Hakstol article

[brelic]

Found this article about Hakstol from his college town paper. 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4402603-dave-hakstol-brings-second-half-surge-nhl

Quote

 

Thought this was interesting... 

 

In Hakstol's first year as head coach in college, UND started the season 16-13-3. Then, it went 9-1-2 down the stretch en route to the NCAA national championship game. The trend continued throughout the years.

 

In 2005-06, UND started 18-13-1, then went 11-2 en route to the Frozen Four.

 

In 2006-07, UND started 9-11-1, then went 15-2-4 en route to the Frozen Four.

 

In 2007-08, UND started 9-8-1, then went 19-2-3 en route to the Frozen Four.

 

In 2008-09, UND started 9-10-1, then went 15-2-3 down the stretch.

 

In 2009-10, UND started 13-11-5, then went 12-1 en route to the NCAA tournament.

 

In 2010-11, UND had a strong 18-8-2 start, but still caught fire and went 14-0-1 en route to the Frozen Four.

 

In 2011-12, UND started 12-10-2. Despite being so inundated with injuries that it couldn't fill out a full lineup, it went 14-2-1 down the stretch and won a third-straight Broadmoor Trophy as Western Collegiate Hockey Association playoff champs.

 

In 2012-13, UND started 13-8-6, then had a modest improvement of 9-4-1 down the stretch.

 

And in 2013-14, UND started 4-7-2 before running off a 21-6-1 mark en route to the Frozen Four.

 

It was a remarkably consistent trait of Hakstol's teams. They always got better as the season progressed.

 

That's one of the reasons why general manager Ron Hextall hired Hakstol as the head coach three years ago. He saw firsthand how Hakstol developed players and teams when Hextall's son, Brett, played at UND. Ron wanted to bring the same culture to the Flyers organization, which was in the middle of a rebuild.

 

This year's Flyers are now following the same pattern that fans in Grand Forks saw year after year. Philadelphia started the season 8-11-7. Since then, they are 20-8-2.

 

 

So there's clearly a trend. The question is why? Why do they always start slow and then skyrocket? Is it because of the roster churn (I imagine there's quite a bit each year at the college level)?  You'd think a low-churn roster wouldn't consistently succumb to slow starts...

 

Anyway, he's got the team playing some elite level hockey, and most importantly, he has them believing in each other. That's the biggest takeaway I see for this team.

 

 

[Podein25]

2 minutes ago, brelic said:

Found this article about Hakstol from his college town paper. 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4402603-dave-hakstol-brings-second-half-surge-nhl

 

So there's clearly a trend. The question is why? Why do they always start slow and then skyrocket? Is it because of the roster churn (I imagine there's quite a bit each year at the college level)?  You'd think a low-churn roster wouldn't consistently succumb to slow starts...

 

Anyway, he's got the team playing some elite level hockey, and most importantly, he has them believing in each other. That's the biggest takeaway I see for this team.

 

 

 

Fantastic find @brelic !

 

I'm not normally one to talk "systems" [I subscribe to Babcock's philosophy of "getting the puck and keeping it"], but it suggests that he has a certain way ("complicated system"?) he wants his team to play and it takes them awhile to really get it. 

 

Or, it's a statistical blip, albeit a weird one. 

[OccamsRazor]

12 minutes ago, brelic said:

Is it because of the roster churn (I imagine there's quite a bit each year at the college level)?

 

 

Without digging deeper i would think this has a lot to do with it.

 

Combined with the complexity of his system (as we see at times with the Flyers) activating the Dmen to support and pinch i would think is not easy to do without chemistry and guys working as a unit.

 

However is just an educated uneducated guess.

 

[brelic]

12 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Fantastic find @brelic !

 

I'm not normally one to talk "systems" [I subscribe to Babcock's philosophy of "getting the puck and keeping it"], but it suggests that he has a certain way ("complicated system"?) he wants his team to play and it takes them awhile to really get it. 

 

Or, it's a statistical blip, albeit a weird one. 

 

Kinda reminds me of Olympic training programs. They are designed for athletes to peak during the Olympic year.

 

Fun fact - If Hakstol makes it to the end of next season, he'll be the 4th longest-tenured coach in Flyers history, 7 games behind 3rd (Laviolette).

 

Only Shero, Keenan, and Laviolette have coached more games. 

 

Crazy! That shows you how much this franchise just burns through coaches.

 

The average number of games coached for Flyers coaches is 194 - just under 2.5 seasons.

[Podein25]

12 minutes ago, brelic said:

he's got the team playing some elite level hockey, and most importantly, he has them believing in each other. That's the biggest takeaway I see for this team.

 

Just a bit further on this point, I really like the way they are playing. It's up-tempo with great puck support all over the ice, generating quality chances, including especially from the D (IIRC the Flyers lead the league in goals by D-men - is that correct?).

 

[brelic]

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

 

Just a bit further on this point, I really like the way they are playing. It's up-tempo with great puck support all over the ice, generating quality chances, including especially from the D (IIRC the Flyers lead the league in goals by D-men - is that correct?).

 

 

Absolutely! And I think for all the sloppiness we see now, that gets better over time as the team grows together, players grow individually, and Hakstol keeps tweaking his system.

 

Hmm, I remember the other night, they showed the Flyers as #2 in the league in terms of points from defensemen... but maybe it was goals?

 

 

[Podein25]

4 minutes ago, brelic said:

I remember the other night, they showed the Flyers as #2 in the league in terms of points from defensemen... but maybe it was goals?

 

Yeah it was on the MTL broadcast, it was one of those things, a surprising stat for sure. If our PK wasn't so bad, we'd prolly have 85 pts. 

[OccamsRazor]

10 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

It's up-tempo with great puck support all over the ice, generating quality chances, including especially from the D (IIRC the Flyers lead the league in goals by D-men - is that correct?).

 

Yep and with this up tempo mistakes happen, they are human and still young (youngest team in the NHL right now with Elliott and Neuvy out the lineup).

 

And they are getting great goaltending to help erase their mistakes because they are still making them...it's just they are not ending up in the back of the net.

 

And that isn't saying they didn't get good goaltending before Mrazek...the biggest issue is it wasn't consistent and quite at the level it is now.

 

Now can Mrazek maintain as the quality of teams they play goes up?? Guess we'll see.

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

Yep and with this up tempo mistakes happen, they are human and still young (youngest team in the NHL right now with Elliott and Neuvy out the lineup).

 

Yup. At least it's enjoyable to watch, mistakes and all. 

 

(the addition of Oduya apparently makes us a little older - MTL may be younger - I guess it depends on whether or not you count injured players in that)

[OccamsRazor]

3 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

At least it's enjoyable to watch, mistakes and all. 

 

Yes and confidence goes a long way...it has to go along way to know as they try to push the puck up ice if they fail it won't cost them every time.

[Podein25]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes and confidence goes a long way...it has to go along way to know as they try to push the puck up ice if they fail it won't cost them every time.

 

Yeah, which takes you back to goaltending...

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

Yeah, which takes you back to goaltending...

 

Man look at his numbers...

 

Mrazek is 3-0-0 with a .947 save percentage (72 saves on 76 shots) and 1.30 gaa

 

...impressive! Keep it up!

[Howie58]

Well, so far so good with Mrazek.  I said it last week; will say it again:  How can they keep Neuvy on the roster next year?  He is too inconsistent and injury-prone?  That is one man's opinion.

 

 

[Podein25]

4 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

That is one man's opinion.

 

Ya think? I'd say it's more in the category of incontrovertible fact!

[Howie58]

1 minute ago, Podein25 said:

Ya think? I'd say it's more in the category of incontrovertible fact!

LOL!  I wasn't aiming for false modesty.  Good to hear from you...it is a good time to be a Flyers fan.

 

Seriously, it's sad what's happened to the guy.  But at this juncture, he is probably holding up the development of a good youngster, and Hextall has made it clear that's unacceptable.  I would rather see if Lyon/Stolarz/Whoever gets tested and developed.  But that also raises a question about Elliott...but I guess Elliott could be platooned.  We shall see.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

34 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Well, so far so good with Mrazek.  I said it last week; will say it again:  How can they keep Neuvy on the roster next year?  He is too inconsistent and injury-prone?  That is one man's opinion.

 

 

 

 

I don't think you'll ever see Neuvy in a Flyer uni again. He will be moved for whatever they can get at the draft i think.

 

Just an example not saying they will but the Blues Carter Hutton is a UFA could the Blues (for example only) swing a minor trade for Neuvy at a reasonable one year cap hit of 2.5??

 

Yeah maybe even the Flyers could pick up half to get the trade to take place.

 

Sure i know teams will be apprehensive with his history but as a backup he can come in and play well as we seen...just not for long.

 

 

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, brelic said:

Found this article about Hakstol from his college town paper. 

https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4402603-dave-hakstol-brings-second-half-surge-nhl

 

So there's clearly a trend. The question is why? Why do they always start slow and then skyrocket? Is it because of the roster churn (I imagine there's quite a bit each year at the college level)?  You'd think a low-churn roster wouldn't consistently succumb to slow starts...

 

Anyway, he's got the team playing some elite level hockey, and most importantly, he has them believing in each other. That's the biggest takeaway I see for this team.

 

 

 

Very interesting article for sure. You're right in that yearly roster shuffles likely plays a part at the college level. Here, well he has had some shuffling from year to year, but it's been largely consistent since he started.

 

Off season conditioning? I'm really not the guy to ask about hockey system details, but I do believe they are extremely important to a team -- far more so than we generally realize. Is it possible Hakstol's system is such that it takes a lot of time to really understand? Maybe it's a sort of high risk one that leads to a lot of early season errors. I think of the dman thing in particular. I can see that type of play leading to errors a lot easier than some sort of boring trap.

 

That said, the team has been one of the best all year in shot suppression. We're currently fourth best at shots against per game, and we've been in the top five pretty much all season. That brings me back to an earlier convo we had around here about shotty goaltending. I know some people seem to not think Elliott is that bad, but it's hard to have any faith in him when you look at his stats vs the team's stats. The short of it is this year's roster has been very good defensively, yet our goalies have been among the worst at preventing goals against. In fact, I haven't crunched the numbers accordingly, but I would not be shocked at all if Elliott in particular was dead last in a GA vs SA comparison this year. It's that bad.

 

Could part of the early season slide have to do with goaltending then? Hak has never had a truly solid NHL starter to work with imo. Mason was likely the best of the bunch, and he really wasn't a top option by any measure.

 

Other than that... the young kids are certainly a possible thing. This year in particular has seen the rise of TK, Patrick, and Hagg. All three of whom have been playing very important roles during their time. That is a likely factor.

 

As with most things, I suspect it's a combination of various elements. Still very interesting to think about when looking at those types of trends.

[Digityman]

 

4 minutes ago, elmatus said:

That brings me back to an earlier convo we had around here about shotty goaltending. I know some people seem to not think Elliott is that bad, but it's hard to have any faith in him when you look at his stats vs the team's stats.

 

This.  This is a great point and one I agree with wholeheartedly.  

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, Digityman said:

 

 

This.  This is a great point and one I agree with wholeheartedly.  

 

I do too....been saying it all season. Elliott has always been all over the place and his play this year has been no different.

 

It would piss me off to see him make an outstanding save only to turn around and let some weak ass routine one in.

 

Hard for the team to truly have confidence in him keeping them in a game. Sure i know with a mic in their face they would say it but to a man no way they felt that way.

[elmatus]

6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I do too....been saying it all season. Elliott has always been all over the place and his play this year has been no different.

 

It would piss me off to see him make an outstanding save only to turn around and let some weak ass routine one in.

 

Hard for the team to truly have confidence in him keeping them in a game. Sure i know with a mic in their face they would say it but to a man no way they felt that way.

 

Which really makes me wonder what this group is capable of if Mrazek turns out to be a good to great starter. To say the least, his addition to the team has made a lot of things possible that just weren't at all prior to him coming over.

 

To return to the earlier convo in this thread, I'm hard pressed to find a reason why Neuvy would be on the team next year. Maybe if Mrazek spends the rest of the season and playoffs(!) in the tank and turns out to be a worse dud than Elliott and Neuvy have been (they have). Then maybe salary expectations become a thing. 

 

Honestly though, my gut tells me we're looking at a Mrazek/Elliott tandem next year. 

[brelic]

Another thing to consider is that this team gives up a lot of high quality chances because of its high risk play. Our PP is top third, but we also have the most shorties against. It happens even strength too where our players gamble and when it doesn't work, there's a high quality odd man rush coming our way.

 

I don't want them to change their style, because I think we have the talent to pull it off. It will just take some maturing together and individually to limit those high danger chances the other way. Learning to pick spots a bit better and having more confidence with the puck. 

 

Oh, and a better bottom 4 defense, which I think gets solved (partially) next year by having Sanheim and likely Morin back there. They will definitely have growing pains, but will quickly surpass the dreck we have now.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

I still don't like Hakstol as a head coach and nothing will change my mind about that. Considering the fact that he's been the one who has been hesitant on working in guys like Morin and Sanheim into the lineup so that we don't have to see scrubs like MacDonald or Manning is one thing I despise about the guy. Honestly, I could care less about the playoffs. He's supposed to be working those guys in and when they make a mistake, he either benches them or gets them banished. Watch how many gaffes MacTurd and Mancrap make and it's disgusting how they're continually gifted a spot in the lineup.

 

Or how about how he chooses to keep guys like Lehtera, Filppula in the lineup when we've got two great young guys in Vecchione and NAK sitting in Lehigh Valley who are ready. Look at how he defends his usage of Lehtera and Filppula as Lehtera brings a 'heavy' game to the ice (it's too bad it's Lehtera's fat ass and lead feet that are the only things that are heavy about his game) and Filppula is a veteran leader who plays a solid two-way (I've seen more solids left in my toilet bowl than Filppula's game). 

 

Let's also talk about how he kept all his top guys on one line for half the season before finally caving in and separating the top line to generate scoring. Or how about his decision to continually play a 2-1-2 system that saw the team get continually beat before finally deciding to go with a 1-2-2 system. And don't get me started on how he manages to run his starting goaltenders into the ground. He burned out Mason last year, burnt out Elliott and now we've got to hope that he doesn't burn out Mrazek and gives Lyon starts. 

 

And then there's my favourite, the assistant coaches Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber aka Murphy and Laperriere. Gord Murphy is a complete moron. He can't coach defense if his life depended on it, but yet here is the guy with the 15 year assistant coaching career that has only managed to coach two defenses to a top 10 finish. Most of his finishes have been bottom third. And Laperriere is supposed to be the PK guy, but we've had a bottom third PK for the past four seasons. How much leeway does he give those guys before he decides to replace them. Oh wait, that's right, he had a chance to replace them, but didn't because he felt 'continuity' was important and they're 'good guys.' 

 

I could go on and on about how useless of a head coach Dave Hakstol is. Let's remember that one of his top players, Shayne Gostisbehere, has openly stated he no longer listens to the coaching staff. He just plays his game. 

 

I hate Hakstol. I hate everything there is about him as a head coach. People may be happy with the job he's done, but I'm not willing to give him a pass just because. There have been plenty of crappy coaches that have had success in the league. Hakstol is one of those guys - a worthless piece of excrement that has had incredible luck so far this season. Let's see how well the Flyers do when they start facing their toughest schedule down the stretch. They've got Tampa Bay (one more time), Pittsburgh (twice), Boston (twice), Winnipeg, Las Vegas and Washington coming up. Let's see how good they really are, because I'm certainly not convinced that the bottom four defense or the the fourth line is going to hold up and it's going to cost them games. That falls on Hakstol for not being patient and working in young guys to the lineup. He has to keep those mediocre veterans around because 'they follow the system' and they're 'reliable and safe'. 

[Podein25]

30 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I still don't like Hakstol as a head coach and nothing will change my mind about that. Considering the fact that he's been the one who has been hesitant on working in guys like Morin and Sanheim into the lineup so that we don't have to see scrubs like MacDonald or Manning is one thing I despise about the guy. Honestly, I could care less about the playoffs. He's supposed to be working those guys in and when they make a mistake, he either benches them or gets them banished. Watch how many gaffes MacTurd and Mancrap make and it's disgusting how they're continually gifted a spot in the lineup.

 

Or how about how he chooses to keep guys like Lehtera, Filppula in the lineup when we've got two great young guys in Vecchione and NAK sitting in Lehigh Valley who are ready. Look at how he defends his usage of Lehtera and Filppula as Lehtera brings a 'heavy' game to the ice (it's too bad it's Lehtera's fat ass and lead feet that are the only things that are heavy about his game) and Filppula is a veteran leader who plays a solid two-way (I've seen more solids left in my toilet bowl than Filppula's game). 

 

Let's also talk about how he kept all his top guys on one line for half the season before finally caving in and separating the top line to generate scoring. Or how about his decision to continually play a 2-1-2 system that saw the team get continually beat before finally deciding to go with a 1-2-2 system. And don't get me started on how he manages to run his starting goaltenders into the ground. He burned out Mason last year, burnt out Elliott and now we've got to hope that he doesn't burn out Mrazek and gives Lyon starts. 

 

And then there's my favourite, the assistant coaches Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber aka Murphy and Laperriere. Gord Murphy is a complete moron. He can't coach defense if his life depended on it, but yet here is the guy with the 15 year assistant coaching career that has only managed to coach two defenses to a top 10 finish. Most of his finishes have been bottom third. And Laperriere is supposed to be the PK guy, but we've had a bottom third PK for the past four seasons. How much leeway does he give those guys before he decides to replace them. Oh wait, that's right, he had a chance to replace them, but didn't because he felt 'continuity' was important and they're 'good guys.' 

 

I could go on and on about how useless of a head coach Dave Hakstol is. Let's remember that one of his top players, Shayne Gostisbehere, has openly stated he no longer listens to the coaching staff. He just plays his game. 

 

I hate Hakstol. I hate everything there is about him as a head coach. People may be happy with the job he's done, but I'm not willing to give him a pass just because. There have been plenty of crappy coaches that have had success in the league. Hakstol is one of those guys - a worthless piece of excrement that has had incredible luck so far this season. Let's see how well the Flyers do when they start facing their toughest schedule down the stretch. They've got Tampa Bay (one more time), Pittsburgh (twice), Boston (twice), Winnipeg, Las Vegas and Washington coming up. Let's see how good they really are, because I'm certainly not convinced that the bottom four defense or the the fourth line is going to hold up and it's going to cost them games. That falls on Hakstol for not being patient and working in young guys to the lineup. He has to keep those mediocre veterans around because 'they follow the system' and they're 'reliable and safe'. 

 

So much hatred in the world today, lol.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

39 minutes ago, Podein25 said:

 

So much hatred in the world today, lol.

 

Lol.....I have a sense of humour though!!!

[flyercanuck]

9 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

I still don't like Hakstol as a head coach and nothing will change my mind about that. Considering the fact that he's been the one who has been hesitant on working in guys like Morin and Sanheim into the lineup so that we don't have to see scrubs like MacDonald or Manning is one thing I despise about the guy. Honestly, I could care less about the playoffs. He's supposed to be working those guys in and when they make a mistake, he either benches them or gets them banished. Watch how many gaffes MacTurd and Mancrap make and it's disgusting how they're continually gifted a spot in the lineup.

 

Or how about how he chooses to keep guys like Lehtera, Filppula in the lineup when we've got two great young guys in Vecchione and NAK sitting in Lehigh Valley who are ready. Look at how he defends his usage of Lehtera and Filppula as Lehtera brings a 'heavy' game to the ice (it's too bad it's Lehtera's fat ass and lead feet that are the only things that are heavy about his game) and Filppula is a veteran leader who plays a solid two-way (I've seen more solids left in my toilet bowl than Filppula's game). 

 

Let's also talk about how he kept all his top guys on one line for half the season before finally caving in and separating the top line to generate scoring. Or how about his decision to continually play a 2-1-2 system that saw the team get continually beat before finally deciding to go with a 1-2-2 system. And don't get me started on how he manages to run his starting goaltenders into the ground. He burned out Mason last year, burnt out Elliott and now we've got to hope that he doesn't burn out Mrazek and gives Lyon starts. 

 

And then there's my favourite, the assistant coaches Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber aka Murphy and Laperriere. Gord Murphy is a complete moron. He can't coach defense if his life depended on it, but yet here is the guy with the 15 year assistant coaching career that has only managed to coach two defenses to a top 10 finish. Most of his finishes have been bottom third. And Laperriere is supposed to be the PK guy, but we've had a bottom third PK for the past four seasons. How much leeway does he give those guys before he decides to replace them. Oh wait, that's right, he had a chance to replace them, but didn't because he felt 'continuity' was important and they're 'good guys.' 

 

I could go on and on about how useless of a head coach Dave Hakstol is. Let's remember that one of his top players, Shayne Gostisbehere, has openly stated he no longer listens to the coaching staff. He just plays his game. 

 

I hate Hakstol. I hate everything there is about him as a head coach. People may be happy with the job he's done, but I'm not willing to give him a pass just because. There have been plenty of crappy coaches that have had success in the league. Hakstol is one of those guys - a worthless piece of excrement that has had incredible luck so far this season. Let's see how well the Flyers do when they start facing their toughest schedule down the stretch. They've got Tampa Bay (one more time), Pittsburgh (twice), Boston (twice), Winnipeg, Las Vegas and Washington coming up. Let's see how good they really are, because I'm certainly not convinced that the bottom four defense or the the fourth line is going to hold up and it's going to cost them games. That falls on Hakstol for not being patient and working in young guys to the lineup. He has to keep those mediocre veterans around because 'they follow the system' and they're 'reliable and safe'. 

 

Or we could talk about those first place Flyers...