It's time to go in the tank and prepare for draft

[RonJeremy]

This team is going nowhere, its time to clean house and dump as many pending UFAs as we can.  This way we lose a bunch of games and get a high draft pick this year. We can also call up Stolarz, and a few guys of this group that you feel is closest to being NHL ready ...Morin, Sachem , Haag, Leier , Weal , etc. In doing this, our prospects can get valuable experience, we can get an idea of whose ready for next year . In trading our FA players we can get some picks and maybe we can trade a couple of second rounders for a first and get another Konecny as well as a top 10 pick. We need to speed up this rebuild, I'd like to get two good scoring wingers in this draft 

 

[RonJeremy]

That's Sanheim....iPad auto spell sucks

[OccamsRazor]

25 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

This team is going nowhere, its time to clean house and dump as many pending UFAs as we can.  This way we lose a bunch of games and get a high draft pick this year. We can also call up Stolarz, and a few guys of this group that you feel is closest to being NHL ready ...Morin, Sachem , Haag, Leier , Weal , etc. In doing this, our prospects can get valuable experience, we can get an idea of whose ready for next year . In trading our FA players we can get some picks and maybe we can trade a couple of second rounders for a first and get another Konecny as well as a top 10 pick. We need to speed up this rebuild, I'd like to get two good scoring wingers in this draft 

 

 

 

It's coming. I don't thnk they have to tank the reality is they just aren't that good.

 

Where they fall is still anyone's guess.

 

It will sort itself out soon. I think Hexy will move as much as he can before the deadline.

 

As far as the kids go i think you may see Hagg soon but that may be it.

 

The reason being is he wants to get those kids some playoff experience down in the AHL first. They have fought so hard to get the Phantoms back to the playoffs it would be good for their development. More so than maybe squeaking in the playoffs and playing on a not so good team to get bounced quick.

 

I trust he'll make the right call there with them. The will get their time soon it's coming. I expect maybe Sanheim and Morin to make it next year out of camp.

[OccamsRazor]

I also expect Stolie to be the backup next year too.

 

They have to make room. Lyon will be the starter down there and i expect Merrick Madsen to join to backup him up.

[notfondajane]

I'm hoping that the Flyers aren't planning to tank! I personally hate when a team doesn't make a honest effort to win a game  (this includes the Pens)! Good luck the rest of the season 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

42 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

This team is going nowhere, its time to clean house and dump as many pending UFAs as we can.  This way we lose a bunch of games and get a high draft pick this year. We can also call up Stolarz, and a few guys of this group that you feel is closest to being NHL ready ...Morin, Sachem , Haag, Leier , Weal , etc. In doing this, our prospects can get valuable experience, we can get an idea of whose ready for next year . In trading our FA players we can get some picks and maybe we can trade a couple of second rounders for a first and get another Konecny as well as a top 10 pick. We need to speed up this rebuild, I'd like to get two good scoring wingers in this draft 

 

 

Bang on!!!! I'm all for the tank. Put Giroux on injured reserve for the rest of the year and let his hip and abdomen heal up. Let him go into an off season for once relatively healthy and unscathed. Move Mason, Neuvirth, Streit, Schultz, MDZ, Bellemare, and VdV. Bring up Leier and have him play on the third line with Schenn and Cousins. Move Weise to the fourth line and have him play with Lyubimov and Read. Weal stays on the left side of Cousins and Voracek and the top line is Raffl in the middle with Simmons and Greg Carey on the wings (Carey deserves a call up).

 

Defense might be a bit more of a work, simply because I want Morin and Sanheim to stay in Lehigh Valley. People call me crazy, but seeing as to how they are a big part of the future on the blue line, let them become the starting pair in Lehigh Valley and let them run the PP, PK and even strength. Enough of the TJ Brennan show. He can be relegated to second pairing duty. But yeah, Hagg and Alt I'd call up and then grab someone who's been waived to fill in the gaps.

 

Does it suck? Yep, but at the same time, we get to see who can and can't play. The team is freed up of money and they still don't blow anything with regards to the expansion draft. As I mentioned in another post, the Flyers will still have $18,525,000 coming off the books after this year. Add in Matt Read being chosen in the expansion draft (and honestly, that's the guy they'll take from Philadelphia), that's another 3.625 million coming off the books. The Flyers will have over $22 million in cap space available for free agency and the summer. They'll be in a position to take advantage of teams with salary cap issues. This could be a GREAT way for Hextall to help the rebuild process.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

3 minutes ago, notfondajane said:

I'm hoping that the Flyers aren't planning to tank! I personally hate when a team doesn't make a honest effort to win a game  (this includes the Pens)! Good luck the rest of the season 

 

I hate tanking as well, but at the same time, when the team is 50+ games into the season, are mired in mediocrity and have a chance to hit the reset the button and get a chance to evaluate young talent for the rest of the year, this is the time to do it. I hate it when a team starts a season with the idea of tanking right from the get go. There's a big difference between bottoming out with 30 games to go than bottoming out right from the very start of the year. That annoys me.

 

[notfondajane]

16 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I hate tanking as well, but at the same time, when the team is 50+ games into the season, are mired in mediocrity and have a chance to hit the reset the button and get a chance to evaluate young talent for the rest of the year, this is the time to do it. I hate it when a team starts a season with the idea of tanking right from the get go. There's a big difference between bottoming out with 30 games to go than bottoming out right from the very start of the year. That annoys me.

 

I totally agree! Is it possible to prove that it happens? IMO it has to stop! It hurting the game!

I see your point about tanking with about 30 games left, a team could make trades to move up in the draft. For instance trading a player who is a so so type coupled with a 5th round pick for a 4th rounder. Or 2 so so players for a 3rd pick! 

[Howie58]

Tanking. I'd abide with accumulation of picks. We are at some kind of pivot. I think Hexy as Architect in Chief is on trial as cap space increases.

[mojo1917]

I wait until the playoffs are out of reach then I make a couple of moves to evaluate guys at the NHL level.

I totally like @BobbyClarkeFan16 's idea of shutting G down and putting him on IR. 

Keeping Morin and Sanhiem in LV is a good idea too, actually, the player evals in the NHL should be limited engagements so guys who are vital pieces in LV can return for the Calder cup playoffs, get a taste of winning and winning together. 

I don't know if I'd consider this "tanking, but once the mythical " get in and anything can happen" can't, looking toward the future and seeing who has an NHL viable game wouldn't hurt. 

As we get closer to the trade deadline I reckon we'll see how our team will continue to develop.

 

[radoran]

8 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I wait until the playoffs are out of reach then I make a couple of moves to evaluate guys at the NHL level.

I totally like @BobbyClarkeFan16 's idea of shutting G down and putting him on IR.

 

Kinda hard to "shut down" and "put on IR" a guy who was just in the media saying he feels "100%"

[mojo1917]

@radoran

yeah, but I think he's full of ****. Something is not right with the guy.

[RJ8812]

16 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

 

It's coming. I don't thnk they have to tank the reality is they just aren't that good.

 

Where they fall is still anyone's guess.

 

It will sort itself out soon. I think Hexy will move as much as he can before the deadline.

 

As far as the kids go i think you may see Hagg soon but that may be it.

 

The reason being is he wants to get those kids some playoff experience down in the AHL first. They have fought so hard to get the Phantoms back to the playoffs it would be good for their development. More so than maybe squeaking in the playoffs and playing on a not so good team to get bounced quick.

 

I trust he'll make the right call there with them. The will get their time soon it's coming. I expect maybe Sanheim and Morin to make it next year out of camp.

 

Bringing some of them up to get a few games in won't have any effect on them getting playoff experience in the AHL. They'll all be returned to the Phantoms in time for the playoffs 

 

Also the Flyers aren't just going to tank like the Leafs did last season where all their better veteran players magically suffered season ending injuries as the season neared the end

[radoran]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@radoran

yeah, but I think he's full of ****. Something is not right with the guy.

 

Unfortunately, it been that way the past few seasons.

 

Point totals: 86-73-67-60 (projected)

 

Is something "not right" or is he just on a declining trend?

 

From where I sit, he's a victim of not having a supporting cast and being on, essentially, a one line team. In the NHL, teams can shut that down pretty well these days.

 

But he's also turning 30 and might be on the far side of his peak (which was 4-5-6 years ago).

[King Knut]

18 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

This team is going nowhere, its time to clean house and dump as many pending UFAs as we can.  This way we lose a bunch of games and get a high draft pick this year. We can also call up Stolarz, and a few guys of this group that you feel is closest to being NHL ready ...Morin, Sachem , Haag, Leier , Weal , etc. In doing this, our prospects can get valuable experience, we can get an idea of whose ready for next year . In trading our FA players we can get some picks and maybe we can trade a couple of second rounders for a first and get another Konecny as well as a top 10 pick. We need to speed up this rebuild, I'd like to get two good scoring wingers in this draft 

 

 

I honestly can't take this seriously or even read it based on your name and picture.  

[murraycraven]

I will just say this....

 

I we were to actually tank on purpose (not happening) I don't want to see another poster on this forum rip the Pens for tanking an getting Crosby and Malkin.     

 

I want no parts of a tank and think this Team can make some moves to improve.   A lot is gonna depend on Captain Claude - is her hurt or is he simply on the decline?   We will find out soon enough but I want no parts of a legitimate tank.   

[King Knut]

15 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

I will just say this....

 

I we were to actually tank on purpose (not happening) I don't want to see another poster on this forum rip the Pens for tanking an getting Crosby and Malkin.     

 

I want no parts of a tank and think this Team can make some moves to improve.   A lot is gonna depend on Captain Claude - is her hurt or is he simply on the decline?   We will find out soon enough but I want no parts of a legitimate tank.   

 

To be fair, the problem with Crosby and Malkin wasn't that they tanked on purpose.  It's more extenuating than that.

 

a) They got top 5 draft picks 5 years in a row.  

b) they actually got screwed out of the #1 pick for Malkin.  Had they won, they'd have gotten Ovechkin and Crosby.

c) The problem with Crosby wasn't that they earned him by tanking, they earned nothing  NO HOCKEY had been played that year.  They were awarded the number one pick in the draft DESPITE the fact that they weren't the worse team in the league or even one of the five worst.  There was no worse team in the league.  

That's where the unfairness and B.S. cries came from.  

 

The conspiracy to get Crosby actually went back to the year before because if they'd been awarded Ovechkin, they'd have been inelligible for Crosby, though somehow getting Malkin wasn't a disqualifier.  

 

Seeing how much Malkin (or Fleury or Whitney) helped their team didn't factor in because they didn't play hockey that year.  

 

So when the Flyers tank 3 years in a row, don't play the 4th and STILL get a #1 pick on a much hyped generational talent.... then we can talk about not complaining.

 

Tanking to get picks is a strategy.  I don't think the Flyers should be thinking of doing it now, but it is a strategy.  I don't disagree with it in theory or on any fundamental basis.  The problem I have is when the Flyers actually DO suck horribly, and have the chance at a true semi-generational talent in the draft... the lottery screws us and we get JVR, who we then trade for a mediocre D man we have to ship out of town for pucks and cap room a few years later.  

 

Some teams can succeed by sucking on purpose (in two more years maybe it'll help the oilers who have been doing it for half a decade) I don't think the Flyers have that kind of luck.  Does anyone else?

 

I also don't think they need it.  I also don't think there is the kind of talent in this draft to make it worthwhile.  

[murraycraven]

16 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

To be fair, the problem with Crosby and Malkin wasn't that they tanked on purpose.  It's more extenuating than that.

 

a) They got top 5 draft picks 5 years in a row.  

b) they actually got screwed out of the #1 pick for Malkin.  Had they won, they'd have gotten Ovechkin and Crosby.

c) The problem with Crosby wasn't that they earned him by tanking, they earned nothing  NO HOCKEY had been played that year.  They were awarded the number one pick in the draft DESPITE the fact that they weren't the worse team in the league or even one of the five worst.  There was no worse team in the league.  

That's where the unfairness and B.S. cries came from.  

 

The conspiracy to get Crosby actually went back to the year before because if they'd been awarded Ovechkin, they'd have been inelligible for Crosby, though somehow getting Malkin wasn't a disqualifier.  

 

Seeing how much Malkin (or Fleury or Whitney) helped their team didn't factor in because they didn't play hockey that year.  

 

So when the Flyers tank 3 years in a row, don't play the 4th and STILL get a #1 pick on a much hyped generational talent.... then we can talk about not complaining.

 

Tanking to get picks is a strategy.  I don't think the Flyers should be thinking of doing it now, but it is a strategy.  I don't disagree with it in theory or on any fundamental basis.  The problem I have is when the Flyers actually DO suck horribly, and have the chance at a true semi-generational talent in the draft... the lottery screws us and we get JVR, who we then trade for a mediocre D man we have to ship out of town for pucks and cap room a few years later.  

 

Some teams can succeed by sucking on purpose (in two more years maybe it'll help the oilers who have been doing it for half a decade) I don't think the Flyers have that kind of luck.  Does anyone else?

 

I also don't think they need it.  I also don't think there is the kind of talent in this draft to make it worthwhile.  

 

 

I agree.... but the argument is against the system the NHL has/had...  Not an actual Team (IE:  Pens)...  if we are using that as a metric the Flyers could also be faulted for getting The Big E and there was a ton of Flyer hatred from that entire ordeal.   You win some and you lose some... I also believe that Kane would have been run out of this town based on his immaturity.    I am not really one for conspiracy theories...

 

 

My main point is that getting a good draft picks does not always make a team a contender- as you say, look at the Oilers.   That could change now b/c they have a generational-type talent in McJesus.   I think the entire conversation is moot b/c I really don't see Hextall going this route - regardless of what is "plan" is these days.

 

Do I want to see improvement - absolutely.   But I rather them suck for the sake of being a below average team than tanking on purpose.    

 

 

 

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, murraycraven said:

 

 

I agree.... but the argument is against the system the NHL has/had...  Not an actual Team (IE:  Pens)...

 

Getting a good draft picks does not always make a team good - as you say, look at the Oilers.   That could change now b/c they have a generational-type talent in McJesus.   I think the entire conversation is moot b/c I really don't see Hextall going this route - regardless of what is "plan" is these days.

 

Blackhawks got a couple of high picks with Toews and Kane, but Keith and the rest weren't really that high were they?  The Kings certainly built much more slowly through development and acquisitions.  

 

As much as I kinda hate the NHL system, I'm not sure what the alternative is.  Are there alt. suggestions.  

 

 

 

[RJ8812]

Actually, if they would have gotten the #1 pick and go Ovechkin that year, their chances of "winning" the lottery and getting Crosby would have been much lower 

[King Knut]

28 minutes ago, RJ8812 said:

Actually, if they would have gotten the #1 pick and go Ovechkin that year, their chances of "winning" the lottery and getting Crosby would have been much lower 

 

That's what I meant.  Or weren't you referring to me?

[Howie58]

Something tells me the Snider DNA precludes a tank model like the Sixers.  But a responsible GM is probably like a responsible PM or President---she/he can't take an armed response off the table or else would be enemies may actually shoot. A responsible GM has to listen to offers..

 

Next year will be the first time in the post-2004 era (I think) we have some cap to wheel and deal with.  Maybe Hexy decides to get somebody.  Or he keeps accumulating picks.  Whatever.  The point is he will not be able to blame his predecessor much longer for the sins of commission. I think Hexy has two years to get us in the top 10 or we have to judge his "rebuild" (or whatever) a failure.  If we get there with trades, FA....almost don't give a poop.  What I know is that we have a coach playing Sominex hockey because the skill I see on a Columbus, New York, or Pitt ain't present on this squad  That needs to change...and as a fan...or a Comcast manager....I would lose patience with the slop we've had for much of decade+ since the "big strike."

 

On a related note--I think Giroux's play is suspect.  I really hope we aren't seeing a cliff fall on his talent. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, RJ8812 said:

 

Bringing some of them up to get a few games in won't have any effect on them getting playoff experience in the AHL. They'll all be returned to the Phantoms in time for the playoffs 

 

Also the Flyers aren't just going to tank like the Leafs did last season where all their better veteran players magically suffered season ending injuries as the season neared the end

 

Well Hextall won't do it he wants them to stay down and not be yo yod around. I agree with it.

[murraycraven]

1 hour ago, Howie58 said:

Something tells me the Snider DNA precludes a tank model like the Sixers.  But a responsible GM is probably like a responsible PM or President---she/he can't take an armed response off the table or else would be enemies may actually shoot. A responsible GM has to listen to offers..

 

Next year will be the first time in the post-2004 era (I think) we have some cap to wheel and deal with.  Maybe Hexy decides to get somebody.  Or he keeps accumulating picks.  Whatever.  The point is he will not be able to blame his predecessor much longer for the sins of commission. I think Hexy has two years to get us in the top 10 or we have to judge his "rebuild" (or whatever) a failure.  If we get there with trades, FA....almost don't give a poop.  What I know is that we have a coach playing Sominex hockey because the skill I see on a Columbus, New York, or Pitt ain't present on this squad  That needs to change...and as a fan...or a Comcast manager....I would lose patience with the slop we've had for much of decade+ since the "big strike."

 

On a related note--I think Giroux's play is suspect.  I really hope we aren't seeing a cliff fall on his talent. 

 

 

great post.... this is exactly how I see it.   Hextall, other than the draft, has really not have much to work with in FA b/c of the cap.   With that said his early signing of Jake still bothers me (and always will) b/c he was bidding against himself in a non-contract year (Homer?!?).   Additionally, the signing of Weise was just a bad deal - the guy bring NOTHING to this Team.    We will see where Hexy's head is when he has some room to work with but right now I am not sure he even knows how his "plan" is going to turn out.   

 

Hextall has to be concerned about G's play this year.   He looks slow and old.  maybe he is hurt but maybe he is just losing some speed and skill.   Right now I think Hexy has played it safe and built through the draft but sooner or later you need to start molding the clay...   and based on some of his decisions I think there is a fair argument that his "plan" is flawed.   Maybe.... maybe not.    

 

He will be judged over the next year or two... that 5 year plan is now looking like an 8 year plan these days.  We are currently in year 3 and still stuck in neutral.

[AJgoal]

To me, tanking isn't what the Flyers would be doing if they conceded the season at the deadline and traded off expiring contracts - Del Zotto, Streit, Neuvirth, etc. That's responsible asset management. Yes, it hurts their chances (ostensibly) of climbing back into the race, but when the chances are slim to begin with, it's the smart play. Now, if they trade away Gudas and Schenn/Couturier/Voracek for futures (ie, NOT players currently in the league that can play at a comparable level) like the sixers did over the past several years, that I would take issue with.

This isn't a great year to "tank" anyway. Meltzer spelled it out pretty nicely in his blog today. The draft has very little apparent high end talent. The way I understand it, there's a lot of center depth, but nobody that's going to blow scouts away as a bonafide number 1 player on a team, or even much in the way of consensus top line players. That's not to say that there won't be several good players to come out of the draft, it's just that moving up several spots isn't going to have the same impact it might have had last year or the year before. This is the type of year where your scouting and development teams prove their worth by finding those guys that develop ahead of where they project. So acquiring more picks is useful, but losing so you draft 7th instead of 13th is less helpful this year. I'd actually like to see Hextall acquire future draft picks this year, moreso than additional picks in this draft.