icehole Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 On 10/29/2017 at 4:13 PM, flyercanuck said: Can someone tell Couturier that he can't improve once he's in the league for a few years? I don't think anyone projected a #8 pick with back to back 96 point seasons in juniors to take 7 years to improve. Even if he did 3 years in some development leagues, 4 years to become decent player might be a little underwhelming. I didn't think he had it in him but it looks like he does. I don't know if he's changed his game all that much, but I do think that he is playing more confident with better linemates. If he had this in him the entire time, shame on the flyers for not utilizing him right. Them using him as a defensive specialist did absolutely nothing for the team. They desperately needed scoring more than they needed a shut down third line. So that brings me to my next point. There's already talk about Patrick looking unimpressive. Is he just too young and underdeveloped, or is he just not suited to be on the third line with weise and Koneckny? What is the only difference in couturier's linemates this season (compared to his linemates at the start of last season when he was 2C)...TK isn't one of them. I think the flyers are in danger of retarding the growth of their #2 pick center. Weise is garbage and TK isn't going to be a consistent player (he's still a nice weapon). Is Filpulla the long term solution for the 2C? So why not put Patrick there with better linemates. Filpulla seems responsible enough to center a 3rd line geared more towards defense. Please Flyers...learn how to utilize your top talent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, icehole said: I don't think anyone projected a #8 pick with back to back 96 point seasons in juniors to take 7 years to improve. Even if he did 3 years in some development leagues, 4 years to become decent player might be a little underwhelming. I didn't think he had it in him but it looks like he does. I don't know if he's changed his game all that much, but I do think that he is playing more confident with better linemates. If he had this in him the entire time, shame on the flyers for not utilizing him right. Them using him as a defensive specialist did absolutely nothing for the team. They desperately needed scoring more than they needed a shut down third line. I didn't think he had it in him at this point either. He's played 428 games over parts of 7 seasons, and his production so far is WAY WAY beyond anything he's done. So I don't think it's sustainable the way it is now (i.e. I highly doubt he ends up at 90+ points), but he's definitely having a Selke season, and I hope the leveling off isn't too significant. I'd be really happy with a 50-60 point year from him, which seems like a breeze given his current production (and would be a 50% increase from his previous high). It just worked out so well that he was able to find that next level when we absolutely needed him to, and Giroux and Voracek are rejuvenated too. It's awesome to watch! 11 minutes ago, icehole said: So that brings me to my next point. There's already talk about Patrick looking unimpressive. Is he just too young and underdeveloped, or is he just not suited to be on the third line with weise and Koneckny? What is the only difference in couturier's linemates this season (compared to his linemates at the start of last season when he was 2C)...TK isn't one of them. I think the flyers are in danger of retarding the growth of their #2 pick center. Weise is garbage and TK isn't going to be a consistent player (he's still a nice weapon). Is Filpulla the long term solution for the 2C? So why not put Patrick there with better linemates. Filpulla seems responsible enough to center a 3rd line geared more towards defense. Please Flyers...learn how to utilize your top talent! I think Patrick has looked unimpressive in some ways, and that's not necessarily a criticism or a prediction on his ceiling. It's just a here-and-now observation. Part of that is being measured against expectations and against Hischier and other rookies. Another part is just about Patrick himself, his particular skillset, and where he is in his development. But at the end of the day, he's made enough high skill plays that NO ONE else on this team could make except maybe Giroux, and he just turned 19! It's those flashes of brilliance that tell us he will be a special player - give him two full seasons. I disagree that TK won't be a consistent player - I think he will be over time. He's also pretty special in a lot of ways, and he's just 20 years old. So when these guys are 23-24, watch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, brelic said: I didn't think he had it in him at this point either. He's played 428 games over parts of 7 seasons, and his production so far is WAY WAY beyond anything he's done. So I don't think it's sustainable the way it is now (i.e. I highly doubt he ends up at 90+ points), but he's definitely having a Selke season, and I hope the leveling off isn't too significant. I'd be really happy with a 50-60 point year from him, which seems like a breeze given his current production (and would be a 50% increase from his previous high). It just worked out so well that he was able to find that next level when we absolutely needed him to, and Giroux and Voracek are rejuvenated too. It's awesome to watch! I think Patrick has looked unimpressive in some ways, and that's not necessarily a criticism or a prediction on his ceiling. It's just a here-and-now observation. Part of that is being measured against expectations and against Hischier and other rookies. Another part is just about Patrick himself, his particular skillset, and where he is in his development. But at the end of the day, he's made enough high skill plays that NO ONE else on this team could make except maybe Giroux, and he just turned 19! It's those flashes of brilliance that tell us he will be a special player - give him two full seasons. I disagree that TK won't be a consistent player - I think he will be over time. He's also pretty special in a lot of ways, and he's just 20 years old. So when these guys are 23-24, watch out. That's how I look at it with Patrick...I compare him to the other rookies. I'm not exactly sure how the other rookies are looking, but I do think they looked better than patrick before Patrick was injured. I also saw that Hischier was playing with Hall. I wonder who the linemates are and what the role is of the other impressive rookies. I like TK but I think he's too small to grind out 82 games with consistent scoring. I see him as a guy that slips through every once in a while and can finish. He'll also be a good OT player and shootout player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 hours ago, icehole said: That's how I look at it with Patrick...I compare him to the other rookies. I'm not exactly sure how the other rookies are looking, but I do think they looked better than patrick before Patrick was injured. I also saw that Hischier was playing with Hall. I wonder who the linemates are and what the role is of the other impressive rookies. I like TK but I think he's too small to grind out 82 games with consistent scoring. I see him as a guy that slips through every once in a while and can finish. He'll also be a good OT player and shootout player. I think there is some difficulty in comparing rookies through a fairly simple lens. We all do it of course. Patrick and Hischier will always be compared for instance, as much by us here as by everyone else who care about these things. The difficulty is that players can be very different. Their effectiveness as NHL players can be hard to quantify, as it can often go beyond goals and assists. Nick Backstrom is a pretty great playmaker. He's deadly on the half wall and can slip a pass better than 99% of the league. Getzlaf is a similarly elite producer, but in his case he thrives by using his body and strength to draw dmen and find open teammates. I would argue both are equally effective players -- when Getzlaf isn't injured that is -- but their playstyles make a straight up comparison rather problematic. They're both pretty equal in terms of output -- again when healthy -- but they succeed for very different reasons. In the case of Hischier and Patrick, they've been pegged as being very different players from the onset. Every analysis I saw or read offered different comparables for both players. Typically Hischier was likened to dangler-types (e.g. Datsyuk), while Patrick was most often compared to two-way forwards (e.g. Toews). Whether those comparisons will end up being accurate is a conversation in itself, but I think it's fair to say both of those comparables are extremely effective players despite having very different skillsets. I'm not saying we shouldn't compare the two, I just think there's a good chance they end up providing very different skills to their respective teams. In the end, winning is a team effort. Neither Patrick nor Hischier nor Toews nor Datsyuk can win a game on their own. I don't think there's any doubt that Patrick can and will be a solid NHL player. The question for me is who will be up there with him when he really hits his stride. As far as this year goes: If Patrick is playing third line minutes with Weise, while Hischier is playing first line minutes with Hall, the comparison becomes even more difficult to gauge. I'm not so sure that has as much to do with Hischier's ability to play as a 1C, as it does with the Devils lack of true 1C players on the roster. If we didn't have Giroux or Couts, there's a solid chance Patrick would be getting a hard look as the 1C this year. We should be happy this isn't the case imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 3 hours ago, icehole said: I don't think anyone projected a #8 pick with back to back 96 point seasons in juniors to take 7 years to improve. Really so all this had nothing to do with the way the team used and deployed him and his linemates....it was all on the player... ....right???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said: Really so all this had nothing to do with the way the team used and deployed him and his linemates....it was all on the player... ....right???? I think I said that same thing later in the post...didn't I? I said that I didn't think he had it in him, but giving him good linemates in a scoring role seems to show that he does have it in him. Shame on the flyers for using him the way they did...Patrick is being used wrong...yada yada yada. Any of this sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, icehole said: I think I said that same thing later in the post...didn't I? I said that I didn't think he had it in him, but giving him good linemates in a scoring role seems to show that he does have it in him. Shame on the flyers for using him the way they did...Patrick is being used wrong...yada yada yada. Any of this sound familiar? Well maybe it is their way of getting the young promising forward to be ready when they are ready. Let him concentrate on the defensive side first because they think they have the offense down. Look at the results...right......sure may have taken longer than most would like. Now can they get someone to be considered a sniper....this team is choke full of passers!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Hey fellas. How's it going? How's everyone been? And no... I'm not going to jinx this by saying anything other than I really like scones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: Really so all this had nothing to do with the way the team used and deployed him and his linemates....it was all on the player... ....right???? My sentiments exactly. Some people here have been arguing the different sides of this particular debate for years. Some people have been saying, "no. actually, he's pretty good. really." and some people just refused to accept it. Now the latter group are grasping at straws to come up with explanations as to how the guy got so good all of a sudden. What made him finally come around and wake up and start trying? Good for him! The former group just kinda has to sigh and hope no one else gets hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, King Knut said: My sentiments exactly. Some people here have been arguing the different sides of this particular debate for years. Some people have been saying, "no. actually, he's pretty good. really." and some people just refused to accept it. Now the latter group are grasping at straws to come up with explanations as to how the guy got so good all of a sudden. What made him finally come around and wake up and start trying? Good for him! The former group just kinda has to sigh and hope no one else gets hurt. I know he is just 24 and it isn't his fault he has been in the NHL and was used as a defensive specialist. In fact bravo to being able to adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJgoal Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, AJgoal said: Just hope it doesn't slow down PP2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 What a sweet spot to place the puck in, Top Shelf cutting across on a wicked pass. Coots you need to hit that stationary bike after each game/practice to work on your speed, just ask Christopher Bowie Therien after his sessions with Paul Douglas Coffey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 So happy for Couturier and the Flyers that he's found that next level! Scored his career high 15th last night... only 10 more points for career high as well. Lol, Giroux had this to say about his goal last night: Quote In joking reference to Couturier's lack of foot speed (for which he gets frequent teasing from teammates), a grinning Giroux said, "I saw Coots had a foot race. Usually he doesn’t beat the other guy.... Good shot, too." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, brelic said: So happy for Couturier and the Flyers that he's found that next level! Scored his career high 15th last night... only 10 more points for career high as well. Lol, Giroux had this to say about his goal last night: this guy will never be anything other than a defensive specialist! (in a stupid trump voice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 He should be a serious candidate for the Selke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, brelic said: He should be a serious candidate for the Selke. the haters around here would have a heart attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, murraycraven said: the haters around here would have a heart attack. Lol, there are no haters dude. No one wants players to fail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, brelic said: He should be a serious candidate for the Selke. He will 100% be in the running if he keeps up this level of play. No doubt in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, brelic said: Lol, there are no haters dude. No one wants players to fail! Oh, dont make me go back and get some old threads man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, murraycraven said: Oh, dont make me go back and get some old threads man! Haha, sure, people hate players at given moments in time. I wasn't a fan for a LONG time because he just looked like he didn't do much - skating in mud, slow reaction time offensively, weak shot. But, hey, he's found that other gear, and I love the kid and happy for him! Patrick is the new Couturier for me right now lol. But when he figures it out, and he will, all's good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podein25 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Can I just repeat what a fantastic thread title this is? Well done @LegionOfDoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 His shot was one of the nicest shots I have ever seen especially coming from him, it was a thing of beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 I'm just happy we're seeing high light reels of his goal for us as oppose of him doing that TOO us! A year after he would of been traded. "They were (s)cones!"....ya that was a hidden gem line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 On 10/30/2017 at 9:32 AM, Cheesesteak said: They Were Scones!! ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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