fan4ever Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 My deepest sympathies to everyone who paid good, hard earned money to see that nightmare last night! Let's hope we bounce back quickly!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, sekkes85 said: That game was a complete dumpster fire. Right before the first goal we were looking great and then everything just fell apart. The complete lack of team defense and blown coverage was horrendous. Elliott definitely let in some softies but also had some good saves and didn't get much help from anyone. The part that really pissed me off the most was nobody seemed to get angry that they were getting embarrassed so bad during their home opener. Hopefully the game in Ottawa tonight can give them a little confidence and swagger back. On a positive note the renovations in the Mezzanine level looked great. My only gripe was there seemed to just be the same concessions spread out instead of more of a variety. Having a janitor in every bathroom was nice too and were probably the cleanest I've ever seen. Anyone else sitting in the Mezzanine, did the seats seem even smaller than before? I'm not a big guy by any stretch and it seemed tight, I can't even imagine being a larger fella (or lady) and trying to sit in those things as I was extremely uncomfortable. I agree on all counts. I loved the renovations but I expected to have more room in my section after what they had been saying in the newspapers. Also the drink holders are still in the armrests which make them non-functional. The only positive I can take away is that the Caps lost 8-2 in our home opener last year and we saw what happened with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poulin20 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 BTW for those that weren't there.... Dale Weise, McDud, Blow boy (Lehtera) and Hak all got booed when introduced during opening ceremonies last night. The players were roundly booed, Hak had 1/2 cheers and 1/2 boos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Poulin20 said: BTW for those that weren't there.... Dale Weise, McDud, Blow boy (Lehtera) and Hak all got booed when introduced during opening ceremonies last night. The players were roundly booed, Hak had 1/2 cheers and 1/2 boos. Although it's certainly the fans' right to boo, I still think it's a pretty ****** thing to do to your own players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 That game was a disaster.... Hak's in-game management is just dreadful - how about a freaking time out Hak!??!? Burn the score sheet and come out tonight with piss and vinegar. That was truly just an embarrassment of a game. The entire organization should be embarrassed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 12 hours ago, Howie58 said: I think Hakstol has a lot chewing out to do. I am not sure Hak has a clue honestly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 This was the first game I got to watch from start to finish (caught parts of the other two games). Angry that I bothered to do so. Obviously agree with what most folks have already said. However, I'm really disturbed by how quickly this team wilted after giving up two quick goals, especially in a home opener. Once again, they showed they have great difficulty dealing with adversity. I'm also bothered by the fact that no one stepped up with a strong shift or a big hit or did anything else to get the energy/confidence up. No one seemed to care. That's a problem from the first line down to the fourth line. Also, coming out of camp, with supposedly lots of practice time, why do these guys look so out-of-sync and unprepared? Why do they look like a team trying to adjust to a new coach? Finally, I don't have a big problem with Hakstol leaving in Elliott. I am guessing the decision to start Pickard tonight had already been made and Hakstol didn't want to put him in service last night in a game that got away quickly. Might have been a difficult situation for Pickard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 2 hours ago, sekkes85 said: The part that really pissed me off the most was nobody seemed to get angry that they were getting embarrassed so bad during their home opener. Exactly. Nobody did anything to turn the tide. Obviously you can't just drop the gloves, but there was no shift where anyone did anything to try to turn the energy. No hit. No dominant shift. No pushing or shoving. They just rolled over. That's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, vis said: Exactly. Nobody did anything to turn the tide. Obviously you can't just drop the gloves, but there was no shift where anyone did anything to try to turn the energy. No hit. No dominant shift. No pushing or shoving. They just rolled over. That's embarrassing. Who do we have on the team that does kind of thing? Simmonds? I'd say he's the only vet that does that somewhat consistently. Giroux? He's definitely capable of it, but only when he gets in his I've-Finally-Had-Enough mode. TK? He's still young. That's not an excuse, just might not be a part of his NHL-level game yet. Other than that, who else is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, vis said: I am guessing the decision to start Pickard tonight had already been made and Hakstol didn't want to put him in service last night in a game that got away quickly. I hope Pickard pitches a shutout so we have a goalie controversy on our hands. Never had that as a Flyer fan before. But seriously it is Ron's fault for the Flyers being the only team in the NHL to start the season with 5 backup goalies on the team and system...and you sit there and look at almost 10 mill in cap space and i can't help but feel he didn't do enough to improve the goal situation just threw more fuel on the fire. And look here we are....13 goals given up in the last two games alone...sure the players are at fault for some if not most of it. But to not value one of the most important positions in the NHL is just plain foolish. And they are paying the price of having bums in goal. When the Flames would jettison Elliott and go with oft injured 85 year old Mike Smith that should tell you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, brelic said: only when he gets in his I've-Finally-Had-Enough mode When is tha?? After the 9th goal??? When does Jake get there?? The 10th goal given up?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, brelic said: Who do we have on the team that does kind of thing? Simmonds? I'd say he's the only vet that does that somewhat consistently. Giroux? He's definitely capable of it, but only when he gets in his I've-Finally-Had-Enough mode. TK? He's still young. That's not an excuse, just might not be a part of his NHL-level game yet. Other than that, who else is there? That's partially my point. The make-up of this team does not lend itself to physical play, let alone fighting - and that's a problem. Physical hockey still exists. (Btw, I'm not suggesting anyone should have dropped the gloves - those days are gone). But aside from that, I don't recall a shift where it looked like someone was trying to take charge and turn the tide. Didn't see it from any of the first three lines and didn't see much energy from the fourth line (except maybe Laughton). You can take charge or try to change momentum without necessarily laying a big hit or pushing and shoving. Go out and have a strong shift... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 35 minutes ago, vis said: This was the first game I got to watch from start to finish (caught parts of the other two games). Angry that I bothered to do so. Obviously agree with what most folks have already said. However, I'm really disturbed by how quickly this team wilted after giving up two quick goals, especially in a home opener. Once again, they showed they have great difficulty dealing with adversity. I'm also bothered by the fact that no one stepped up with a strong shift or a big hit or did anything else to get the energy/confidence up. No one seemed to care. That's a problem from the first line down to the fourth line. Is that players or coaching or both? I have no idea. But, I will say 'youth' and 'inexperience' is one part of the equation. For all the criticism Hak takes on playing vets over rookies/young prospects, the reality when compared across the league is very different, especially on defense. Sanheim is the 18th youngest defenseman in the NHL. That means there is less than ONE defenseman his age or younger per team. One of the guys younger than him is Provorvov. So we have two of the 18. Add Hagg to that (34th youngest), and that means HALF our defense is composed of players so young that there are on average only ONE of those guys on other NHL squads. Ghost is 25. And people want to add Myers and/or Friedman? Some would even bring in Hart? If you think last night was bad, it would get a metric ton worse. These guys WILL make mistakes and will make them often. And they will also be unsure how/when/if to respond to a whole range of situations. Look at Provorov, who is struggling, and at 21, is expected to anchor our defense. I love the guy, but maybe, just maybe, Hextall has not set up this squad with the right vets around him. I don't know if/how he could have since MacDonald is really the one that needs upgrading, but he's not moveable. All this to say that I think this is one part that can help explain why the team performs the way it does. 35 minutes ago, vis said: Also, coming out of camp, with supposedly lots of practice time, why do these guys look so out-of-sync and unprepared? Why do they look like a team trying to adjust to a new coach? In the trends I've noticed in all games so far, they look that way because of two reasons IMO - 1) they are unable to contain faster teams who drive the net (Vegas, Avs, and Sharks all did this) 2) they play a perimeter game in the offensive zone and don't drive the net the way their opponents have so far A look at the shot heatmap from last night's game shows you the difference... can't find it right now, though. I saw it posted somewhere last night. I'll look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: When is tha?? After the 9th goal??? When does Jake get there?? The 10th goal given up?? No no no, much later. After the 10 consecutive loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 40 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: and you sit there and look at almost 10 mill in cap space and i can't help but feel he didn't do enough to improve the goal situation just threw more fuel on the fire. These were the FA options for "goalie" last season: Kari Lehtfourin Steven Mason Matt O'Connor Sean Maguire Michael Leighton Mackenzie Skapski Ryan Faragher That was it. Not a whole lot to be done there. Here are goalies that were traded for last year: Filip Gustavsson Dustin Tokarski (by the Flyers) Calvin Pickard (currently on the Flyers) Eddie Lack Dylan Ferguson Here are goalies that were traded for since June: Philip Grubauer Eamon McAdam Hayden Hawkey There's maybe one guy - Grubauer - I would have taken out of all of those. And he cost the Avs a 2nd rounder and a buyout of Orpik. The franchise is clearly waiting for Hart to emerge. That's why they signed Elliott and Neuvirth to their deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie58 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Elliott's performance was what it was. And as folks here have mentioned, nobody tried to right the ship. But what scares me, and Brelic nails it, is inability to control the neutral zone and just being skated around/through. That is our D. But it is also our forwards not chipping in. Either way, too many odd-man rushes. The commentators mentioned that last night...their telestrators were clear about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I hope Pickard pitches a shutout so we have a goalie controversy on our hands. Never had that as a Flyer fan before. But seriously it is Ron's fault for the Flyers being the only team in the NHL to start the season with 5 backup goalies on the team and system...and you sit there and look at almost 10 mill in cap space and i can't help but feel he didn't do enough to improve the goal situation just threw more fuel on the fire. And look here we are....13 goals given up in the last two games alone...sure the players are at fault for some if not most of it. But to not value one of the most important positions in the NHL is just plain foolish. And they are paying the price of having bums in goal. When the Flames would jettison Elliott and go with oft injured 85 year old Mike Smith that should tell you something. I don't like making excuses for Hextall, but I'm not sure if there were any realistic options this past offseason that would have significantly improved the goaltending. His biggest failure, imo, was committing to Neuvirth as your backup a couple of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 47 minutes ago, radoran said: That's why they signed Elliott and Neuvirth to their deals. Thanks for the post. Saw that after I posted mine. I do think committing to Neuvirth could/should have been avoided given his history. That's the only real issue I see with how they have handled the current goaltenders. To add one more to the list, I think Carter Hutton was available as well. He may have been an option, but with Elliott and Neuvirth already signed, not sure it would have been feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 45 minutes ago, radoran said: There's maybe one guy - Grubauer - I would have taken out of all of those. And he cost the Avs a 2nd rounder and a buyout of Orpik. So let me get this right...basically Adam Ginning and a buyout of Orpik (2.5 this year and 1.5 mill next year) to have Elliott and Grubauer in net than the mess they have now??? F**k me bro i do that all day. Not saying Grubauer is the answer but he would be an upgrade over what they have now. Sorry but that isn't a step price at all to more stability in net now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I suggested trading for Craig Anderson. Yeah he is pretty long in the tooth but i think he is better than Elliott. Hell is just 2 years removed from taking the Sens to the conference finals and losing in game 7 to the eventually Cup winners. Elliott has been to the conference finals once in 2015 and was just 9-9 in that run. Just saying Hextall could have traded for a better stop gap option...but can't guess any further first...because you have to not settle. Which it seems like what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, brelic said: Is that players or coaching or both? I have no idea. Leadership, which includes coaching. Also, fault the GM for putting together a lineup devoid of energy-type players - particularly on the fourth line. 1 hour ago, brelic said: But, I will say 'youth' and 'inexperience' is one part of the equation. For all the criticism Hak takes on playing vets over rookies/young prospects, the reality when compared across the league is very different, especially on defense. I get it re: mistakes. But again, I think there are enough vets on the roster who should be able to step up, or rally others to step up, when the game is getting away from them. Or, at least keep the team from wilting in the face of adversity. 1 hour ago, brelic said: Look at Provorov, who is struggling, and at 21, is expected to anchor our defense. I love the guy, but maybe, just maybe, Hextall has not set up this squad with the right vets around him. I think top priority for Hextall should be to find a vet to lend experience and solidify some things on the defense. I don't think MacDonald or Gudas suffice in that department. Having someone like that could settle things down a bit. 1 hour ago, brelic said: 1) they are unable to contain faster teams who drive the net (Vegas, Avs, and Sharks all did this) 2) they play a perimeter game in the offensive zone and don't drive the net the way their opponents have so far New season, but same old story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, vis said: I don't like making excuses for Hextall, but I'm not sure if there were any realistic options this past offseason that would have significantly improved the goaltending. His biggest failure, imo, was committing to Neuvirth as your backup a couple of years ago. I'm sure there were many teams just dandling a goalie but he has to pick up the phone and call to see if he could pry some away. Sure it would cost some assets. But it seems he was content to just stick with the pile of garbage he has now. Settle. But there are some decent contracts out there you could take on if you be creative. And sure you have the space to take something back like he did with Lehtera and even buy them out like Orpik was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 minute ago, vis said: I think top priority for Hextall should be to find a vet to lend experience and solidify some things on the defense. I don't think MacDonald or Gudas suffice in that department. Having someone like that could settle things down a bit. Agreed. The UFA crop this past offseason was not great. It was basically DeHaan (4yr/$18M) or Cole (3yr/$13M). And neither of those guys were great options. The only way to get what we need is through a trade - and that will involve prospects, surely, and likely a roster player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vis Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 Just now, OccamsRazor said: I'm sure there were many teams just dandling a goalie but he has to pick up the phone and call to see if he could pry some away. Did you mean "weren"t" instead of "were"? How do you know he didn't inquire, particularly about Grubauer? Do you think the Caps would have traded him within the division? Also, Grubauer signed a new deal with the Avs for $10m+ for the next three years. Who knows if that would have worked if he was traded to the Flyers or what kind of promises the Avs were able to make to his agent that the Flyers weren't in position to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 I even suggested Halak as an option who was free to sign anywhere....sure once again older but i think an upgrade over what they currently have. Or at least i think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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