OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, elmatus said: Turris? Seems unlikely as Nashville is still contending, and they're already trying to move Subban to give cap space. I bet they would love to move Kyle Turris and that terrible contract. 5 more year at 6 mill....yikes that is a terrible one. They gave him 6 mill and all they got in return is Scott Laughton numbers. Turris 14 gls 18 ast 32 pts Laughton 12 gls 20 ast 32 pts Man Laughton looks like a helluva bargain. Pres want to go hard after Duchene so they need to move Turris but they will have to eat a lot of salary to do that. And no way in hell i want any part of that....he or Subban. Only one on that list i like is Karlsson. A RFA i do like and not sure if his team would move him but i would kick the tires on a trade is Alexander Kerfoot. I think he is ready for a promotion but i think he is worth a look as the 2nd line center. My only concern with him is his size. Another would Dallas move Jason Dickinson??? Not sure. But i want a guy who isn't old. LA's Adrian Kempe??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, elmatus said: Karlsson would need Ghost for sure. I'm not sure Kadri would though. In fact, I don't think it would be a good move frankly to trade Ghost for Kadri No to Ghost for Kadri. I would do Hagg for him. But if i am moving Ghost Karlsson better be coming back. And now they have the new rumors that Hayes want to sign with Boston. Makes me ask do you really want to date the girl you like after you find out she likes other guys who aren't crazy about her so she says she will "settle" for you?? Yeah i know terrible analogy but i am changing my mind on this guy and that could be wrong due to all these rumors and we don't even know who started them...and i am falling into the trap they set or were intended for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: Only one on that list i like is Karlsson. You wouldn't go for Point? I'm not saying he'd even be available at all, but if he were, I would give that a shot for sure. I agree Karlsson would seem more likely given Vegas' cap situation though. I also agree that giving up Ghost for anyone but Karlsson or Point from my previous list is likely to be a mistake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, elmatus said: Again, Niskanen really isn't that much better. In fact, at his age and with the season he had last year, he may very well be worse. He has a chance maybe to bring something they need a guy who can help with the breakout which the Flyers struggle with. I think he may even slot on the 2nd pair with Sanheim. I think they will still target someone to play with Ivan. Besides he is only sign for one more year than Gudas which certainly worth the risk of the positive he brings. Morin and Myers could slot into the 3rd pair till they settle in maybe even for all of this upcoming year. There is another shoe to drop on this defense.....and it may be at the draft....i can see where this is going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, elmatus said: Gudas was one of our better dmen last season. And he was basically a 3rd pair guy....that is Morin/Hagg and Myers new spot Niskanen is a top 4 guy. Provorov/?????? Sanheim/Niskanen Morin/Myers Hagg and or Ghost i think will be sent packing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, elmatus said: You wouldn't go for Point? I'm not saying he'd even be available at all, but if he were, I would give that a shot for sure. I agree Karlsson would seem more likely given Vegas' cap situation though. I also agree that giving up Ghost for anyone but Karlsson or Point from my previous list is likely to be a mistake. I don't think Tampe will be moving him is all...but yeah i would love the kid but like Marner those guys team will be keeping. Edited June 17, 2019 by OccamsRazor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 On 6/16/2019 at 11:18 AM, OccamsRazor said: This is what i want is a guy who can creep down low and help support the puck and actually get the shot on net... ...just didn't see Gudas do this much he usually stops a the the top of the blueline, maybe it was his lack of speed to be able to get back Even down low around the goal mouth...you just have to be able to find the puck... ...i just think Niskanen can do more to help with offense... ...and can even skate it in if he has too...fast foward to 1:52 mark...right through Fyers defense and Mason... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1im0q1nebq4 Sure it's risky they have 5 D men under contract right now and i think they have more moves...we'll see what is up next... I'd be more impressed with those vids if they were from last season. The wheels are falling off Niskanens cart...I just hope he's got something left. Cause Gudas seems to be just coming into his best years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I'd be more impressed with those vids if they were from last season. The wheels are falling off Niskanens cart...I just hope he's got something left. Cause Gudas seems to be just coming into his best years. Sure but having Orlov as a partner isn't doing him any favors though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 But the fact remains, the GM appears to have made a nice move here. He moved Gudas, then moved AMcD to off set the price. We can argue whos better, but I was juat pointing out that this GM might be a crafty guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 2 hours ago, CoachX said: But the fact remains, the GM appears to have made a nice move here. He moved Gudas, then moved AMcD to off set the price. I don't think moving Gudas is necessarily a plus. McDud, sure. But there are plenty of teams that would have traded for Gudas.. 2 hours ago, CoachX said: We can argue whos better, but I was juat pointing out that this GM might be a crafty guy Have you seen the Minnesota Wild? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TropicalFruitGirl26 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I don't think moving Gudas is necessarily a plus. McDud, sure. But there are plenty of teams that would have traded for Gudas.. Have you seen the Minnesota Wild? To be fair, FC, he may have meant crafty as in "cheesy"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 59 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: I don't think moving Gudas is necessarily a plus. McDud, sure. But there are plenty of teams that would have traded for Gudas.. Have you seen the Minnesota Wild? I think moving Gudas was a plus. We got a better player who brings more to the table for the team needs. Moving AM was overdue and the money turns out to be a wash. So addition by subtraction. Mcdonald out! Flyers better! If you are using past performance as a precursor for future outcomes, I would bring up Craig Berube. Didnt do well as a Flyers coach, win a cup with Stl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 9 hours ago, elmatus said: Again, Niskanen really isn't that much better. In fact, at his age and with the season he had last year, he may very well be worse. That said, this remains a wash to me until proven differently. I don't hate the trade, but I don't think this is a big trade by any standard. It's a meh. This forum is suffering an awful lot from blame everyone syndrome. Gudas was one of our better dmen last season. And yeah, that's partially because both Provo and Ghost had down years, but it's still something of note. He revamped his usual game and still managed to be relatively effective when compared to others on the team. Niskanen is generally better offensively, which is nice. But a straight up "who's better" comparison is a hard sell. I'm fine with the trade, but I'm not excited by it either. I want to see a trade that actually makes this team measurably better, and this just isn't that. I'm hoping we do see one in the next bit. Niskanen is better. He plays five minutes more a night and has a stronger locker room presence and a cup under his belt. Gudas was likely going to have to be traded at some point this year, so this eliminates the dilemma of losing that player for the playoff push. Mall this said, I’m now really low on. I hung out MacDonald and spending to the cap this year. It gets more cap space now, but if they’re up against the cap this year, then they will be next year too and resigning RFAs will be nigh on impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Knut Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: I don't think moving Gudas is necessarily a plus. McDud, sure. But there are plenty of teams that would have traded for Gudas.. Have you seen the Minnesota Wild? Lots of teams would have traded for Gudas, but how many trade you a top4 d man for him? and you e but the nail on the head. There’s nothing “crafty” about a damn thing Fletcher's doing so far unless he’s got a decoupage shop on Etsy I don’t know about. This is all fairly basic stuff. It could all end up heading someplace crafty, but I remain unconvinced and will believe it when I see it. My my guess is that Washington was one of the teams calling about Gudas at the deadline so he made a call. Waiving AMac was likely always part of his plan. I’m assuming it was part of Hextall’s too considering he’d done it once before when they actually kinda needed him and this year they simply don’t have the room. The essentially got got a better asset for Gudas 9 months ahead of the deadline. That’s about it. That’s a good solid move. It ain’t crafty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 10 hours ago, CoachX said: I think moving Gudas was a plus. We got a better player who brings more to the table for the team needs. Moving AM was overdue and the money turns out to be a wash. So addition by subtraction. Mcdonald out! Flyers better! If you are using past performance as a precursor for future outcomes, I would bring up Craig Berube. Didnt do well as a Flyers coach, win a cup with Stl We hope we got a better player. If Niskanen rebounds then we did. If he continues his regression, not so much. Berubes coaching has zero to do with Fletchers work as a GM. And so far in Philly all he's really done is helped 2 other teams with their salary cap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 FWIW, here's a take on Provorov and Talbot by Ek. https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rangers-snag-Trouba-Rumor-Update-Mons-Buzz/1/99991 On Provorov...This will not be an easy deal and it is tied to McAvoy directly I am told. The attitude around the Flyers is very much a "No BS" one right now....which won't help much in this case. Provorov doesn't want a bridge deal. Could be a holdout.On Talbot...Hearing a return to Alberta is possible....But south of Edmonton... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, brelic said: On Provorov...This will not be an easy deal and it is tied to McAvoy directly I am told. The attitude around the Flyers is very much a "No BS" one right now....which won't help much in this case. Provorov doesn't want a bridge deal. Could be a holdout. I don't like what this is saying at all. I like McAvoy as much as the next guy, but he doesn't have the two-way potential Provo does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, elmatus said: I don't like what this is saying at all. I like McAvoy as much as the next guy, but he doesn't have the two-way potential Provo does. I was more focused on Provorov not wanting a bridge deal. He had a poor season, and not just because of the 'team' around him. There were so many head-scratching moments from Provorov that had nothing to do with anyone but himself, and that would give me pause for concern as GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 4 hours ago, flyercanuck said: Berubes coaching has zero to do with Fletchers work as a GM. And so far in Philly all he's really done is helped 2 other teams with their salary cap. Point is, past failure doesnt ensure future failure. Have faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 40 minutes ago, elmatus said: I don't like what this is saying at all. I like McAvoy as much as the next guy, but he doesn't have the two-way potential Provo does. I took that quote to be about Provorov's agent. I don't think Fletcher is talking to Boston about McAvoy, I think that is a clear down grade as well If we think that , I'll bet ol' Chuck does too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, CoachX said: Point is, past failure doesnt ensure future failure. Have faith While I agree with what you're saying, all I have to judge him on is his past. His drafting was "meh", his trades were "meh" and his capology was "eww". My faith spans decades and decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachX Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 minute ago, flyercanuck said: While I agree with what you're saying, all I have to judge him on is his past. His drafting was "meh", his trades were "meh" and his capology was "eww". My faith spans decades and decades. I realize this is off topic, but Bill Belichik floundered in the NFL for years. Now he is considered one of, if not THE, best coaches ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, brelic said: I was more focused on Provorov not wanting a bridge deal. He had a poor season, and not just because of the 'team' around him. There were so many head-scratching moments from Provorov that had nothing to do with anyone but himself, and that would give me pause for concern as GM. Honestly I'm not so sure. Him having a down year will impact his salary anyway. Let's say for a moment he bounces back and develops into the norris contender many have suspected he would become. If he signs a long contract now, it would probably be something like 6-7M for eight. Sure, that's not good if the Provo from last season turns out to be the norm, but it would be a fantastic contract if Provo becomes the next Doughty, which he very well could. Say on the other hand he gets a bridge deal and spends the next two seasons becoming that guy. Suddenly we're on the hook for 10M or more and two of those younger years are behind him. My personal feelings are that last year's Provo just doesn't add up to his potential. A lot went wrong with the team. His fall was so precipitous it almost has to be an anomaly. What other reason could there be realistically? And if thats' the case, he should be signed to term now while his value is comparatively lower than it will be in two years. Edited June 18, 2019 by elmatus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 1 hour ago, mojo1917 said: I took that quote to be about Provorov's agent. I don't think Fletcher is talking to Boston about McAvoy, I think that is a clear down grade as well If we think that , I'll bet ol' Chuck does too. I really hope so. You have to be right -- right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted June 18, 2019 Share Posted June 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, elmatus said: Honestly I'm not so sure. Him having a down year will impact his salary anyway. Let's say for a moment he bounces back and develops into the norris contender many have suspected he would become. If he signs a long contract now, it would probably be something like 6-7M for eight. Sure, that's not good if the Provo from last season turns out to be the norm, but it would be a fantastic contract if Provo becomes the next Doughty, which he very well could. Say on the other hand he gets a bridge deal and spends the next two seasons becoming that guy. Suddenly we're on the hook for 10M and two of those younger years are behind him. I think that's exactly the point, though... Provorov doesn't want a bridge deal, so they are having a hard time gauging his long-term value. His uneven play does not inspire confidence in projecting his value. The danger with a bridge deal is you end up with a Trouba situation where Provorov wants out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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