flyercanuck Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 OHL Player of the Month – Morgan Frost (Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds): Philadelphia Flyers prospect Morgan Frost of the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds is the OHL Player of the Month for December after leading the league with 20 points including eight goals, 12 assists and a plus/minus rating of plus-18 over 10 games. The third-year centreman continued a 14-game point streak through the end of the month, registering multi-point outputs in eight of the 10 games he played. Frost earned first star honours twice this past month, scoring twice on Dec. 13th against Flint before registering four points (2-2–4) on Dec. 16th in Guelph. His most recent performance featured a goal and an assist against the Guelph Storm on Dec. 30th as the Greyhounds pushed their current winning streak to 23 games. An 18-year-old native of Aurora, Ont., Frost leads the OHL in scoring with 60 points (21-39–60) over 36 games while also leading all players with a plus-46 plus/minus rating. He has recorded at least one point in 20 games of the Greyhounds’ current 23-game winning streak that dates back to Oct. 28th. The. 6-foot, 180Ib. centreman represented Team OHL in the 2017 CIBC Canada-Russia Series earlier this season after being chosen in the first round of the 2017 NHL Draft by the Philadelphia Flyers last summer. Frost was Sault Ste. Marie’s fourth round pick in the 2015 OHL Priority Selection from the Barrie Colts Minor Midgets. http://soogreyhounds.com/article/frost-sandin-villalta-named-ohl-top-performers-for-december Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 hours ago, icehole said: You bring up Columbus. I like what they're doing. They seem to have a good combination of drafting well, picking up important FAs, making good trades, and hiring a coach that can get his players to play well, as well as working the refs. Can we have that as our GM? Can we hold Hextall to that standard instead of always comparing him to a guy that was a GM years ago? Columbus skittered around playing .500 hockey for a long time. It is only recently that they've had the core group to add the vets to via trade. The reason they're able to trade for players to upgrade their NHL team is they have a deep prospect pool filled with assets. Columbus is about 5 years ahead of the Flyers in terms of building their team I was hoping the Flyers would be better this year. It seems to me they should be, there are spurts where they've played extremely well. Truly I think the Flyers in the years to come will be making moves very similar to those being made by Columbus right now, Columbus does have a head start though. There isn't enough quality depth in the Flyers system to augment this core group yet. It takes time, Hextall had to start literally from zero with the minor league team. There will come a time when the guys he's chosen aren't killing it and he makes a stupid trade or extends Dale Weise when I will join you in the chorus of hate, but for now I want to see how this plays out. I think this group of prospects, may be very very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icehole Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Columbus skittered around playing .500 hockey for a long time. It is only recently that they've had the core group to add the vets to via trade. The reason they're able to trade for players to upgrade their NHL team is they have a deep prospect pool filled with assets. Columbus is about 5 years ahead of the Flyers in terms of building their team I was hoping the Flyers would be better this year. It seems to me they should be, there are spurts where they've played extremely well. Truly I think the Flyers in the years to come will be making moves very similar to those being made by Columbus right now, Columbus does have a head start though. There isn't enough quality depth in the Flyers system to augment this core group yet. It takes time, Hextall had to start literally from zero with the minor league team. There will come a time when the guys he's chosen aren't killing it and he makes a stupid trade or extends Dale Weise when I will join you in the chorus of hate, but for now I want to see how this plays out. I think this group of prospects, may be very very good. Good points. I'll make a deal with everyone. I won't criticize everything Hextall does if everyone stops loving everything he does. Since we don't know what any of his "moves" will do (except for his stellar FA/trades), we can't say if they're good or bad right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, icehole said: Good points. I'll make a deal with everyone. I won't criticize everything Hextall does if everyone stops loving everything he does. Since we don't know what any of his "moves" will do (except for his stellar FA/trades), we can't say if they're good or bad right? believe me, I am super critical of Hextall and not sold on his trying to win now while rebuilding at the same time. I am not a "homer" when it comes to Hextall - he seems to have drafted well and it looks like we have some very good young players but I also think there is a lot to be desired about his tenure so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, icehole said: Good points. I'll make a deal with everyone. I won't criticize everything Hextall does if everyone stops loving everything he does. Since we don't know what any of his "moves" will do (except for his stellar FA/trades), we can't say if they're good or bad right? I don't think there's many people on here who love everything Hextall does. i like that for the first time in....EVER... the Flyers are trying to build through the draft. He has patience and he realizes the value of draft picks...the more you have the better chance of hitting on them. It just doesn't happen over night...and many Flyer fans have grown up in the "must win now" mentality that just doesn't work in a capped league. His contract to Voracek...after one great season, was dumb. His signings of guys like Weisse and Bellemare didn't do much for me. He also signed Couturier and Ghost to pretty good contracts...as much as you hate to admit it. None of us will know how good of a gm Hextall is until years from now when all these draft picks he's hoarded come of age...whether as stars/regulars or busts. By none, that includes you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, icehole said: Good points. I'll make a deal with everyone. I won't criticize everything Hextall does if everyone stops loving everything he does. Since we don't know what any of his "moves" will do (except for his stellar FA/trades), we can't say if they're good or bad right? I don't love a lot of the FA signings. I also understand if you ice a team with 60% new guys you more often than not end up with the Oil as the result. The OIl despite McJesus are still just okay. Hextall hasn't found all the right guys in free agency. But I'm still good with the Schenn trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I know it's just one example, but can someone explain to me how Shero was able to turn around the Devils so quickly and yet here we are looking forward to years down the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyClarkeFan16 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 51 minutes ago, vis said: I know it's just one example, but can someone explain to me how Shero was able to turn around the Devils so quickly and yet here we are looking forward to years down the road? It's simple - Shero was allowed to tear down and rebuild properly. When he got to Jersey, they were rock bottom. As for Hextall, he was never given the option of performing a full on tear down and rebuild. He was basically told keep the team competitive while rebuilding. Not only that, Jersey wasn't saddled with the number of no movement/no trade clauses that Hextall had to deal with plus they were nowhere near the cap that Hextall had when he inherited the club. In fairness, Hextall has done a magnificent job restocking the pipeline while not being able to perform a proper rebuild. He was saddled with burdensome contracts and a salary cap mess and he's gotten rid of most of the bad contracts and has rebuilt the pipeline into one of the best systems in the NHL. Now if only he could get the coaching right...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, vis said: I know it's just one example, but can someone explain to me how Shero was able to turn around the Devils so quickly and yet here we are looking forward to years down the road? because this isn't baking a cake, constructing a building, or a math problem. progress is not linear or predictable, and solutions aren't actually solutions, they are possibilities that may or may not work out. and so, there is no "way" to do this, no "how" that produces guaranteed or even likely results. it is an organic system filled with random organic-ness. there are winners and losers, but the differences are far more chance than they are systemic. remember when detroit and ken holland were considered masters of the draft, and a shining example of what a wise GM could do with quality junior and european scouts? holland is still GM in detroit. and, uh, they aren't doing so well. do we still think his draft success 15 years ago was due to genius, or maybe it was just luck? if the former, wtf is happening now? two guys sit down at a blackjack table, each with $100. they make the same bets and use the same logic with their hit/stay choices. one ends up broke and the other walks away with $2k. "why" isn't really a valid question, it's just how it worked out. the broke dude doesn't have anything to learn from the other, and the other has only the results to be proud of, he didn't *do* anything other than receive the better cards. this is doubly true in today's capped league where known quantities that could reduce the random are hard to add. and it's triply true with the flyers, who have sworn off adding known quantities entirely (and are, in fact, removing them). it all comes down to the cards you're dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: As for Hextall, he was never given the option of performing a full on tear down and rebuild. He was basically told keep the team competitive while rebuilding. Not only that, Jersey wasn't saddled with the number of no movement/no trade clauses that Hextall had to deal with plus they were nowhere near the cap that Hextall had when he inherited the club. I don't know if I buy that Hextall didn't have the option of performing a full on tear down and rebuild. However, assuming you are right, that is a fair statement. Regarding the cap, the Devils are a budget team. They do not spend to the cap. So, Shero has less room to work with than Hextall. However, a few things thing set Shero apart from Hextall. First, Shero has used trades to rebuild his roster. He got Kyle Palmieri for picks. Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. Marcus Johansson for picks. Vatanen for Henrique and Blandisi. He hasn't given up a single first rounder, except to move up one spot. Nearly every trade Hextall has made has been for picks or cap space. Aside from the Gudas trade, he hasn't made a trade with view to significantly improving the roster in the near- and long-term. Also, let's not forget the Hartnell/Umberger trade. Good times. Second, Shero has been better in UFA, though neither he nor Hextall have done much. Shero signed Brian Boyle, which was a low-key, but good signing this past summer. His college FA signing - Will Butcher - earned a spot and is playing well. Meanwhile, Hextall signed Dale Weise and Boyd Gordon. Also, Voracek's contract was a big mistake. Finally, look at Shero's coaching choice. John Hynes had a pretty good track record in the AHL. Hell, at least he had professional coaching experience. Both he and Shero shifted to a fast, attacking style team and Hynes has them playing that style well in his third year behind the bench. Meanwhile, the Flyers hired a college head coach with no professional coaching experience and are still trying to find an identity. I don't see a lot of progress in the on-ice execution in the three years Hakstol has been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 @aziz Strongly disagree that the difference between success and failure is chance and luck. And the blackjack analogy is not at all applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Also lets not forget about the goalie situation this team is dealing with. I am sure the players in front are not to confident with who is in between the pipes. If the forwards and dmen are not confident in there goalie the style & quality of play dips dramatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 On 1/3/2018 at 6:50 AM, BobbyClarkeFan16 said: I still think Goulbourne had some upside to him and can be a very valuablefourth line player. He's a terrific skater and he was I've if the best penalty killers in the WHL when he played in Kelowna. When they (Scott Gordon) let him play, he can really play. It's when they want him to fight that they waste him. Yes it's a kick in the rocks they passed on Bjorkstrand and I fault previous administration for that. However, there's just something about Goulbourne that I really like and want to seer him succeed. Maybe it's the fact he isn't the biggest guy on the ice, but he plays hard and doesn't use size an excuse to not check or go into the corners. I have always had a soft spot for Ghouls....totally agree, for a tough guy 4th line grinder, he CAN skate quite well. This team is missing bottom six thumpers. I grew to dislike Carcillo, but he could lay the body. Flyers do not make opponents pay enough....dump the puck in and smoke the opposing dmen, wear them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aziz Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 11 hours ago, vis said: @aziz Strongly disagree that the difference between success and failure is chance and luck. And the blackjack analogy is not at all applicable. ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 8 hours ago, Philly29 said: Also lets not forget about the goalie situation this team is dealing with. I am sure the players in front are not to confident with who is in between the pipes. If the forwards and dmen are not confident in there goalie the style & quality of play dips dramatically. That's fair, and certainly part of the success, but I see Shero's ability to make trades for the present (and future) and Hynes implementing his system and getting execution (which having Schneider does help) as being bigger factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 hours ago, vis said: First, Shero has used trades to rebuild his roster. Yes some good trades....and i'm not an Ronnie apologist but to me this is what sets them apart. Hextall and his staff have done outstanding with their drafting and kids coming in. However he has not done good with guys already in the NHL and his trades. In fact you could say he sucks at it. I mean he has done some ok deals but man he has got some **** back in return. I mean to bring in Mcdud RJ and VLC to begin with is turrible. Then to sign Weise and have to take Lehtera back damn...ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 4 hours ago, jammer2 said: I have always had a soft spot for Ghouls....totally agree, for a tough guy 4th line grinder, he CAN skate quite well. Man i hope so because man you just don't take those types in the 3rd round when you have damn good talent on the board and a glaring hole at LW in the system....so for Ron's sake this kid better be able to come in and light this group on fire!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Mcdud RJ and VLC He didn't..... He bought in RJ to get rid of Hartnell contract. Homer signed Mcdud and VLC dude. I can't believe you said he has gotten **** back in return. All the draft picks he has acquired from trading players that were a waste or past their prime have been unreal. Remember the Timo, Coburn deals etc... The trades he has made is the reason why our prospect pool is stacked, I think you are tad bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, Philly29 said: Homer signed Mcdud and VLC dude. He was part of the decision to bring them in....if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Yes some good trades....and i'm not an Ronnie apologist but to me this is what sets them apart. Hextall and his staff have done outstanding with their drafting and kids coming in. However he has not done good with guys already in the NHL and his trades. In fact you could say he sucks at it. I mean he has done some ok deals but man he has got some **** back in return. I mean to bring in Mcdud RJ and VLC to begin with is turrible. Then to sign Weise and have to take Lehtera back damn...ugly. Yeah, his track record with NHL talent has been bad. Cannot complain about the drafting (on paper). Hopefully more of these kids turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, vis said: Cannot complain about the drafting (on paper). Hopefully more of these kids turn out They have to if they have to rely on him rebuilding through trades they are f**ked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 On 1/3/2018 at 10:43 AM, mojo1917 said: Columbus skittered around playing .500 hockey for a long time. It is only recently that they've had the core group to add the vets to via trade. The reason they're able to trade for players to upgrade their NHL team is they have a deep prospect pool filled with assets. Columbus is about 5 years ahead of the Flyers in terms of building their team I was hoping the Flyers would be better this year. It seems to me they should be, there are spurts where they've played extremely well. Truly I think the Flyers in the years to come will be making moves very similar to those being made by Columbus right now, Columbus does have a head start though. There isn't enough quality depth in the Flyers system to augment this core group yet. It takes time, Hextall had to start literally from zero with the minor league team. There will come a time when the guys he's chosen aren't killing it and he makes a stupid trade or extends Dale Weise when I will join you in the chorus of hate, but for now I want to see how this plays out. I think this group of prospects, may be very very good. I'm with you on hextall. He started from zero in the minors but started from like negative 50 in the pros. He was so screwed with the flyers and their roster it was amazing. Weise wasmt a bad signing. The Weise we're getting is NOT nearly the player he showed in MNTL. It was a bust, but not a trrrible idea for the money. The player he was was worth that deal. The fact that the player he is now isn't is a different matter. I think what hextall's doing is mostly the right call. Even Hakstol wasn't a bad idea. Maybe this time will make Provo, Ghost, Sanheim, Konecny, Hagg and Patrick better all around players for the next coach... But it does appear that if they want the team to be competitive and win games, Hakstol needs to go and hextall needs to be willing to pull that trigger. I do believe that with a more seasoned NHL coach, this team would be firmly in playoff positioning now. Maybe still wild card, but not on the outside looking in. They really should be better than their record right now. I really do do blame that on Hakstol and Hextall favoring development over winning. Will we all be happy they did in the next few years? I can't say. I honestly think they could be winning now and developing at the same time. Rifht now the core has been part of a losing culture for too long. G is the only one who's ever been on a playoff run!!! The rest have basically spent their careers on bad teams. I don't count Lehtera or Weise because they don't matter and their "better" teams never got far either. This team is WAY too okay with losing. It's in their heads. The world won't end if hey lose. Thats a a recipe for losing way more than you should. They're so used to consoling themselves it's second nature and I think they do it before they even give up that backbreaking goal or breakaway. I like the players, but there is simply not enough fire and too much quit in the core of this team. I think you so trade Simmer or Jake at the deadline. As as far as the coach goes, I think both he and the GM have made it clear that they are not yet in "time to win" mode. Which is effing sad To me because I think they're good enough to be in the playoffs now. They're not out of the playoffs because of rookie mistakes and inexperience. They're out because of how they cope and react to those mistakes and the effects that inexperience has on their approach. That's coaching. And this coach doesn't seem to be worried about it and I have a problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: They have to if they have to rely on him rebuilding through trades they are f**ked! This team rebuilt through trades for 25 years because it worked once in 1994... even though they spent the next 10 years losing to teams that rebuilt through drafting and development. That's got to be over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, King Knut said: This team rebuilt through trades for 25 years because it worked once in 1994... even though they spent the next 10 years losing to teams that rebuilt through drafting and development. That's got to be over. We'll see if this way works. I've never been apart of doing it this way. Guess we'll see in a few years. This hardest part to swallow is most including me just expected them to be more competitive along the way. Is that fair? Can't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philly29 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 9 hours ago, OccamsRazor said: He was part of the decision to bring them in....if you don't think so you're lying to yourself. How do you know did you sit in on the meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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