Who should replace Hakstol?

[ruxpin]

38 minutes ago, brelic said:

Well, this is a pretty strong public indictment of Hakstol by an actual journalist. 

 

https://www.crossingbroad.com/2017/11/time-for-a-change-what-needs-to-happen-now-after-islanders-5-flyers-4.html

 

Does ASF still write for the DST?

Well that summed it up nicely, huh? 

[ruxpin]

Just now, ruxpin said:

Well that summed it up nicely, huh? 

I hate this question when I'm the one calling for change so I can't believe I'm asking it:  so they fire the coach. For who? Who replaces?  Is there a seasoned coaching alternative that is currently unemployed?  Dineen was as good a suggestion as any, but we don't get him from Chicago mid-season. Go with an interim the rest of the year? Even accepting the argument that the young players aren't properly being developed by Hakstol, does an interim (Knoblauch?) change that? 

 

And where do you get the CLEARLY needed change of assistants from mid-season? 

 

I don't have those answers, and it's not my intention to be challenging anyone in particular. But I don't know which does more harm:  status quo the rest of the season or interim with status quo with the assistants. 

 

Not good. 

[FD19372]

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Well that summed it up nicely, huh? 

This sure does. I don't like the comment from Hakstol "Well, we've gotten points in 7 out of 10" one bit. I feel like he is insulting the fans' intellects. I would rather him be closer to the truth which is that his special teams are atrocious. Even if he would give the old Andy Reid "We've got to do a better job on special teams", it would be better than what we're hearing from Hakstol. It's like he's in complete denial mode. You're 2-3-5 in your last 10 games, pal, and looking like a corpse of a hockey team. No time for self-congratulations whatsoever.

[ruxpin]

37 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

You're 2-3-5 in your last 10 games, pal, and looking like a corpse of a hockey team

 

Exactly.  And to your point, it's not like they fought and clawed and managed to get into overtime against better teams, etc.   In at least a couple occasions (most recently NYI), they coughed up a 2 goal lead and were lucky the tie-breaker came in OT and not regulation, because it was only a matter of time.  That's not cause for a celebration.  That's cause for an autopsy.

 

The other thing, too, is that it's great they're getting a point, but their coughing up points to teams they have to pass to get anywhere.   You had a 4 point turn (2 points gained by Philly, 2 points lost by NYI) and ended up coughing up not just one but 2 points to NYI and lost a point you could have, should have had.

 

I mean good on NYI for taking advantage and all that rot, but you coughed it up.   Yes, insulting to fans' intellects is dead on accurate.  It's simply a ridiculous statement.

[ruxpin]

I've been assuming Knoblauch.   Is Scott Gordon the heir apparent?

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

I've been assuming Knoblauch.   Is Scott Gordon the heir apparent?

I hope it's neither. I really want Sutter here.

[ruxpin]

6 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I hope it's neither. I really want Sutter here.

 

I personally think Sutter is another mistake.   Don't ask me to articulate why because you won't be able to see the shrug that accompanies the "damned if I know!" response.

 

His teams obviously did well in the postseason--where it counts--but usually quite "meh" in the regular season.  They had their butts saved by a goalie that got very hot at the end of seasons.    Maybe he gets to repeat that eventually with one of the Flyers prospects, but sure shootin that ain't going to happen with Elliwerth.

[ruxpin]

Just now, ruxpin said:

 

I personally think Sutter is another mistake.   Don't ask me to articulate why because you won't be able to see the shrug that accompanies the "damned if I know!" response.

 

His teams obviously did well in the postseason--where it counts--but usually quite "meh" in the regular season.  They had their butts saved by a goalie that got very hot at the end of seasons.    Maybe he gets to repeat that eventually with one of the Flyers prospects, but sure shootin that ain't going to happen with Elliwerth.

 

@FD19372  on the other hand, I really can't argue whether that would be better or worse than Gordon or Knoblauch.   I'm not impressed with Knoblauch's special teams so far and I think I was supposed to be.   Maybe that's Hakstol.  I don't know.

 

But Gordon might be interesting only because the Sanheims, Morins, etc. seem to grow a lot better in Lehigh under Gordon and then regress under Professor Dave.

[FD19372]

1 minute ago, ruxpin said:

 

@FD19372  on the other hand, I really can't argue whether that would be better or worse than Gordon or Knoblauch.   I'm not impressed with Knoblauch's special teams so far and I think I was supposed to be.   Maybe that's Hakstol.  I don't know.

 

But Gordon might be interesting only because the Sanheims, Morins, etc. seem to grow a lot better in Lehigh under Gordon and then regress under Professor Dave.

I know...but John Stevens did a good job with the Phantoms, and we know what happened when he became the Flyers head coach.

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I know...but John Stevens did a good job with the Phantoms, and we know what happened when he became the Flyers head coach.

 

Yeah, that really is a fair point.  I do think some pretty good coaches come up that way (gotta start somewhere, right?), but frankly I don't know enough about Gordon to insist one way or the other.  That seems to be who national media is talking about, so we'll probably end up with some plumber from Ohio.

[FD19372]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

 

Yeah, that really is a fair point.  I do think some pretty good coaches come up that way (gotta start somewhere, right?), but frankly I don't know enough about Gordon to insist one way or the other.  That seems to be who national media is talking about, so we'll probably end up with some plumber from Ohio.

You mean this guy? Hey, he already has his own fan club. Maybe, just maybe, no one will notice or care if we put him behind the bench, as opposed to the coaches we've had since Lavy.

[ruxpin]

8 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

as opposed to the coaches we've had since Lavy.

 

That was the mistake right there.  Not for Lavy.  He's obviously done well for himself and had dog **** to work with in Philly, but that was the last good coach we had.

 

Hitch was good for a spell, but he has a shelf life.  I know part of this is my age, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to list Flyers coaches since even mid-90s without the help of google.  It's ridiculous.

[Lindbergh31]

On 2017-11-25 at 12:38 PM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I blame this on ownership. Hextall was given the unenviable task of rebuilding on the fly while staying competitive and dealing with a bloated payroll and no pipeline of prospects. If the ownership would have given him the rubber stamp to blow it up, I think the team is much different and better than what it is. I also don't think we even see Hakstol behind the bench. Now that pipeline is full and ready to burst through, its time for party two if the rebuild to commence and that's finding a coach who will maximize this talent that's available. 

 

I wanted to like Hakstol, but he lost me when he had the chance to replace Murphy and Laperriere and he decided to keep them because he wanted 'continuity'. You don't keep guys because of continuity, you keep guys that give you the best chance to win and implement your game plan. Hakstol chose to play it safe, a recurring theme behind his coaching style - play it safe and risk taking is minimal. The problem is that guys are stagnating in his system and he refuses to change his system to fit the personnel here. For me, that's the sign of a coach in over his head. That's why Hakstol has to go.

Well said, if Flyers ownership would have allowed Hextall to blow it up like the Leafs management done, then Hexie and the Flyers would have been better off. I wonder if Hextall thought Hakstol might catch lightning in the bottle with Hakstol jumping to the NHL from university to be a head coach like Mike Keenan. But he's in way over his head and things haven't panned out for him. The question is how long is Hextall going to let him go before showing him the door.

[murraycraven]

Question!   How do I get in the chat from my mobile phone?    I am traveling for work but a watching this crap in Chicago on a lay over.... 

[Mad Dog]

There is a very good chance that they won't EVER win again with this coach.  I really feel like they just don't want to play for this coach anymore.  I am not sure why.  Maybe they don't believe in his system, if there is one.  Maybe they just don't respect him.  I am sure much will come out after he is gone.  And I really don't know who they replace him with.  But one thing is painfully clear: if they still have *any* hope salvaging this season, they need to fire this man as soon as possible.  And it may not really be a reflection of his poor coaching.  But this team cannot function with this coach.  That much is quite clear.

 

[murraycraven]

8 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

There is a very good chance that they won't EVER win again with this coach.  I really feel like they just don't want to play for this coach anymore.  I am not sure why.  Maybe they don't believe in his system, if there is one.  Maybe they just don't respect him.  I am sure much will come out after he is gone.  And I really don't know who they replace him with.  But one thing is painfully clear: if they still have *any* hope salvaging this system, they need to fire this man as soon as possible.  And it may not really be a reflection of his poor coaching.  But this team cannot function with this coach.  That much is quite clear.

 

 

Pretty much appears that way.... 

[Samifan]

At this point they may as well just put this guy behind the bench. He’ll show just as much fire, emotion and passion as Hak

[OccamsRazor]

I do not what Gordon from the Phantoms that is for sure.

 

His .405 win % in 3 year with the Isles tell me HELL NO!!!

 

Find someone else with some NHL coaching or at least assistant coaching experience.

 

I think i would rather them fire him during the season and let Knoblauch take the reins the rest of the season. 

[OccamsRazor]

I think i go with Mike Stothers as Hak's replacement.

 

Tell him to bring David Bell with him if he wants and keep who ever he wants from the current staff or name his own.

 

Yeah that is my guy.

 

Edit: Yeah i know another former Flyer. But it's more than that.

 

[murraycraven]

Sorry, but Hextall came across as a total douche after the game...    

[hf101]

2 hours ago, murraycraven said:

Question!   How do I get in the chat from my mobile phone?    I am traveling for work but a watching this crap in Chicago on a lay over.... 

 

too late for this game.  but download the app Discord.

then this is the chat room link invite   https://discord.gg/qzH4mF

[FD19372]

They should the Flyers Post Game Show to CSI: Philadelphia.

[caluso]

Sadly, I agree with those arguing that the problem is Hak. Cause a large part of the problem is. The team has no cohesiveness, and is an undisciplined turnover machine. I have been watching or playing hockey for a long time and I have never, ever seen so many moronic turnovers. When is he going to start holding Voracek, Ghost, Giroux, Laughton, Sanheim responsible for bonehead play after bonehead play. When is he going to tell them to take a seat, not after the game, but during it. When? Also, who has gotten better under his tutelage? It is obvious to everyone here that Konecny, Patrick, Sanheim - heck, even Provorov - need coaching, someone to help them grow and see the game better. Hakstol has proven not to be that guy. Lastly, just look at Deboer's San Jose Sharks: they just put on a clinic how to protect a lead...and that's coaching. How many two goal leads has Hakstol's team blown. The team has no idea how to protect a lead. That's coaching.

 

But an even more serious problem, handicapping this franchise, is the ability to judge talent . I wholeheartedly agree with the philosophy that you build through the draft. But having draft picks and maximizing those selections are entirely different things. Look at the Ceveland Browns, a team that has had the benefit of innumerable high draft choices and yet they still suck. Is that the Flyers future? I admit that the jury is still out on many picks but only Hart and Frost seem to be living up to the hype. Many prospects have either been hurt or are underperforming. Again, I admit that the jury is still out on guys like Patrick, Konecny, Sanheim, Morin, Rubstov, Allison, Marody, and Lindblom but if the plethora of picks that Hextall is acquiring don't pan out, the team will simply be spinning its wheels. 

[OccamsRazor]

Who knew then looking back almost a year ago the worst thing that could have happened to this club would have been the 10 game winning streak they went on.

 

All it did to many of us i'm included in this is provide some false hope for us all thinking they were actually better than they were.

 

Making us thinking afterwards was that the only thing wrong with this club was Hak's mishandling of his goalies.

 

Not playing Stolie more than he should of have. Especially when we knew Mason wasn't right after injuring his hand.

 

Too bad it couldn't be as simple as that.

 

No it's worse it's much deeper and the reality is this is not a good team.

 

Yes they have some good pieces to build around and have many more coming.

 

But the truth is there are were they are in the standings because it's what they have earned.

 

Winning and respect in this league is not easy. None of it is given. It's earned.

 

So right here right now i'm changing my stance on these players.

 

Yeah let's finish the rebuild.

 

Let's go ahead now and trade Simmer, Fillppula and anyone else they can for picks or younger pieces who are close to be ready.

 

No need to wait. It will also give them time to get over the shock from moving some of these guys.

 

Also i would move Jake if i could i am done with him. Sure due to his price tag it won't be easy but yeah do it!

 

Sorry for the long post.

[elmatus]

29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Also i would move Jake if i could i am done with him. Sure due to his price tag it won't be easy but yeah do it!

 

 

I've noticed folks mention this line of reasoning before. I honestly don't think it's as much of an issue as others seem to. I am firmly on the trade Voracek wagon personally, but it's very hard to argue with his production. I expect Hexy could move him without having to retain much if anything. There's always a Homer out there somewhere.

 

That said, I would honestly be shocked if he were moved at all. Hex has shown time and again how consistently conservative he is. Bold moves do not appear to be his thing at all, and moving your top scorer would be bold.

 

The most unfortunate comparison I can give is probably Bergevin in MTL. He's also very conservative regarding his roster and acquisitions, and it has led to nothing but stagnant middling play for the Habs in his tenure. This despite having arguably the best goalie of the last decade backstopping his team over that span. 

 

I'm not looking to sound the alarm on anything with this post, but I really really hope Hexy doesn't end up being Bergevin 2.0.