pilldoc

43 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

All of those teams are still in the division. They still play them a lot.

 

The problem is that the Flyers have just flat out sucked for so long that no one takes them the least bit seriously, certainly not as a "rival."

 

Imagine declaring a "rival" being a team that has missed the playoffs for four years straight and has one playoff round win in over a decade.

 

To wit, the Bruins are the Maple Leaves' rival, but the Leaves are a "I don't think about you at all" to the Bruins...

Yup …. You are not wrong…

Don’t forget… for several years the Caps were in a different division entirely…

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

 

Why do you suppose this is the case?

 

I understand teams go through cycles of being good and those cycles don't always line up, Red Wings Avalanche was appointment viewing in the late 90s and 00's. 

Has the new division structure and scheduling sapped even the geographical rivalries?

The AHL still does home and home games, and game 2 is always a doozy, in the NHL there are maybe 2 of those a season now. Familiarity breeds contempt and the NHL doesn't have that anymore because let's send the east coast teams on a 10-day road trip to the west coast, twice a year.

The NBA-ification of hockey hasn't helped grow the game. I think it has neutered some of the best things about the sport. 

 

Excellent post ......  yeah the loss of the B2B (home & home) games has certainly eaten away at some of the rivalries .....

I think the new division structure certainly has influenced some of the rivalries .....   Face it the Flyers vs. Blue Jackets/Canes certainly pales in comparison to the the stellar/epic match-ups of Flyers vs. Caps/Devils/Rangers/Pens of yesteryear.

Great question ....

You quantified it by using the term "today" ....

Flyers vs. Pens always had a PO type atmosphere and the shear distain for Crosby ...... echos of "We don't like you" still bring a smile to my face during that PO series.....

Has kind of waned a bit since the Flyers have been a middling team for the past few years .....

Yeah ... I can see a Boston / Florida rivalry for some time now going forward ..........

Miss the old days ....

Philly vs. the whole Patrick Division .....   

34 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I hope they can get Lindstrom..or to a lesser extent, Iginla.

Sadly Lindstrom will probably be top 5 ...there is no way he drops to #12

Most experts have Iginla going to Calgary where his dad played.  If the Flyers truly covet him, then they might have to trade up in order to draft him.  Again ...unless there is a HUGE run on D-men, I see the Flyers just missing out on Iginla.

Here are his rankings as of Monday:

32 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Bobby Mac already has a new ranking, Eisermann is 13th on it.

 

 

 

MCKENZIE'S LOTTERY EDITION DRAFT RANKING

 

 

 

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	POS	HT	WT	GP	G	P
1	Macklin Celebrini	Boston U (NCAA)	C	6'0	190	38	32	64
2	Ivan Demidov	St. Petersburg (MHL)	RW/C	5'11	181	30	23	60
3	Anton Silayev	Nizhny Novgorod (KHL)	D	6'7	211	63	3	11
4	Artyom Levshunov	Michigan State (NCAA)	D	6'2	209	38	9	35
5	Cayden Lindstrom	Medicine Hat (WHL)	C	6'3	210	32	27	46
6	Sam Dickinson	London (OHL)	D	6'3	194	68	18	70
7	Zayne Parekh	Saginaw (OHL)	D	6'0	181	66	33	96
8	Zeev Buium	Denver (NCAA)	D	6'0	183	42	11	50
9	Konsta Helenius	Jukurit (SM Liiga)	C	5'11	181	51	14	36
10	Tij Iginla	Kelowna (WHL)	LW	6'0	185	64	47	84
11	Berkly Catton	Spokane (WHL)	C	5'11	163	68	54	116
12	Carter Yakemchuk	Calgary (WHL)	D	6'3	194	66	30	71
13	Cole Eiserman	USA NTDP (USHL)	LW	6'0	196	56	57	88
14	Beckett Sennecke	Oshawa (OHL)	RW	6'2	181	63	27	68
15	Trevor Connelly	Tri-City (USHL)	LW	6'1	161	52	31	78

 

 

yes... I know ... i was trying to copy and paste and had to reboot my computer ...you beat me too it...

thanks

3 minutes ago, radoran said:

 

With this criteria, I could almost have been a 40-goal scoring winger in the NHL. 30, surely.

 

and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night

From Hockey Writers .....

Rankings

• NHL Central Scouting: 8^th (among NA skaters)
• Future Considerations: 13^th
• Peter Baracchini’s March Rankings: 10^th
• Logan Horn’s February Rankings: 5^th
• Andrew Forbes’ February Rankings: 4^th
• SMAHT Scouting: 3^rd
• Bob McKenzie’s Rankings: 4^th
• Dobber Prospects Mid-Season Rankings: 16th
• Recruit Scouting: 9th

@flyercanuck

Totally agree with your thoughts here.  You want players who are rising through the season not falling.  He is falling for a reason.  I trust these scouts who watch them day in and out.  The Flyers need a legit #1 center.  If he is there at #12 you have to draft that player before I would draft Cole.  I am just scared of JVR 2.0 here.

1 hour ago, hmc687 said:

Flyers need to do whatever they can to draft Cole Eiserman. I know center is a big need too but the team is still missing raw talent and skill and this kid has such an exceptional shot. And he's not Caufield 2.0 so here's to hoping they dont pass on Eiserman

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

Maybe he slips a little because of that, he's not a great skater either so maybe he's around at 12?

When I see skating being an issue, it always diminishes a prospect in my mind.

Also, the word passivity in the Hockey Writers scouting report is not great to see either. JvR was passive- despite above average everything else and we all hated that guy.

agree with @mojo1917 here ...

I have been some early stages of research and have heard his name pop up a bit ....

Per many sources ...no denying his lethal shot and potential play making ability.

"If there’s one thing that has stayed consistent — and lethal — in Eiserman’s game, it’s his shot. Now just 10 goals away from the US National Team Development Program’s all-time goal record, he continues to prove that he has the most dangerous shot of anyone in this year’s draft class. In 45 games this season with the National Team Development Program (NTDP), he’s tallied 48 goals and 73 total points."

"He can, and will, shoot from anywhere in the offensive zone with pinpoint accuracy, showcasing his deadly and deceptive release en route to beating the opposing goalie cleanly. He can release the puck in extremely tight spaces, using his supple hands to quickly toe-drag release around defenders; he doesn’t need to be open to be a goal-scoring threat, though he is also excellent at reading the defense in-zone and finding open shooting lanes for himself. In addition to his shot, he’s a hard worker on and off the ice, not being afraid to play with a smidge of snarl and grit along the boards in order to win pucks back for himself."

This is all good ... I am certainly not going to deny that ......

Here is the part that gives me much concern ....

 "he’s got some room to improve on many facets of his game, hence his significant drop-off in draft position projection. While he’s a decent playmaker, his passing capabilities are nothing to write home about. He struggles at times to find open space when carrying the puck while not in a shooting lane and thus is prone to losing it to defensemen rather than prolonging offensive zone time by finding available teammates.

His skating is another major pain point in his game — he’s sporting neither quick acceleration nor high-end top speed, and it costs him in a rush-style offense and in transition. There’s no denying his skill in a cycle offense; he’s great at finding space to shoot when he doesn’t have possession of the puck and has a quick-fire trigger from tight spaces which can and should be considered a coveted asset. At the same time, his struggles with straight-line speed and acceleration don’t project particularly well to a rush-style system that’s reliant on speedy breakouts and capitalizing on odd-man rushes.

Perhaps the bigger issue here is his lack of ability in transition. As a passenger player, his game projects fairly well: find space, get the puck, shoot, and score. As of right now, though, he isn’t going to be a player who brings the puck from zone to zone, and that’s a major issue in today’s speed-centric NHL. His speed makes it easier for defenders to poke-check the puck away from him while attempting a zone entry, and his lack of agility doesn’t help his case transitionally either.

Finally, there are some concerns with his defensive play. Naturally, as a goal-scoring threat, he shouldn’t necessarily be expected to be a high-quality defender, but it’s on the borderline of being a liability. He has some lethargy away from the puck, though he is, generally speaking, a hard worker — I think it’s a processing-speed issue with defensive positioning more than I believe that he doesn’t have a desire to make a defensive impact."

“While his shot, offensive routes, and ability to release in tight space continue to be top-of-the-class strengths, it’s simply not enough. A lack of overall engagement, poor decision-making, a lack of explosive skating, and an overall passivity have regularly marred viewings.” – David Saad, Dobber Prospects

Rachel Doerrie - ESPN - April 2nd: "Scouts raised concerns that he would "disappear" when he wasn't scoring, and his stock has declined because of it. There is no denying his ability to score, but he'll need to continue to develop his instincts and decision-making in college to score at the NHL level."

Scott Wheeler - The Athletic - March 25th: "He can get carried away trying to do too much, stickhandling into trouble or shooting into shin pads. The play selection and habits definitely need some work, and have led to many understandably lowering him outside the top-five range I still have him in (though I am less sure about it than I thought I'd be)."

There are several who praise him .....

“Eiserman is constantly making an impact each shift he is out there for. In the offensive zone, he is a good forechecker, will fight for pucks down low and in the corners. Eiserman will rely on his reach to stick-lift attackers and force a disruption in oppositional puck possession. He has good puck manipulation and will use it to draw in attackers and then quickly pass underneath the stick to an open teammate. Eiserman has an excellent shot, especially from range.” – Josh Tessler, SMAHT Scouting

Sam Cosentino - Sportsnet - March 13th: "The hardest thing to do in hockey is score, and he’s doing that at an elite level."

Steven Ellis - Daily Faceoff - March 9th: "Eiserman’s shot is as elite as it gets at this level, allowing him to put pucks in the net from just about anywhere. He also loves to throw hits too as an absolute competitor."

Peter Baracchini - The Hockey Writers - March 7th: "You can’t deny the fact that he’s got a dangerous release and accuracy. However, there are some concerns with his off the puck play and ability to be engaging can be very inconsistent."

Mike Morreale - NHL.com - March 1st: "Eiserman (6-0, 197) has one of the best shots of any player in the draft class and doesn't shy from utilizing that big asset every shift from anywhere in the offensive end."

NHL Potential

As I alluded to earlier, it’s become increasingly difficult to project Eiserman’s translation to the NHL. On one hand, his shot in and of itself is already top-of-an-NHL-lineup quality and he could very well fix the issues he has with his game in a year or two outside of the NHL. On the other, he didn’t really improve those facets of his game all that much since first debuting with the NTDP in 2022-23, and may never reach the point where he has multiple dimensions to his game. I’m bullish on Eiserman, though, and think that he will be a top-six, goal-scoring winger for many, many years. He has legitimate 40-plus goal potential if he develops correctly and gets paired with the right playmaking center.

Cole Eiserman – NHL Draft Projection

His stagnancy in improving his game has left him a near-impossibility to predict, though he’s undoubtedly going to be a top-half selection as a byproduct of his incredible shot. Rankings have him anywhere from third overall to 16th, and there isn’t really a particular directional skew of that wide range, either. I would guess that he drops well past the second-overall rank he’s garnered for years and gets selected in the 8-12 range.

I would say he is an enigma ....  If the Flyers didn't have so many other holes I would be ok with a pick like this.  However if he turns out more to be JVR like then we will all be disappointed..

Danny and company, IMHO, have to nail this pick .....  Though Cole seems very attractive, I do have some legit concerns ....

https://thehockeywriters.com/cole-eiserman-2024-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

 

agree ......

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

They're still getting a really good player to add to their young arsenal. While we twiddle our thumbs and stand by "WE NEVER REBUILD!"...like NOT winning Stanley Cups is some kind of honor.

Bingo .....

and they will continue to get good young talent with all the draft capital they have .....

7 picks this year in the first 3 rounds alone ...more than enough to move up if they see a player they really like ......

note the difference between the Hawks and Flyers ....

The Panthers pick will be a late 1st ......

OK ... I edited the title ....

Confirmed ...Flyers will pick at #12 for the upcoming NHL 2024 Entry Draft ......

25 minutes ago, radoran said:

I've spent a decade watching a middling, bubble playoff team.

 

It sucks. It has sapped my enthusiasm for the organization.

 

Not the sport. I am watching great hockey in the playoffs this year.

 

My team hasn't played great hockey for over a decade.

 

This year was better in that they seemed to be taking the right path - not "make the playoffs and anything can happen" but more of what @TropicalFruitGirl26 is talking about in terms of putting a deep team together on the ice and hoping it puts it all together.

 

Professional sports teams should be trying to win games. And the grit and determination can be a great attribute and endearing to see.

 

But it all comes down to the goal of winning games and that is winning a championship. If your goal is to be entertained, then bully for you. I'm entertained watching hockey teams trying to win championships.

 

It's the fundamental difference between the Lightning and the Wild. The Bolts got Stamkos and Hedman as 1/2 picks. The Wild got Parise and Suter as prized free agents.

 

The Bolts won two Cups. The Wild bought out Parise and Suter.

 

The path to legitimate competitive championship hockey goes through the draft. The game has fundamentally changed.

 

It may come down to time and perspective. I'm happier watching a team reach the playoffs with a legit shot to win it all - even if they don't.

 

2010 was a nice run, but exactly the Fool's Gold that @yave1964 mentions this year could have been for the Wings making the playoffs.

 

The Flyers had legitimately built a young talented core and set them up for a decade of competitive hockey. They then saw themselves as thisclose having gotten to the Final and impatiently blew the whole damn thing up and embarked on the worst decade of hockey in organizational history ALL THE WHILE insisting they were "definitely a playoff team."

 

No thanks.

 

You BUILD a winning team, you don't BUY it any more. And that building starts with drafting. When a team starts with 1/2 picks and adds to that with mid level picks as they grow - AND makes shrewd moves - you wind up with something that resembles the Panthers.

 

If the Flyers want to be the Islanders, Wild, Preds level team then they will get what "giving your team the best shot at the playoffs" got the Preds this year.

 

You don't INTENTIONALLY lose, but you don't strive for mediocrity. Otherwise you sit and watch other franchises move up and down past you.

 

YMMV.

 

16 minutes ago, RBGordie said:

Samsonov was NOT the reason they lost in game 7 though. He was great. You can't blame him for this loss. 

He might not have been THE reason for Game 7 loss, but he was ONE OF THE reasons the Leafs lost the series ....along with the 3 headless horseman as @ruxpin mentions

Breakdown of Samsonov 5 games in PO .....

On paper it appears that Woll is the better goalie and moving forward the Leafs might roll with Woll next year.  As has been reported many times, Woll, who started for the Maple Leafs in their wins in Games 5 and 6, was a late scratch due to an undisclosed injury. So the Leafs obviously wanted Woll in Game 7.  Now I did not see the entire game, but it appears Samsonov kept the Leafs in the entire game and however that does not excuse his being 1-3 in the series with a 3.31 goals-against average and .883 save percentage.

Again ..the Leafs have some tough choices coming up .....

1 hour ago, ruxpin said:

The problem is they have so much money tied up in the three headless horsemen and Tavares that they really don't have the money for a top flight goalie.

For those playing at home .....  this is A LOT of coin ....

In addition they don't have enough for even a decent defense ...

outside of Reilly  ....  the blue line is going to be thin.....

oh .. .and you mentioned about goalies ...  here is that situation ....

Is Woll good enough to handle the reigns himself?  

But yes ...totally agree ..the Leafs have ~52.5 million (out of ~87 million) invested in 5 players ..... that is ~60%

All 5 fell way short during PO.

Matthew* (1G, 3A) = 4 PTS

Nylander** (3G, 0A) = 3 PTS

Reilly (0G, 3A) = 3 PTS

Tavares (1G, 1A) = 2 PTS

Marner (1G, 2A) = 3 PTS

*played in 5 games out of 7

** played in 4 games out of 7

So considering what the Leafs are paying these guys ...their collective ROI is failling the Leafs during the PO.  

Their off season will be interesting .....

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

I hear you can treat that with penicillin.

 

More things change .... the more they stay the same ...... 

It's been confirmed that the playoffs are Kryptonite to the Leaf's.  I hear the fat lady starting to warm up on Toronto.

Out of all playoff teams, only the Islanders and Capitals had fewer regulation wins than the Leafs. This current era of Leaf players have never won a Division Title. Not once. They've never even sniffed at the President's Trophy. And yet for some reason Leaf fans are surprised when they fail in the playoffs.

The clock is about to strike midnight once again on the Leafs .......

So ......

The Flyers will be picking at #12 for the upcoming 2024 NHL Entry Level Draft.  Who are some of the players that could potentially be in play?  Who would you like to see.  Position of need most of us would agree a 1C and a legit 1st pair D-Man.

Here are some of the top Centers available this year .....

I think you can safetly kiss Celebrini / Demidov / Lindstrom off the list unless the Flyers win the Lottery and pick #2.  Regardless, Celebrini will not be a Flyer.

Depending how the draft unfolds, Catton might be in play.  I think at #12 Iginla / Helenius would be potential picks if available.

As far as D-men .....

I know this draft is heavy on D-Men.  Any names that stick out?  I have seen Levshunov / Dickinson and Parekh drafted high in mock drafts ...Don't know much about them.

Again Thoughts?

We will know more once the Lottery is completed ......

9 minutes ago, radoran said:

Oh, and before @flyercanuck gets here you also have to have second rounders...

what are these picks called 2nd rounders????

And that’s a wrap…. With the Pens / Caps / and Red Wings all winning tonight… this pretty much assures the Flyers of not making the postseason.

53 minutes ago, FD19372 said:

I want bonus hockey aka playoffs for this team, but I also realize they're a one and done. Honestly, I would rather they have a chance to win the draft lottery, and be somehow able to pick first. It is so Flyers, that they fight their a*ses off ..only to play for a little over a week, in the playoffs.

unless they can miraculously finish 11th...not gonna happen.

2 hours ago, radoran said:

Actual footage of the Pens, Isles, Wings, Caps, and Flyers on the bubble.

 

Outstanding! 

Caps / Isles / Pens all have 1 game in hand

Flyers lose to Caps they are done.

Flyers win vs. Caps -> still need alot of help and alot of things to go right.

Flyers DO NOT CONTROL THEIR OWN DESTINY for any playoff spot .....