Game 17: Flyers at Bruins 11/10/19 7pm

[ruxpin]

6 hours ago, brelic said:

He is a perfect candidate to move when you really need to, but I don’t think we really need to right now. 

 

He's the perfect candidate for Seattle.

 

Agree with your whole post.   It won't be long before someone is coming up to replace him (next year or year following) so let him be exposed to the Seattle Dark Roast.

Edited November 11, 2019 by ruxpin

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

The other reason is because I strongly disagree about the skating.

 

I think alot of it could have something to do with fatigue I mean he went from college to the NHL so he isn't use to playing 3 games in four nights in the best league in the world.

 

But I agree too I'm not seeing any glaring deficit in his skating but then again I too am not a skating expert by any means but i did stay at a Holiday Inn once...

 

And I think the whole team seemed to have heavy legs in the last half of that game.

Edited November 11, 2019 by OccamsRazor

[ruxpin]

7 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I think alot of it could have something to do with fatigue I mean he went from college to the NHL so he isn't use to playing 3 games in four nights in the best league in the world.

 

But I agree too I'm not seeing any glaring deficit in his skating but then again I too am not a skating expert by any means but i did stay at a Holiday Inn once...

 

And I think the whole team seemed to have heavy legs in the last half of that game.

 

Yeah, last night was about fatigue.  It was noticeable with a lot of players.    And yeah, much heavier schedule in the NHL vs. college.   That's not going to be helped by going to the AHL.

[RonJeremy]

I dont know about any teams salary cap situation but would a team like Edmonton want a couple of guys like Voracek and Ghost?

[ruxpin]

2 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I dont know about any teams salary cap situation but would a team like Edmonton want a couple of guys like Voracek and Ghost?

 

On the ice, yeah, probably.   But they are right against the cap.   RNH could probably mitigate some of it if he came back, but he plays the wrong side.

 

I don't know how this happens mid-season.   Maybe at the deadline.    The salary cap kind of killed the "it's a Tuesday in December" trades that used to be kind of fun.

[CoachX]

Rux, i like your view on Seattle. I think keeping jake and exposing him makes the most sense. You create a space to jettison the dead weight, while protecting someone else. On the flip side, maybe by some miraculous surgical procedure, he figures oit how to remove his head from his ass. Its a win win considering your relaistic expectations have to be JUST making the playoffs

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

On the ice, yeah, probably.   But they are right against the cap.   RNH could probably mitigate some of it if he came back, but he plays the wrong side.

 

I don't know how this happens mid-season.   Maybe at the deadline.    The salary cap kind of killed the "it's a Tuesday in December" trades that used to be kind of fun.

 

Ok so who do you protect?

 

Hart

 

Giroux

Hayes

TK

Lindblom

Coots

Rubtsov

?????

 

Ivan

Sanheim

Meyers

 

That would be mine.

[ruxpin]

38 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok so who do you protect?

 

Hart

 

Giroux

Hayes

TK

Lindblom

Coots

Rubtsov

?????

 

Ivan

Sanheim

Meyers

 

That would be mine.

 

I don't know how it works well enough.   That list looks good to me.   Is Farabee eligible for the expansion draft?   Would he need to be protected?  If so, I think he fills the ????? for me.  Really kind of hope JVR is taken there, right?

[elmatus]

1 hour ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Ok so who do you protect?

 

Hart

 

Giroux

Hayes

TK

Lindblom

Coots

Rubtsov

?????

 

Ivan

Sanheim

Meyers

 

That would be mine.

 

Myers has no 'e' to his name. I'm not sure where this started.

 

As far as that list goes, it's a decent one I guess. I'm not very attached to Rubstov, but someone has to fill that spot. I definitely keep Jake over Rubstov without even a second thought. He has solid value in a trade -- why lose him for nothing? I probably keep Raffl over Rubstov too. No sense using up a protected slot on a guy who's never going to be picked up imo. Rubstov has been a non-factor so far. I can't imagine Seattle would want him.

 

In terms of what that would leave exposed, it's seems fair to guess that one of Niskanen or Gostisbehere would be picked up in this scenario. I'd hate to lose Niskanen with how well he's been playing, but my guess is that's who they'd choose. Even if he declines some, he's still likely to be more effective at the position overall than Gostisbehere. If Raffl is left exposed, they might opt for him. I see no point in exposing Raffl though. They could also opt for JVR I guess. I dunno. 

 

Hart

 

Giroux

Hayes

TK

Lindblom

Coots

Jake

Raffl / JVR

 

Ivan

Sanheim

Meyers

 

Likely drafted options: Niskanen, JVR / Raffl , Gostisbehere

 

Patrick would also be exposed. I'm not sure they'd want that gamble though.

Edited November 12, 2019 by elmatus

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 Is Farabee eligible for the expansion draft?

 

No he wouldn't need to be protected.

 

2 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Really kind of hope JVR is taken there, right?

 

I have to say i prefer them to take Jake....JVR has at least scored 30 goal and was on pace for 30 had he not got hurt.

 

JVR is  very deadly around the goal especially on the power play i think he will come around to scoring goals.

 

Right now i want Jake numero uno. I can live with Ghost on the bottom pair unless you can package him with Jake then i'm in for a solid return.

 

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

Myers has no 'e' to his name.

 

Yeah for whatever reason it corrects it on my phone to that...so sometimes i say f**k it they know who i mean.

 

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

I'm not very attached to Rubstov, but someone has to fill that spot.

 

Ey basically the only reason i did it he is a first round pick with some nice upside. He just turned 21 in June so i want to hold onto him.

 

And they can stash guys in the minors too.

 

And besides who else you going to protect?? Will Patrick come back?? If he does i would make him my 7th forward.

 

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

it's seems fair to guess that one of Niskanen or Gostisbehere would be picked up in this scenario.

 

Yes they could. But i would prefer Jake, Ghost or JVR in that order gets claimed.

 

But honestly i would pursue every avenue i could to trade those guys to other team even so as to not give Seattle very much to chose from.

 

This will take a lot of planning and phone calls. It won't be easy but i think it's doable.

 

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

If Raffl is left exposed, they might opt for him.

 

I agree it's that how Vegas got Bellemare?? Those utility guys are useful.

 

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

Patrick would also be exposed.

 

So you would huh....yeah i'm on the fence....but yeah i could be swayed either way by then.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, elmatus said:

Hart

 

Giroux

Hayes

TK

Lindblom

Coots

Jake

Raffl / JVR

 

Ivan

Sanheim

Meyers

 

Likely drafted options: Niskanen, JVR / Raffl , Gostisbehere

 

Patrick would also be exposed. I'm not sure they'd want that gamble though.

 

Hey wait a minute didn't you just correct me and then you put the "e" in there.... 

 

REPORTED!

Edited November 12, 2019 by OccamsRazor

[elmatus]

13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Hey wait a minute didn't you just correct me and then you put the "e" in there.... 

 

REPORTED!

 

Haha, I copy pasted from you actually, but yeah, you got me. 

[ruxpin]

3 hours ago, elmatus said:

 

In terms of what that would leave exposed, it's seems fair to guess that one of Niskanen

No need to protect Niskanen because he won't be under contract for 2021-22. In the unlikely event the team wants to resign him at 34 years old, they can wait until after the draft. If they sign him before and expose him, it'll only force Seattle to take a forward or goalie. 

[ruxpin]

I leave Jake exposed and risk it. In fact, I'd beg for it. He'll be 32 that summer with 3 years left at an $8.25M cap hit.  If Seattle wants that, let them have it.  If it forces them to take a Ghost instead, fine. 

 

Giroux is 33 1/2 then. I'm not arguing to expose him, but I'm not opposed, either. He'd only have one remaining year on his contract, so I don't know how you begin to leave the longest-tenured captain in franchise history exposed to an expansion draft, so you don't. 

 

Raffl, 32 then, won't need to be protected. His contract expires. Same with Laughton. If you want to extend Laughton, do it after the draft. 

 

So, 

7 forwards

Giroux

Hayes

JVR

Konecny

Lindblom 

Couturier

Patrick (or Twarynski if Patrick has been moved).

 

Provorov

Sanheim

Myers

 

Hart 

 

This is all assuming no free agent pick ups or player movement between now and then, of course. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by ruxpin

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

Giroux is 33 1/2 then. I'm not arguing to expose him, but I'm not opposed, either.

 

He must be protected due to his NMC same with Hayes.

[ruxpin]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He must be protected due to his NMC same with Hayes.

Right..good point. 

[Digityman]

13 hours ago, ruxpin said:

 

Not likely to happen, but possible.  I say that mostly because he's now been up over ten games and is burning his first year.

 

The other reason is because I strongly disagree about the skating.

He looked slower than most other on the ice and a step slower than what he needed to be often arriving late to the play.   Maybe it was fatigue.   Wednesday should be a good test for him with a few days off to recover.  

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, ruxpin said:

Right..good point. 

 

I seen where L.A. was wanting to move Tyler Toffoli and Martinez.

 

So i would offer this...

 

Toffoli (4.6 mill) only under contract this year and is a UFA

Martinez is under contract for next year at 4 mill.

 

moving 8.6 mill

 

for 

 

Voracek 4 more years at 8.25 mill

Gostisbehere 3 ore years at 4.5 mill

 

moving 12.75 mill

 

Kings have 6.6 mill in cap space.

 

Now Toffoli would have to sign an extension for me to consider this further.

 

Moving this would free up 4.15 mill for Flyers.

 

Sure they may be other deals but this one let's you get rid of two guys who are struggling and get a 27 RW back.

 

Gives the Kings two guys who are signed for a couple more years.

 

25 James van Riemsdyk - 28 Claude Giroux - 73 Tyler Toffoli
23 Oskar Lindblom - 14 Sean Couturier - 11 Travis Konecny
81 Carsen Twarynski - 13 Kevin Hayes - 49 Joel Farabee
10 Andy Andreoff - 12 Michael Raffl - 18 Tyler Pitlick

9 Ivan Provorov - 15 Matt Niskanen
27 Alec Martinez - 61 Justin Braun
6 Travis Sanheim - 5 Phil Myers

 

I don't think that is too bad right there. Sure might need to be some tweaking to make the compensation right on both sides.

 

But it isn't a bad deal for both sides.

[OccamsRazor]

11 minutes ago, Digityman said:

Maybe it was fatigue. 

 

Yeah he is the only 19 year old on the ice...the only kid on the ice who was in college where he played a grand total of 36 games.

 

And the guys in the AHL play 76 games and the ones coming from juniors plays around 60-70+ games.

 

So that is a huge leap in my mind. He's already played 15 plus games in NHL and AHL plus preseason basically already half a college season. 

[ruxpin]

39 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

I seen where L.A. was wanting to move Tyler Toffoli and Martinez.

 

So i would offer this...

 

Toffoli (4.6 mill) only under contract this year and is a UFA

Martinez is under contract for next year at 4 mill.

 

moving 8.6 mill

 

for 

 

Voracek 4 more years at 8.25 mill

Gostisbehere 3 ore years at 4.5 mill

 

moving 12.75 mill

 

Kings have 6.6 mill in cap space.

 

Now Toffoli would have to sign an extension for me to consider this further.

 

Moving this would free up 4.15 mill for Flyers.

 

Sure they may be other deals but this one let's you get rid of two guys who are struggling and get a 27 RW back.

 

Gives the Kings two guys who are signed for a couple more years.

 

25 James van Riemsdyk - 28 Claude Giroux - 73 Tyler Toffoli
23 Oskar Lindblom - 14 Sean Couturier - 11 Travis Konecny
81 Carsen Twarynski - 13 Kevin Hayes - 49 Joel Farabee
10 Andy Andreoff - 12 Michael Raffl - 18 Tyler Pitlick

9 Ivan Provorov - 15 Matt Niskanen
27 Alec Martinez - 61 Justin Braun
6 Travis Sanheim - 5 Phil Myers

 

I don't think that is too bad right there. Sure might need to be some tweaking to make the compensation right on both sides.

 

But it isn't a bad deal for both sides.

I really have zero interest in Tuffoli. It's definitely creative and a decent idea. I personally want no part of it. 

 

But more important than that, I'm thinking LA still has to shed and rebuild.  I don't know that bringing in an overpaid 30 year old paste eater qualifies. 

 

And I'm not looking to move the paste eater. We should get a decent return. IMO, Toffoli ain't it. 

 

This is hard, right?  

[OccamsRazor]

2 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

I really have zero interest in Tuffoli. It's definitely creative and a decent idea. I personally want no part of it. 

 

Well hard to counter comment on that without knowing why you don't care for him.

 

Back when LA was good he was a 30 goal scorer something Jake has never sniffed.

 

And it's well documented you hate and want to move the paste eater.

 

Only for you to contradict that with your last statement.

 

4 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

And I'm not looking to move the paste eater.

 

#confused

 

5 minutes ago, ruxpin said:

We should get a decent return.

 

And see this is why I was even apprehensive in the first place about making a suggestion in the first place for the reason someone woul shoot my offer down and then like usually here suggest no alternative solution expect to say "find another offer or get a better return".

 

Well yeah find me someone here who WOULD refuse a better return?

 

It's why I always hate throwing this stuff out there (and this isn't just for you but most posters here in general) they are quick to shoot someone else down and never throw there own offer out there so we can return the favor.

 

Hey it's early and my coffee hasn't kicked in.

 

Just trying to offer a solution for the issues they have by what I read might be available.

 

Carry on.

[jammer2]

On 11/10/2019 at 12:26 PM, Podein25 said:

 

This sounds funny, but I've come to the stage of my career as a Flyer fan where looking forward to watching those 3 is the highlight of my day. What a time to be alive.

 

Seriously, if Andreoff can put together a couple more games like that he can lock up a spot. I thought he was very good last night.

Andreoff is a nice story. If fans that knew the Flyers well were to pick 10 Phantoms that could/would make the jump to the NHL...I dont think he would be on any lists. We can use a nice dash of desperation around here...it might even be catchy?

[ruxpin]

26 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Well hard to counter comment on that without knowing why you don't care for him.

 

Back when LA was good he was a 30 goal scorer something Jake has never sniffed.

 

And it's well documented you hate and want to move the paste eater.

 

Only for you to contradict that with your last statement.

 

 

#confused

 

 

And see this is why I was even apprehensive in the first place about making a suggestion in the first place for the reason someone woul shoot my offer down and then like usually here suggest no alternative solution expect to say "find another offer or get a better return".

 

Well yeah find me someone here who WOULD refuse a better return?

 

It's why I always hate throwing this stuff out there (and this isn't just for you but most posters here in general) they are quick to shoot someone else down and never throw there own offer out there so we can return the favor.

 

Hey it's early and my coffee hasn't kicked in.

 

Just trying to offer a solution for the issues they have by what I read might be available.

 

Carry on.

Waiting for my car to defrost and my eye sight sucks. 

 

So, I'm looking to move Jake, but I want a return. A 32 year old meh defenseman and a meh winger ain't it

 

I get your not wanting to make a suggestion. I've been the same way. It's much easier in the role I'm filling at the moment. 

 

What your suggestion has going for it is that the money works and it cuts down the number of years we're on the hook.   And really, while I think Toffolli doesn't play too his capability, he would slide nicely into the 3rd line. Which is fine. 

 

Ultimately, it comes down--for me--to trading Jake just to trade Jake and not getting the value I think we should. And for a struggling team, I don't know why LA does this. 

 

It's a decent effort, though, especially considering there's no real great options at the moment. 

 

 

[jammer2]

On 11/10/2019 at 6:31 PM, elmatus said:

 

It's a hard sell though. I think anyone watching would say both TK and Farabee have been more impressive than him by a good margin. At the moment, he really is the third RW on the team. Can't fault AV for plugging him there. Not to mention that keeps him away from top competition, which may help reduce his turnover machine tendencies.

 

Personally, I really like the look of Giroux/Farabee together. I think Giroux should return to the wing of course, but plop Hayes between them and that would seem like a very solid and well-rounded line. Way better imo than Giroux and Voracek, who generally play best when they're away from each other anyway.

Nice post. I also think it's very important to keep Giroux and Farabee together. It really is the best way to get the most out of both of them. Farabee likes to muck it up, dig out pucks out of the corner, create turnovers. Throw in his smart passing, hockey sense and F will allow G to create and generate offense.

 I hope no one takes this literally, but Farabee actually reminds of a better skating version of a young Bobby Clarke. Not saying he will be that...but I see a LOT of similarities in their games. The kid is gonna be special and has AllStar upside. Ditto for Frost ( and Konency also !). I love the compete level our youngsters have... bodes well for REAL Flyers hockey to return....where we outworked and outhustled everything in our path. 

[elmatus]

2 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

I seen where L.A. was wanting to move Tyler Toffoli and Martinez.

 

So i would offer this...

 

Toffoli (4.6 mill) only under contract this year and is a UFA

Martinez is under contract for next year at 4 mill.

 

moving 8.6 mill

 

for 

 

Voracek 4 more years at 8.25 mill

Gostisbehere 3 ore years at 4.5 mill

 

I'm not opposed to the idea of Toffoli and Martinez. I just can't see LA wanting to trade for Voracek. 

 

Voracek is an established NHL player who, despite his warts, is nonetheless valuable as part of an NHL team. That said, his value is in the present, not the future. For a team like LA, who really should be eyeing a rebuild at this point, it makes very little sense to pick up a guy like Voracek. They're not making the playoffs this year unless they get lucky.

 

Besides, Toffoli and Voracek to me are a wash -- different players with different skills -- but a wash nonetheless. It would be a lateral move based on skill for an older player on the decline. I would consider it from a PHI standpoint, but I'm hard-pressed to think LA will be interested. 

 

The sad part is that, although we have largely soured on Voracek here, this year's Flyers is exactly the kind of team that can use a guy like Voracek. We should absolutely make the playoffs, and having a third RW with solid potential gives us more depth and options. Again, I'm by no means a Voracek fan, but in many ways the emergence of TK and Farabee makes him *more* valuable to us, not less. It means AV can ice Voracek on the third line, where he should face weaker competition. Sure, he won't produce as much with less minutes, but having three lines of depth is important in today's cap-based NHL.

 

Martinez for Ghost isn't a horrible idea though. I'm not sure they'd go for it, but it's not a horrible idea. Ghost is a good bit younger, and he can run their PP for the next 3-4 years. Despite his considerable skill level at 5v5, Doughty is not the greatest PP quarterback (this is coming from a huge Doughty fan).

Edited November 12, 2019 by elmatus