Game 20: Flyers at Penguins; 3/2/21 @ 7, NBCSP

[Howie58]

I do not see AV as the problem.  He is an activist and sincerely committed to holding people accountable.  

 

This is a strange season and COVID may be presenting operational "noise" that gets in the way of player development. That said, it impacts all teams.  

 

Last year's performance against MTL + NYI coupled with our Bruins experience this year--and PIT last night, tells me we have a tough time against top-tier forward talent.  These quick scores that leave our goalies exposed to high chance shots are troublesome.  

 

I am also a bit worried about Hart.  He may be playing different caliber opposition.  That said, the numbers difference with Moose raises some tough questions. 

 

We hoped for a porch-clearer with Morin. That isn't happening.  Friedman didn't have enough snarl.  Sanheim, Myers...TBD.  Braun may be good at stretches.  It is hard for me to figure this out. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

8 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Last year's performance against MTL + NYI coupled with our Bruins experience this year--and PIT last night, tells me we have a tough time against top-tier forward talent. 

 

It because the Flyer best players vs the better teams don't show up. It always has to be a group effort.

 

When is the last time they have had a Giroux or a Jake or a Hayes has had a Pastrnak like game vs one of those top teams?

 

It's been so long I can't even remember one.

 

So when you face a top team and their players show up and then the Flyer stars shrink well that to me tells me it isn't on the coach.

 

It's on the guys living the life and cashing the checks.

 

But when does it change?

 

When Giroux and Jake are just memories.

[OccamsRazor]

The last time Giroux even had a hat trick was April 2018.

 

The only hat trick Jake has ever had was February 2013.

 

Giroux's last hat trick vs a top opponent was vs Pittsburgh in 2012.

 

Let that sink in a minute. 

 

Coots is the only star on this team who show up nightly from the forwards.

[Howie58]

Perhaps.  From my vantage, we have "1-A" Centers....they are not gamebreakers. Coots is a superb 2-way. Hayes is similar.  I don't think we have a Clarke or Espo or Barzal.  Farabee may be a developing game-changer.  My gut says we need a "team effort" centered on forecheck, D, and G.  We might overpower some teams but that isn't going to happen every day.  

[Howie58]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

The last time Giroux even had a hat trick was April 2018.

 

The only hat trick Jake has ever had was February 2013.

 

Giroux's last hat trick vs a top opponent was vs Pittsburgh in 2012.

 

Let that sink in a minute. 

 

Coots is the only star on this team who show up nightly from the forwards.

Giroux's contract expires next year, which will be a real turning point for the franchise.  He will not be on his current salary via a re-signing.  He may not even stay here.  Jake is here through '23-'24 and I don't think he is either expansion draft material or trade bait.  So--I might say the burden to the team of those two anchors begins to diminish next year. That is little solace but the "core" issue begins to lessen a bit.  Jake's contract....yikes.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Howie58

[albertaflyer]

33 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

I do not see AV as the problem.  He is an activist and sincerely committed to holding people accountable.  

 

This is a strange season and COVID may be presenting operational "noise" that gets in the way of player development. That said, it impacts all teams.  

 

Last year's performance against MTL + NYI coupled with our Bruins experience this year--and PIT last night, tells me we have a tough time against top-tier forward talent.  These quick scores that leave our goalies exposed to high chance shots are troublesome.  

 

I am also a bit worried about Hart.  He may be playing different caliber opposition.  That said, the numbers difference with Moose raises some tough questions. 

 

We hoped for a porch-clearer with Morin. That isn't happening.  Friedman didn't have enough snarl.  Sanheim, Myers...TBD.  Braun may be good at stretches.  It is hard for me to figure this out. 

 

 

I'm not sure why people are so concerned about Hart. He's 22 years old. Typically goalies take a few years to figure the NHL out. Most guys don't get sniff of the NHL till there 23-24. I'm not sure in last nights game which goal he was suppose to stop. Maybe the first goal but he made a good move. It's not just Hart. They had a crazy stat on sports talk radio the other day of the top 15 goalies in the NHL this season how many weren't the starters for their teams.  I did take a look at NHL.com and its quite interesting. 

[albertaflyer]

21 minutes ago, Howie58 said:

Perhaps.  From my vantage, we have "1-A" Centers....they are not gamebreakers. Coots is a superb 2-way. Hayes is similar.  I don't think we have a Clarke or Espo or Barzal.  Farabee may be a developing game-changer.  My gut says we need a "team effort" centered on forecheck, D, and G.  We might overpower some teams but that isn't going to happen every day.  

Problem right now is Hayes is a none factor. He's either hot or cold. Right now he is doing nothing.

[mojo1917]

29 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

April 2018

This was a hat trick that secured a playoff spot vs the Rangers. 

it was pretty awesome, I don't think the Rangers sucked...did they? maybe, it was against the King though.

So i'll take exception to the he hasn't done anything since 2012 bit.

Also I would like to point out there are guys that play in the leauge their whole careers and don't even have 1 hat trick. So, just because our guys seem to give them up weekly doesn't make them a thing that happens for everyone.

It's rare. 

okay good talk.

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

This was a hat trick that secured a playoff spot vs the Rangers. 

it was pretty awesome, I don't think the Rangers sucked...did they? maybe, it was against the King though.

So i'll take exception to the he hasn't done anything since 2012 bit.

Also I would like to point out there are guys that play in the leauge their whole careers and don't even have 1 hat trick. So, just because our guys seem to give them up weekly doesn't make them a thing that happens for everyone.

It's rare. 

okay good talk.

 

 

 

It isn't about just hat tricks that was just one example I am talking about like Pasta did the other night and came out and dominated and carried his team.

 

When was the last time Giroux did that and just elevated everyone around him?

 

Exactly.

 

Awesome talk I'm ready for the next excuse and please with the other team gets paid too ****.

 

The Flyer have a choice to show up as well.

[mojo1917]

Very pleased to see almost everyone is taking last night's loss like it is the end of the goddamned world.

Definitely need to retool the whole thing, trade the guys fire the coaches, I dunno maybe sell the lease for the WFC.

I know the season is shortened so the games are more important.

 

However, I, more than most of you hate when our guys lose to those mother****ers. I hate that team from the time I was a wee lad. HATE... I cannot think of a stronger word. If I could I would use it.

However, if our guys keep their heads out of their asses long enough to not pass to the Pgh forwards I think maybe our guys stand a chance to win both games the rest of the week. 

Win some battles, win a period. It can happen. 

So far they've beaten the Pens 2 times, the Caps 1 time the Isles 2 times, they have only 1 loss vs the teamsI've mentioned. 

Those teams do not suck. 

I don't buy the shrinking vs hard competition narrative, mostly because it's not accurate. 

So we'll see how things go Thursday. 

 

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

It isn't about just hat tricks that was just one example I am talking about like Pasta did the other night and came out and dominated and carried his team.

 

When was the last time Giroux did that and just elevated everyone around him?

 

Exactly.

 

Awesome talk I'm ready for the next excuse and please with the other team gets paid too ****.

 

The Flyer have a choice to show up as well.

It's not an excuse it's the truth. 

The other teams have good players. Even the bad teams.

Giroux's game has changed, he's not the player he was as a young guy. 

The last time Giroux elevated the team around him was probably 2018 when he carried the team the whole season and was a Hart finalist, and a few times in the years before that. 

It is in the past but it's kind of the recent past. 

He's not worthless, he wins draws is a good two way player.

I can't help the team offered him a good contract and he signed it. 

 

 

Pastarnak is a top player and he's going great.  He's going to make big bank, probably sign a big contract that at the end will look bad, I don't know what to tell you, it's the nature of the salary cap era.

I know it burns your porkbelly. 

 

 

 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

It's not an excuse it's the truth. 

The other teams have good players. Even the bad teams.

Giroux's game has changed, he's not the player he was as a young guy. 

The last time Giroux elevated the team around him was probably 2018 when he carried the team the whole season and was a Hart finalist, and a few times in the years before that. 

It is in the past but it's kind of the recent past. 

He's not worthless, he wins draws is a good two way player.

I can't help the team offered him a good contract and he signed it. 

 

 

Pastarnak is a top player and he's going great.  He's going to make big bank, probably sign a big contract that at the end will look bad, I don't know what to tell you, it's the nature of the salary cap era.

I know it burns your porkbelly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you say so. It must be.

[tucson83]

4 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

If you say so. It must be.

 

if i had to say when was the last time a player dominated for us for multiple seasons and in the playoffs was eric lindros.

[OccamsRazor]

40 minutes ago, tucson83 said:

 

if i had to say when was the last time a player dominated for us for multiple seasons and in the playoffs was eric lindros.

 

Danny Briere and Giroux where very good in the 2010 playoffs.

 

Danny B's performance was the best i have ever witnessed in the playoffs for the Flyers.

[OccamsRazor]

With this defense needing a boost i just for the life of me can't figure out why this kid didn't get a chance to play defense for a few games...

 

 

...why can't kid's work on their game you know during a game???

 

God forbid he proves useful...

[CoachX]

20 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

The Pens don't suck and to beat them you have to play well

And there it is!

 

This has not, and most likely, will not happen

[CoachX]

15 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

It's not an excuse it's the truth. 

The other teams have good players. Even the bad teams.

Giroux's game has changed, he's not the player he was as a young guy. 

The last time Giroux elevated the team around him was probably 2018 when he carried the team the whole season and was a Hart finalist, and a few times in the years before that. 

It is in the past but it's kind of the recent past. 

He's not worthless, he wins draws is a good two way player.

I can't help the team offered him a good contract and he signed it. 

 

 

Pastarnak is a top player and he's going great.  He's going to make big bank, probably sign a big contract that at the end will look bad, I don't know what to tell you, it's the nature of the salary cap era.

I know it burns your porkbelly. 

 

 

 

 

 

You can yell as loud as you want. But in the end, all your posts are based on hope and circumstance

 

The Flyers keep losing important games/series at the most important times, against the best talent

 

So unless, they manage a miracle, your POV will never come to fruition. 

 

This is a simple debate of emotion vs. objectivity

[mojo1917]

31 minutes ago, CoachX said:

And there it is!

 

This has not, and most likely, will not happen

They've beaten them twice this season.

One of our guys had a hat trick.

Edited March 4, 2021 by mojo1917

[mojo1917]

9 minutes ago, CoachX said:

This is a simple debate of emotion vs. objectivity

Well you got me there.

I am a fan

 

I have to be super critical in my vocation. I have to see every detail, every misplaced tchotcke in the background, every weird expression during a performance. 

Every jackass waving or beeping as they drive by, I have to notice that and adjust my mis en scene to suit.

So when I'm not working I don't care to apply that level of scrutiny to the entertainment I choose. I like the Flyers, they've been mostly good for most of my life. 

Even when they're bad they're not terrible. Like my baseball team which is the Baltimore Orioles. 

You are right, I am optimistic. 

I choose to not find every fault I can in a thing I enjoy and that I also have zero control over. 

I don't have unreal expectations, I don't have ulcers either. 

 

 

 

 

 

[CoachX]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

They've beaten them twice this season.

 

Good point. 

 

That was the first 2 games of the season. Since then they have lost 5 straight to BOS, with Hart in goal 4 of those games. He also has a 6-1 defeat against Buffalo

 

Moose is in net tonight.  If he wins, is there a goalie controversy facing the team? 

[mojo1917]

22 minutes ago, CoachX said:

You can yell as loud as you want.

the only time I yelled was when I said I hate the Penguins.

[mojo1917]

1 minute ago, CoachX said:

Moose is in net tonight.  If he wins, is there a goalie controversy facing the team?

 

I don't know, I think a wise person rolls with the hot hand. So if Moose keeps playing lights out, why not play him?

Can Elliott hold up health wise if he is to become the 1A rather than the 1B? Also there is a lot of hockey to be played in the next 6 weeks. I think both guys will see plenty of work based on the number of back to backs now in the schedule

 

I don't think there is a true controversy because of the ages of the players.

People may want to see Elliott starting and they'd be have the numbers and eye test on their side to support the argument. 

Only the dumbest of asses pulls the plug on Hart based on one middling season. Carey Price struggled early, so did MAF I think, Hart comes out of this a better player. 

 

 

[OccamsRazor]

21 minutes ago, CoachX said:

If he wins, is there a goalie controversy facing the team? 

 

No. For two reasons the goals Hart let in last game were very hard to stop a few impossible.

 

Two because Elliott is where he needs to be doing what he needs to be doing giving Hart some rest and playing well when he gets the chance and remember we don't want to break him. He's 35 and should be played as such.

 

Hart is the man. Period.

[CoachX]

Im not suggesting pulling the plug in him permanently. Im saying that he is getting thumped pretty soundly in key games this season. If Elliott is hot hand, and you go with him, does it jack Hart up long term? 

 

This is much like the discussion of Coots. Are his best years going to be overshadowed by being on a bad team? Is Hart going to be emotionally/mentally damaged by the same thing?

 

Its something Im worried about

[OccamsRazor]

20 minutes ago, CoachX said:

If Elliott is hot hand, and you go with him, does it jack Hart up long term? 

 

 

Not sure. But that is why I am not even going to ride Elliott. Hart has the pedigree for the job.

 

He needs to play through his adversity.

 

There will be ups and downs.

 

It comes with the crease especially with the suspect defense in front of him.

 

He can take it he has a shrink to help him through this.

 

They just have to continue to show faith in him.

 

Put him in the best situation to succeed is all they can do.

 

Giving him a savy vet for he and his fellow young defenseman would be huge.

 

But will Chuckles do this? Or will he just pretend to get him help...like Gustafsson was suppose to be?