick, NONE of them are Crosby. You can pick #1 all you want...if there aren't great players available it's going to take you longer to get better. McDavid has helped Edmonton more than their 3 previous #1 picks combined. You need to get lucky by who is in the draft and you need to be lucky enough to not get screwed out of the #1 slot. In my estimation the lottery has really only worked to screw more deserving teams out of the #1 position. And I'm not saying that just because of Kane. Though I am a little bit. The Oilers actually weren't dead last when they got McDavid. The Sabres got screwed out of him. Though Eichel isn't exactly anything to spit at. It just seems to me the draft is kinda screwing teams that actually sucked and needed help more than helping prevent them from tanking on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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