Fizz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, radoran said: Right the whole point that a top FA hasn't come here in 10 years is completely irrelevant. Go on... Has there been a decent GM in Philly in 10+ years? I'll wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Just now, Fizz said: Has there been a decent GM in Philly in 10+ years? I'll wait. So you're saying this isn't a franchise players and coaches want to come to? Yeah, good point. It's exactly the one I was making... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, radoran said: So you're saying this isn't a franchise players and coaches want to come to? Yeah, good point. It's exactly the one I was making... No I'm saying a good GM would have no problem bringing top players here. Not over paying for players beyond their prime. Case and point, trading Myers and Patrick for Ellis. Now Ellis is another big contract with the player on the downside of his career. Then Nashville flip Patrick to LV for Cody Glass. Pretty sure you would have liked to see Glass in a Flyers uniform. Not? Trading away Ghost and picks for nothing another idiotic Fletcher move. AV was using him wrong like AV was using a lot of players wrong. Not even trying to talk to Quinville was a huge mistake even if he was 99% going to Florida. You always try to bring in the best you can, if you are settling you aren't doing your job. I will give you this though. The Flyers are trying to GM like there is no Salary Cap in a Salary Cap league. Best conversation I've had on here in a long time....cheers. Edited December 20, 2021 by Fizz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Fizz said: No I'm saying a good GM would have no problem bringing top players here. Not over paying for players beyond their prime. Top players don't reach UFA often. After the past 10 years there's nothing attracting top players to Philadelphia. As long as Holmgren/Clarke are in charge we're stuck with where they are. As we have been for a couple decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, radoran said: Top players don't reach UFA often. After the past 10 years there's nothing attracting top players to Philadelphia. As long as Holmgren/Clarke are in charge we're stuck with where they are. As we have been for a couple decades. Clarke and Holmgren are dinosaurs of the old NHL and shouldn't be in charge of anything, on this we agree. Not sure why Comcast is keeping them around, I guess that happens when the team owner (Comcast) don't know hockey from their arseholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Fizz said: Clarke and Holmgren are dinosaurs of the old NHL and shouldn't be in charge of anything, on this we agree. Not sure why Comcast is keeping them around, I guess that happens when the team owner (Comcast) don't know hockey from their arseholes. This is THE problem and amplified by ol' Fletch. They don't feel the need to change the idea that being a bubble playoff team and "anything can happen" Until they do they are a mediocre team with middling draft picks. The hockey world in general knows this. This is not a franchise players "want to come to" anymore... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 11 hours ago, Fizz said: players with no-trade-clauses in their contracts The only one with a complete no movement clause is Giroux. Atkinson and Hayes both have teams they CAN'T be traded too (10 teams for Cam 12 teams for Hayes). Yandle has a no trade clause which just means he can't be traded anywhere without his agreement. But you can skirt around all of them i believe you just have to find a taker.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: The only one with a complete no movement clause is Giroux. And that's a gift from Holmgren. To your point about being able to get around NTCs, Atkinson's no trade clause was given to him by Columbus - before they traded him... Hayeseyseys' no movement clause prevents him from being sent to the AHL. In addition to his 12 team no trade list, his contract and play prevents him from being traded... Edited December 20, 2021 by radoran 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 11 hours ago, Fizz said: No I'm saying a good GM would have no problem bringing top players here. I think you could be right....really really really wish we could test that theory....like ASAP i am not getting any younger despite getting better looking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, radoran said: his contract and play prevents him from being traded... Yes as of what we have seen lately this be the case. Four more year at 7.1 mill after this one is going to take a gross overpayment to get some team to take that - unless you offer to pick up about 2-3 mill per season of it then ship him out. I still hold out hope (i know please let me have this one) that Chuckles can pick the phone up call the two teams his cousins are on and work something out with one of them - to reunite the family - desperation request...but all we have left at this bleak point. And yes before some chimes in most of us all knew the implications when he was signed and well here we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, OccamsRazor said: I think you could be right....really really really wish we could test that theory....like ASAP i am not getting any younger despite getting better looking... Another problem with that theory is that "top players" don't move by free agency much any more. The biggest recent example is probably Panarin but after that what's a good example of an impact player moving in free agency in the last ten years? Most teams trade a guy for assets rather than losing him for nothing. I suppose you could go Tavares or Bobrovsky but neither of them gave any indication they wanted to come to Philadelphia. There is the example of Suter and Parise that Homer screwed up royally in pursuing and lost anyway. They got Weber to sign a huge offer sheet that can't be offered today - and didn't get the player. And they had to overpay Hayes and likely overpaid JVR. There is just no evidence that players are lining up for the opportunity to play for a franchise with one playoff round win in ten years. None. And they can't really afford to make an $11M offer anyway... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, radoran said: The biggest recent example is probably Panarin but after that what's a good example of an impact player moving in free agency in the last ten years? Only one i can think of is Pieter Angelo off the top of my head. But yes team don't move the good players unless it is for an overpayment and they certainly don't usually let them just walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 23 minutes ago, radoran said: Hayeseyseys' no movement clause prevents him from being sent to the AHL. In addition to his 12 team no trade list, his contract and play prevents him from being traded... They could retain some of his salary couldn't they? If the acquiring team could have Hayes with a $4.5 cap hit maybe that sparks some interest. As you said his play isn't so good right now but by the TD maybe he's back to his awesome 45-pt. self. What about buying him out? I know that would be embarrassing to the Flyers, to Fletcher but there's no rule against it is there? Teams can buy out players at any time AFAIK. I just want Hayes gone I still can't believe Fletcher gave his guy $50mil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmatus Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, GratefulFlyers said: They could retain some of his salary couldn't they? If the acquiring team could have Hayes with a $4.5 cap hit maybe that sparks some interest. As you said his play isn't so good right now but by the TD maybe he's back to his awesome 45-pt. self. What about buying him out? I know that would be embarrassing to the Flyers, to Fletcher but there's no rule against it is there? Teams can buy out players at any time AFAIK. I just want Hayes gone I still can't believe Fletcher gave his guy $50mil. They'd have to retain salary for sure. That's exactly what Fletch should try to do in fact, and he should try to do it right now. Don't wait until he's even further down the hole. Call teams up and start talking shop. It shouldn't be hard to sell the idea that he's a reasonable mid-six centre at $4.5M. In fact, that's probably exactly what he's worth. Do it and move on before he becomes completely immoveable. Edited December 20, 2021 by elmatus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 3 hours ago, radoran said: Hayeseyseys' no movement clause prevents him from being sent to the AHL. In addition to his 12 team no trade list, his contract and play prevents him from being traded... Imagine an NHL player who just signed a 7 year $50 million contract even thinking he'd need a clause saying they can't send him down to the AHL? And THAT is the guy you want to build your team around. PS, love the extended version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 21 hours ago, radoran said: Another problem with that theory is that "top players" don't move by free agency much any more. The biggest recent example is probably Panarin but after that what's a good example of an impact player moving in free agency in the last ten years? Most teams trade a guy for assets rather than losing him for nothing. I suppose you could go Tavares or Bobrovsky but neither of them gave any indication they wanted to come to Philadelphia. Top players don't make it to UFA often at all and when they do, it's probably 50-50 that it works out for the signing team. I would bet Toronto would rather have $11M in cap space than Tavares at this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OccamsRazor Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 11:28 AM, GratefulFlyers said: If the acquiring team could have Hayes with a $4.5 cap hit maybe that sparks some interest. Yes this will be your only chance to trade him picking up salary. I would be listening to this offer. On 12/20/2021 at 11:28 AM, GratefulFlyers said: What about buying him out? I admit i haven't looked at what that would look like but i think i'd prefer the pick up salary option hands down so it would be over quicker. Unless they prefer to have a buyout to go with Bryz's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Ah I was only dreaming anyway. No way does Fletcher even consider moving Hayes. If Fletcher gets the axe…maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrittyForever Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 On 12/19/2021 at 7:38 PM, radoran said: Hextall signed JVR. No, really. Go on... I always wondered about that move. Hextall came in and fixed the salary cap mess, stocked the prospect cupboard, seemed to be drafting well (at the time) and then suddenly back to massive cash dumps on the overrated. Seemed to go against his plan and I always wondered if he was pressured from above to make a big name signing and "win now" or something. Definitely screwed that move for sure. Of the old guys, Clarke I get, he's a god in Philly and he will always have a role even if it's just a figurehead, but why Holmgren? Idiot as a player. Idiot as a GM, idiot now. Never understood this and never will. As for who to put in charge idk. Rutherford might have been good but Vancouver got him. Rick Dudley would be good as a senior uber boss but that won't work with the bunch of seniors already there. Karamanos would be interesting if you could steal him away from Buffalo by promoting him. Or, Danny Briere, as a long shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 6 hours ago, GrittyForever said: I always wondered about that move. Hextall came in and fixed the salary cap mess, stocked the prospect cupboard, seemed to be drafting well (at the time) and then suddenly back to massive cash dumps on the overrated. Seemed to go against his plan and I always wondered if he was pressured from above to make a big name signing and "win now" or something. Definitely screwed that move for sure. I don't think we will ever know the truth re: that specific move, but absolutely Hextall's entire strategy to retool while still trying to compete was directed by the organization's refusal to accept a rebuild. If Hextall were going to do an actual rebuild, he would have traded guys like G and Simmons in their primes and really restocked the farm system. I can sort of understand the JVR move. It seemed at the time the Flyers were starting to turn things around and needed firepower. But once again the Flyers overestimated their station in the world and they weren't actually ready to take another step. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 9 hours ago, GrittyForever said: massive cash dumps on the overrated Massive Cash Dumps on the Overrated! T-shirts, bumper stickers, mugs available now while supplies last (chickenshit yellow only) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 3 hours ago, SCFlyguy said: I can sort of understand the JVR move. It seemed at the time the Flyers were starting to turn things around and needed firepower. But once again the Flyers overestimated their station in the world and they weren't actually ready to take another step. JVR was the #2 UFA that year (IIRC Tavares was #1 and had no interest in Philly). Comcast had just spent a LOT of money retooling the Big Bank Building and wanted to reap the benefits of that investment. The team's failure to capitalize on that cost Hextall his job. The franchise's insistence on not "rebuilding" in the CBA environment that they insisted upon has been their Achilles Heel. It has been a tragic miscalculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 That's why I have to shake my head at posters complaining about "2 years away from 2 years away" as if that has been the Flyers strategy at any point in the last 30 years. The Flyers strategy has been "Vengeance Now" since 1994-1995 - always a few isolated moves away from a Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: That's why I have to shake my head at posters complaining about "2 years away from 2 years away" as if that has been the Flyers strategy at any point in the last 30 years. It's not. It's posters mocking their phillyosophy. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, radoran said: JVR was the #2 UFA that year (IIRC Tavares was #1 and had no interest in Philly). Tavares actually said that? I recall some talk along those lines but nothing definite. Interesting. Edited December 24, 2021 by GratefulFlyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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