Do the Flyers make the playoffs next season???

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

I don't know about that switch.  Firing Hakstol and making a few subtle shifts pretty much flipped a switch for this team.   Carter Hart didn't hurt either.  

 

Yes but there is NO switch you can flip.

 

The teams had to make up their minds they are going to play better and clean up some of the issue they showed when they were losing and they did better, but it was not enough...the powerplay was slide back to putrid and what ultimately lead to them not making the playoffs they were once again when fighting for the playoff one of the worst in the NHL. 

 

Now they have a chance to fix these issues....will they?

[King Knut]

17 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes but there is NO switch you can flip.

 

The teams had to make up their minds they are going to play better and clean up some of the issue they showed when they were losing and they did better, but it was not enough...the powerplay was slide back to putrid and what ultimately lead to them not making the playoffs they were once again when fighting for the playoff one of the worst in the NHL. 

 

Now they have a chance to fix these issues....will they?

 

THey had one of the best PP's two years ago.  So they can.  Will they?  I think they will.  Depends on how much Fletcher shakes things up, but I think they will.  

[OccamsRazor]

17 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

THey had one of the best PP's two years ago.  So they can.  Will they?  I think they will.  Depends on how much Fletcher shakes things up, but I think they will.  

 

Well i think Knoblach needs to go it went south after he replaced Mullen. Find another option.

[King Knut]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well i think Knoblach needs to go it went south after he replaced Mullen. Find another option.

 

Still a head scratcher.

[OccamsRazor]

13 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Still a head scratcher.

 

Well that was Hextall's decision not to renew his contract. And it looks to be not a smart move right now.

 

Not sure how good he is.

 

I guess since he bested the much heralded Sheldon Keefe twice in the OHL playoffs, it make him look like a genius that maybe he wasn't, maybe it was just the Mcdavid edge that put him over the top and he reaped the benefits of it.

 

Either way now is the time to make a change if they intend to do so.

[King Knut]

49 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well that was Hextall's decision not to renew his contract. And it looks to be not a smart move right now.

 

Not sure how good he is.

 

I guess since he bested the much heralded Sheldon Keefe twice in the OHL playoffs, it make him look like a genius that maybe he wasn't, maybe it was just the Mcdavid edge that put him over the top and he reaped the benefits of it.

 

Either way now is the time to make a change if they intend to do so.

 

Yeah... I understand there was some tension or at least conflicting approaches with Hakstol...  which in hindsight seems like something in Joey's favor.

 

Hextall really just had such a blind spot when it came to Hak.  Almost makes me wonder if something happened at UND with Brett at some point and Hak maybe greatly endeared himself to the family.  

 

Grabbing at straws, but it's SUCH an amazing blind spot that really did in everything Hextall had managed to do in building the team.  Efforts that the team and the fans and Hextall's eventual replacement will benefit from for a long time.  

 

Just like the Snider/Homer relationship, it really seems like the personal bond got in the way of hockey sense.  It's a damn shame.  This year could have gone so differently.  

[FD19372]

7 hours ago, King Knut said:

They're better than Boston

I agree with everything you've said, except for that. No they're not. They don't have a dynamic line like the Bruins do, nor a top 4 defense like they do.

[FD19372]

7 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Columbus will not be the same after this offseason so that opens a spot right there.

 

Toronto too won't be the same and have many issues to resolve.

 

And i'm not convinced the Isles can do this again because they have quite a few guys who need new contracts too.

 

Don't underestimate what solid goaltending for a WHOLE season and a solid coach can do for this club.

 

They aren't far off....and all the kids will be older and wiser...to soon to say what CAN'T happen.

 

They only need a few tweaks. Get the damn power play going and they are a playoff team....you heard it here first.

They'd better upgrade their defense with a solid veteran, and get some scoring depth before I can say with any confidence that they are a top 8 team in the East.

[King Knut]

13 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I agree with everything you've said, except for that. No they're not. They don't have a dynamic line like the Bruins do, nor a top 4 defense like they do.

 

...And yet they beat the Bruins 2 out of 3.

[FD19372]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

...And yet they beat the Bruins 2 out of 3.

A lot of good that did the Flyers. They're golfing, and the Bruins are playing in the NHL playoffs.

[King Knut]

1 hour ago, FD19372 said:

A lot of good that did the Flyers. They're golfing, and the Bruins are playing in the NHL playoffs.

 

Hakstol. 

[FD19372]

3 minutes ago, King Knut said:

 

Hakstol. 

Yes. The players who played had nothing to do with it. It's all his fault. 

[King Knut]

10 hours ago, FD19372 said:

Yes. The players who played had nothing to do with it. It's all his fault. 

 

 

The players on the ice had something to do with it by not the way you mean. 

 

A) he was coaching them to go to the wrong positioning and that was being exploited.  They were chronically out of position to effectively shut down offenses in their own zone and were utterly unable to exit their zone or start an effective transition.  Could have been the players except:

B)Hakstol benched the players that didn’t do that and played the ones that did even though they weren’t as good. 

 

You can give Fletch credit for trading Weise and Lehtera and Folin, but the fact of the matter was, Gordon had more or less stopped playing them and their minutes went to the more talented (usually younger) players who were now not being exploited for be unable to execute Hakstol's “System”. 

 

Additionally, Gordon barely played the 4th line at all.  So even more time went to the better players. Let alone in the final 2 mins of a close game. 

 

Suddenly the Flyers were scoring more and the opposition was getting weaker chances against (though many more of them). Fewer flyer defensive breakdowns leading to open men right next to the net. 

 

But i’m sure the most likely scenario is that the players just decided to “try harder”?

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by King Knut

[radoran]

14 hours ago, King Knut said:

 

...And yet they beat the Bruins 2 out of 3.

 

Remember when the Flyers were good and they would "play down" to inferior opponents and lose to teams they "should" beat during the regular season?

 

That.

 

Remember when losing to the Cup Finalist was "a good sign" that the team was "ready to make the next step"

 

That was seven years ago.

 

This team simply has to stop being "better on paper" and start being "better on the ice"

 

While they did improve under Gordon, the facts are they got waxed by playoff teams down the stretch and that's why they didn't make "the next step" into the playoffs. Playoff teams were simply better than they were.

 

You don't have to take my word for it. Voracek said it. And it was true. And remains true until they show differently.

[King Knut]

28 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

Remember when the Flyers were good and they would "play down" to inferior opponents and lose to teams they "should" beat during the regular season?

 

That.

 

Remember when losing to the Cup Finalist was "a good sign" that the team was "ready to make the next step"

 

That was seven years ago.

 

This team simply has to stop being "better on paper" and start being "better on the ice"

 

While they did improve under Gordon, the facts are they got waxed by playoff teams down the stretch and that's why they didn't make "the next step" into the playoffs. Playoff teams were simply better than they were.

 

You don't have to take my word for it. Voracek said it. And it was true. And remains true until they show differently.

 

I don’t disagree in premise.  Just severity. 

 

I’ll add that the. BRuins are down to the Jackets now too. I just don’t think they’re all that. I think the Leafs played down (and had been for a while). 

 

The way I see it is that Gordon made some changes that helped and Hart helped and Stolarz and Elliott looked okay again too.  

 

But by March those Flyers were essentially at the spot most teams are in December and the bubble and playoff  teams were shifting to April mode.  

 

The Flyers just didn’t compete because they weren’t up to that speed and didn’t have the depth. 

 

By Gordon’s own admission, he didn’t change the system as that’s too hard to do mid season. They just tweaked it. 

 

The goal is with an actual camp under a real NHL coach and a full season playing his system, they can then turn it up in March and April like good teams do with know how and familiarity with the system. 

 

Hopefully Fletcher can improve the top lines and thus the bottom six and hence the depth improves. 

 

I think they they make the playoffs with either ONE of those. With BOTH and the simultaneous decline of some other teams ahead of them due to cap issues and it looks much better. 

 

 

[radoran]

4 hours ago, King Knut said:

The goal is with an actual camp under a real NHL coach and a full season playing his system, they can then turn it up in March and April like good teams do with know how and familiarity with the system. 

 

You know - from your fingers to God's message board, right?

 

I'm not at all saying the "can't" do it. I'm saying they haven't. And until they do this is where I am.

[King Knut]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

You know - from your fingers to God's message board, right?

 

I'm not at all saying the "can't" do it. I'm saying they haven't. And until they do this is where I am.

 

I’m coming at it from almost the opposite direction.  

 

I’ve believed since they fired Lavvy that (looking at the contracts they had and the draft picks they’d not been picking because they’d traded them) this was at least a five year journey.  

 

Even if they’d tanked and gotten higher picks, they’d had no picks in so long that they had nothing in the pipeline and depth would be lacking. 

 

Sure... you make the playoffs and anything’s possible.  Especially with a good coach and that’s why i’f Get rankled during the pens or caps series, because you see those possibilities.  But they didn’t have that coach and they didn’t have thats depth and the playoffs are all about depth.  Well depth and injuries. 

 

They have ave a lot of really good pieces.  They will have a coach with a decent track record. He wasn’t my choice and He may not innovate much, but he’s not green and that’s not a terrible trade off.  

 

With a vet addition and two subtractions, they could have an utterly elite defensive corps. 

 

With a Vet addition and a rookie coming into fruition, they could be rolling 3 strong lines and a fantastic 4th. 

 

Carter Hart with (presumably) Talbot backing (though I hope that joker gets better). 

 

A full camp and season with coherent NHL coaching.

 

It’s hard to turn it up a notch when your system doesn’t work.  

 

Even if you patch it with some duct tape, it’s hard to go to the next gear doing something you’re only just learning.  

 

They just learned to ride the bike without gordon and that got them moving much better and they caught up to them peloton. 

 

But the leaders have been riding riding THEIR bikes for a lot longer and it was second nature, so they could turn it up a notch and the Flyers couldn’t keep up because they’d only just learned to pedal theirs.  

 

Seeing the drastic difference between November and February solidified my views on this. It was more than just motivation and a better goalie.  I think those things helped and all the factors fed each other.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RonJeremy]

We certainly have more talent than the Isles,  it's amazing what a real coach can do..

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

If they don't make the playoffs next year, that should spell the end of Giroux in Philadelphia. 

[OccamsRazor]

20 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

If they don't make the playoffs next year, that should spell the end of Giroux in Philadelphia. 

 

I would love to argue against that....but he needs to be held accountable just like everyone else.

 

And i would be good with that as long as they get a King's ransom in return...not going to give the Captain away.

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

21 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would love to argue against that....but he needs to be held accountable just like everyone else.

 

And i would be good with that as long as they get a King's ransom in return...not going to give the Captain away.

 

I don't think it will be an accountability issue if they move Giroux because he's the one guy that shows up consistently. Moving Giroux will be because the club is simply further away from contention than they thought they were. Giroux is that one asset that can bring a franchise changing return. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I don't think it will be an accountability issue if they move Giroux because he's the one guy that shows up consistently. Moving Giroux will be because the club is simply further away from contention than they thought they were. Giroux is that one asset that can bring a franchise changing return. 

 

I would rather move Jake first see how that helps and give Gioux one more year.

[mojo1917]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would rather move Jake first see how that helps and give Gioux one more year.

Jake doesn't bring the same return as Giroux.  I think big picture- @BobbyClarkeFan16 has a good feel for what would happen.

If they don't make the playoffs this year it's because it turns out they suck, getting rid of Jake doesn't implode the team the way dealing Giroux does.  I've said a few times, maybe the team has been awful but G and V are the febreeze that makes the beer and chilli dump odor smell more like tropical fruit. 

If they don't progress this year, blow it up. 

I don't think that's happening though, I think they sign a couple of guys and wind up being very competitive. 

I'm hoping anyway. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Jake doesn't bring the same return as Giroux.  I think big picture- @BobbyClarkeFan16 has a good feel for what would happen.

If they don't make the playoffs this year it's because it turns out they suck, getting rid of Jake doesn't implode the team the way dealing Giroux does.  I've said a few times, maybe the team has been awful but G and V are the febreeze that makes the beer and chilli dump odor smell more like tropical fruit. 

If they don't progress this year, blow it up. 

I don't think that's happening though, I think they sign a couple of guys and wind up being very competitive. 

I'm hoping anyway. 

 

Yeah I know Jake won't bring the same return and I would be willing to give him one more year but someone from the core has to go that is why I say Jake.

 

Besides I don't think you get as much as you think selling low on Giroux.

[mojo1917]

23 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

Besides I don't think you get as much as you think selling low on Giroux.

you 're implying he would have to have a bad year for the team to not make the playoffs ?

He was a ppg player this year  - I don't see an easy correlation between the Flyers missing the playoffs and then selling "low" on G. 

 

We're not talking about injured for 2 months Mats Zuccarello here.  It would be a Charles Barkely for the Pu-pu platter of players and picks type deal and would certainly alter the course of the franchise. 

 

I'm hoping this is just an intellectual exercise.