Giroux Trade Talk

[OccamsRazor]

It would be nice if they could flip this guy for a key return like the Rod the Bod trade back in the day.

 

 

Man i miss good Flyer hockey....i'm not sure how long we have to wait for it to return if ever...

[OccamsRazor]

 

HHHHHHhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

 

...Kucherov plan in affect i knew other teams would be following suit soon.

Edited March 12, 2022 by OccamsRazor

[flyercanuck]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

HHHHHHhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

 

...Kucherov plan in affect i knew other teams would be following suit soon.

 

 

 Fletcher won't be able to figure out how to utilize this so the Flyers benefit, so he'll put Risto on IR so we finish 9th instead of near the bottom.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

19 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

HHHHHHhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

 

...Kucherov plan in affect i knew other teams would be following suit soon.

Yep.  Vegas is doing it with Mark Stone on LTIR so the could get Eichel into the lineup.  I think we’ll see a lot more of this kind of stuff until the NHL puts a stop to it.
 

Flashback:  Remember about 6 or 7 years ago when the big rumor was Landeskog was being traded to the Flyers?  [sarcasm] I sure am glad the Flyers never picked up a player like Landeskog! [/sarcasm]

[GratefulFlyers]

for the NHL contract-challenged (me for example) - what is going on here? Is the idea to get cap relief by stashing a guy on IR, acquire some new asset(s) before the TD now that you have cap space, and then suddenly, miraculously your IR guy is ready for the POs?

 

I didn't think this was necessary bc contracts are pro-rated aren't they? For instance if a team wants Martin Jones, his salary I think is $2mil/year. A lot of dough for a backup. But pro-rated - if I understand it correctly - means the acquiring team would only have to pay whatever's left from March 21st (TD day) till the end of the season.

[OccamsRazor]

37 minutes ago, AlaskaFlyerFan said:

 I think we’ll see a lot more of this kind of stuff until the NHL puts a stop to it.

 

Or gets rid of the hard salary cap for a luxury tax system like in the NBA.

 

This way sucks and teams find a way to circumvent it but only the top teams can really afford to got without a key player for this to even happen first the lower less deep teams won't be able to do this and still win in my opinion.

[OccamsRazor]

4 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

for the NHL contract-challenged (me for example) - what is going on here? Is the idea to get cap relief by stashing a guy on IR, acquire some new asset(s) before the TD now that you have cap space, and then suddenly, miraculously your IR guy is ready for the POs?

 

I didn't think this was necessary bc contracts are pro-rated aren't they? For instance if a team wants Martin Jones, his salary I think is $2mil/year. A lot of dough for a backup. But pro-rated - if I understand it correctly - means the acquiring team would only have to pay whatever's left from March 21st (TD day) till the end of the season.

 

Yes but it allows team to exceed it like Tampa did with Kucherov and they exceed the cap by about 10 million by having him and some others on IR till after the deadline.

 

That is what so many GM's were upset about and we knew when the NHL didn't do anything to them others were going to do the same because one they couldn't prove Tampa did anything wrong by the rules.

[GratefulFlyers]

Thanks Razor - I see so they can exceed the cap - interesting. I didn't realize that. NHL is pretty much incentivizing GMs to use this IR "loophole" in a way.

[OccamsRazor]

9 minutes ago, GratefulFlyers said:

Thanks Razor - I see so they can exceed the cap - interesting. I didn't realize that. NHL is pretty much incentivizing GMs to use this IR "loophole" in a way.

 

 

Yes.

 

So they make a transaction because they are about to need X amount of cap space to pull off a trade that would otherwise not be possible.

 

But how many can afford to actually lose a Kuherov type and still stay on top of the conference?

 

I guess if you are willing to risk it then good for you.

 

No one can really prove Tampa even did it intentionally but it was perceived that way.

 

Bravo it paid off if my Flyers could do that and hoist the Cup then I am good with it.

 

But we don't have to worry about that anytime soon.

[RonJeremy]

Landeskogg is injured and out indefinitely with knee surgery.  Time to fleece Colorado in a trade for Giroux. Now we should be able to get a real good return for Giroux. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, RonJeremy said:

Landeskogg is injured and out indefinitely with knee surgery.  Time to fleece Colorado in a trade for Giroux. Now we should be able to get a real good return for Giroux. 

 

They lost Sam Girard too and his was on the 2nd pair.

 

So how about a nice Giroux and Braun package....or if they're really drunk we can throw Yabdle in for free just for doing business every team can use an ironman...

[radoran]

https://twitter.com/BroadStBull/status/1503194479691505667?s=20&t=N2-Mn1u4P1BTrbuBS6ishg

Edited March 14, 2022 by radoran

[flyercanuck]

7 minutes ago, radoran said:

https://twitter.com/BroadStBull/status/1503194479691505667?s=20&t=N2-Mn1u4P1BTrbuBS6ishg

 

 LMAO! Like management has a game plan! 

[elmatus]

On 3/13/2022 at 11:27 AM, flyercanuck said:

 Fletcher won't be able to figure out how to utilize this so the Flyers benefit, so he'll put Risto on IR so we finish 9th instead of near the bottom.

 

If Risto doesn't play, the team will be improved. If anything, they'd finish higher not lower.

 

This is a bottom dweller either way mind you. I am very very worried at what Fletch will try to do to somehow salvage his job in the off season. Especially after this latest decision regarding Risto, I see no reason to believe in his ability to manage this team transition. I'm expecting more boneheaded moves for over-the-hill players in the near future.

[flyercanuck]

7 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

If Risto doesn't play, the team will be improved. If anything, they'd finish higher not lower.

 

 

 Yes, that's what I said. 

[mojo1917]

6 minutes ago, elmatus said:

 

If Risto doesn't play, the team will be improved. If anything, they'd finish higher not lower.

 

This is a bottom dweller either way mind you. I am very very worried at what Fletch will try to do to somehow salvage his job in the off season. Especially after this latest decision regarding Risto, I see no reason to believe in his ability to manage this team transition. I'm expecting more boneheaded moves for over-the-hill players in the near future.

This is my fear also.

The Ristolianen extension was really a turning point for my confidence in Fletcher's ability to make the hard decisions necessary to change the team for its betterment. 

[radoran]

2 hours ago, elmatus said:

I see no reason to believe in his ability to manage this team transition.

 

He's really quite clear on this and the whole organization* is from the top down.

 

They don't believe they need a "transition." They think they're doing fine except for the injuries and they're a "piece or two away" from being an actual, bonafide, legitimate contender.

 

Everthing's fine. This year was just bad luck.

 

That's the mindset. That's it.

 

They'll buy out JVR if they can't retain and trade him. They'll probably move a Konecny or a Provorov type player to open up some cap space (probably the former). Then they'll go after Filip Forsberg and John Klingberg, and re-sign Giroux and "spend to the cap" and everything will be grand.

Edited March 14, 2022 by radoran

[mojo1917]

@radoran

man, I hope you're wrong, but think this post is prescient for next few months.

 

There is a kernel of truth in the "this year was bad luck". 

It was, terrible luck with injuries throughout the organization.

 

But more importantly, that the season is not being viewed as an opportunity to drastically improve the roster and playing style of the team is disheartening.

 

I think, like you, the senior guys are thinking they'll draft Tim Duncan this year and add him to the team in place and bingo! San Antonio style relevance for the next 10 years. Except there is no David Robinson already on the Flyers. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by mojo1917

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@radoran

man, I hope you're wrong, but think this post is prescient for next few months.

 

Hell, I hope I'm wrong...

 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

This is my fear also.

The Ristolianen extension was really a turning point for my confidence in Fletcher's ability to make the hard decisions necessary to change the team for its betterment. 

 

This is where i'm at and Chuck had a chance to right the wrong and what did he do??

 

He doubled down...it is like the British soldiers who captured Hitler (during WW1) had a chance at a do over and instead of helping him just shot him, my how this world would have been different.

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by OccamsRazor
#boubonup

[OccamsRazor]

 

 

[radoran]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

There is a kernel of truth in the "this year was bad luck". 

It was, terrible luck with injuries throughout the organization.

 

There's more than a kernel, there's an ear of truth to it.

 

But there's a lot more to the festering mess that this organization* has become.

 

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

But more importantly, that the season is not being viewed as an opportunity to drastically improve the roster and playing style of the team is disheartening.

 

Yeah, this, for example. That said, I think they are going to try to drastically improve the roster. Whether or not that's actually possible in this one off-season remains to be seen.

 

Which is part of the bigger problem - they always think they can "fix" things with whatever happens to be available in the next off-season. There's no long term approach at all.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by radoran

[mojo1917]

21 minutes ago, radoran said:

There's no long term approach at all.

 

Where I do think the lack of "long term thinking" applies is to the Flyers roster, specifically and the Senior Advisors' reticence to strip the team down to the studs. 

 

I am going to push back a little on this, I do think efforts have been made to try to improve the organization's development processes.

Whether or not Ian Laperriere is the right guy in LHV remains to be seen. 

I think the changes we want to see will take more than part of a season to make themselves visible especially in the pro leagues.

Maybe Lappy isn't the guy for the job, but he is there to help these guys learn to become pros and to weed out the coasters. 

I don't remember him being sent there as an Xs and Os guy.

 

Plus, there have been people thrown at the problems, analytics, player development in North America and Europe, more scouting...all areas where gains won't be seen for a few seasons.

Chuck has made attempts to improve the scaffolding that holds the organization up. 

Did he hire the right people? 

I reckon we'll see...there is significant org-chart bloat that has happened in the last 5 months. 

 

 

[radoran]

2 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

I am going to push back a little on this, I do think efforts have been made to try to improve the organization's development processes.

 

Push away. I'm not looking at the developmental aspect of the organization* - I'm looking at the way they "plan" - that they always think "the answer" is in this year's UFA crop.

 

Hayes is the poster child for this. They "needed a 2C" and Hayes was the "best available 2C" so they signed him for seven years. Re-signing Ristolainen is another example. First in giving up what they gave up to get him, and then doubling down on it. It's what brought "best available FA" JVR in - for five years.

 

And the idea that there is some magical salve in "spending to the cap." Wasting money doesn't help anyone. They are $5,000 away from the cap this year. That mentality is why they had to pay to give Ghost away.

 

You know they are slavering at the mouth at the opportunity to give Gaudreau a seven year, $10M contract. (I think he's staying in CGY). Well, to do that, they're going to have to make some serious cap room and that's where a Konecny (or similar) gets dealt. It's why they'll buy out JVR. And that barely makes enough room for that offer, on top of a ~$6M re-sign of Giroux.

 

Which is great, I like Gaudreau fine (but he did have two sub-superstar years before this one) and replacing Williams, er, Konecny with Gaudreau is fine.  And if it isn't Gaudreau, they are likely to go after a Filip Forsberg who's having a career year in a contract year at age 27.

 

Then you have a top six that means there's no room for a Frost or ol' Foerster for the next three years and then we're back to your "development" point.

 

"It's the way we've always done things."

[flyercanuck]

3 hours ago, radoran said:

 

 

 

You know they are slavering at the mouth at the opportunity to give Gaudreau a seven year, $10M contract. (I think he's staying in CGY). Well, to do that, they're going to have to make some serious cap room and that's where a Konecny (or similar) gets dealt. It's why they'll buy out JVR. And that barely makes enough room for that offer, on top of a ~$6M re-sign of Giroux.

 

Which is great, I like Gaudreau fine (but he did have two sub-superstar years before this one) and replacing Williams, er, Konecny with Gaudreau is fine.  And if it isn't Gaudreau, they are likely to go after a Filip Forsberg who's having a career year in a contract year at age 27.

 

 

 

 The sad thing is, a lot of the people complaining about where we're at would love to see Gaudreau signed. And like you said, they'd have to send a Konecny or Sanheim or Provorov out. And we can watch those guys get their game back somewhere else, while watching Gaudreaus game deteriorate in Philly. But still be good enough to keep us in the middle of the pack, not good enough to win anything, not bad enough for high picks.

 

  Then those same people complain about why we're in this mess, while wanting to sign the next nearing 30 UFA so he can cash in for what he did on another team at Flyer fans expense.