Provorov vs Sanheim

[Lindbergh31]

Provorov has 3 years left @ $6.75 per year and Sanheim has 1 year left @ $4.675, if one is to be traded who would you like the Flyers to keep. Provorov seemed to regress and Sanheim had a good second half. Sanheim seems to have more potential but we didn't see what Provorov could do with a veteran partner like Ellis for a full year (which may not be possible going forward). What would the majority of Flyers fans on the forum want to see happen.

[Dumpster Hockey]

After the comments in the exit interview that Provorov gave I think I would rather see him go over Sanheim. Provorov has been given the opportunity to stand as that D1 line guy and he is not that guy. Like you stated @Lindbergh31he has regressed and in my opinion is no more than a 2nd pairing D. Now he might be able to be carried by someone like Ellis on the top pairing, but that remains to be seen.

 

Sanheim, I think has more potential and if Ellis is able to be that top pairing guy then Sanheim regardless if Provorov is gone or not should be paired with him, but that won't happen. 

 

So I say keep Sanheim over Provorov. 

[mojo1917]

...in an epic no holds barred ladder match!?

 

I say keep 'em both if possible.

They are both,  most likely, "what they are",(no one is suddenly going to get faster) however, both are also the age where non- superstar players become really good NHL players.

Their position is one that requires the 10k hours or pro sports equivalent to play well.

They both are coming into the # of games played where they've experienced almost all the situations. 

I'd hate to see either traded and the other team gets all the benefits, after we've watched them struggle while learning.

 

Gun to my head, I say keep Provorov.  25 minutes a night is tough to replace. Even though he did pass the puck to the opposition in the slot too often, he wasn't terrible- he just didn't play to his standard. 

[Lindbergh31]

1 hour ago, mojo1917 said:

...in an epic no holds barred ladder match!?

 

I say keep 'em both if possible.

They are both,  most likely, "what they are",(no one is suddenly going to get faster) however, both are also the age where non- superstar players become really good NHL players.

Their position is one that requires the 10k hours or pro sports equivalent to play well.

They both are coming into the # of games played where they've experienced almost all the situations. 

I'd hate to see either traded and the other team gets all the benefits, after we've watched them struggle while learning.

 

Gun to my head, I say keep Provorov.  25 minutes a night is tough to replace. Even though he did pass the puck to the opposition in the slot too often, he wasn't terrible- he just didn't play to his standard. 

I'd love to see both stay and Provorov have a full year with a veteran partner, but it wouldn't surprise me if Fletcher trades one of them this summer. It would be great to see players we draft and development stay with the Flyers instead of having to trade for players.

[RonJeremy]

13 hours ago, Lindbergh31 said:

Provorov has 3 years left @ $6.75 per year and Sanheim has 1 year left @ $4.675, if one is to be traded who would you like the Flyers to keep. Provorov seemed to regress and Sanheim had a good second half. Sanheim seems to have more potential but we didn't see what Provorov could do with a veteran partner like Ellis for a full year (which may not be possible going forward). What would the majority of Flyers fans on the forum want to see happen.

Sanheim is starting to develop that offensive skill and playmaking  ability that you saw him do in juniors. I think he is poised for a break out season, especially under a good coach. I think Provorov will also bounce back.

 

I would say that Provorov is a better all around defensemen who also showed very good offensive skill a few years ago. I don't see why either would have to be traded right away. You need to have four good defensemen for the first two pairs and then some cheaper solid guys for the third pair. 

 

I believe if York plays really well they may decide to trade a dman, it would probably be Sanheim because York is cheaper and similar type of offensive defenseman. It would also depend on whether Ellis comes back or not. If we draft a dman this year, then someone is going to be traded at the trade deadline. Sanheim can bring a good return if he has a good season

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

1 hour ago, FireDillabaugh said:

I don't think Fletcher moves either one.  They know what the Ellis "plan" is.  They wrote the propaganda.  And, that plan doesn't have him getting onto the ice at all in the future.  He'll be another LTIR mistake.  And, York and Sanheim can battle each other in camp for the top pairing spot with Provy.  I don't think Provy or Sanheim have had their best seasons yet.  And, if they're moved now, it will just be another player where those best seasons happen on another team.  Keep them both.  Don't go after ANY UFA dmen, since they resigned Seeler.  He can compete with Risto for the 6th and 7th spot.  Then play the youth in the remaining spots, and keep Risto as far away from the 2nd pairing as possible.

 

Hopefully, they bring in a competent head coach who is willing to do that with Risto.  No matter what this pathetic front office demands for him.

Where do you get this BS info from  ?

[CoachX]

Assuming the question is based on one "having" to go. I'd have to ask the question, what is the follow up? Is one being moved to free cap space for a significant offensive player? If so, and you need every penny to get that mystery player, then Provy goes. If Sanheim has to be packaged with TK to make it happen, Provy goes. But a lot of this revolves around what Sanheim actually is. A few short seasons ago he was tripping over his own skates, giving up scoring chances. The forum ax was being sharpened to lop off his head. Now all of a sudden, in a year where pretty much everything and everyone sucked, he has emerged as "better" than he was. Is he really that good, that you'd deal a player like Provy? If so, then that the answer for me.

 

I still think Provy is better and trading him would bite us in the azz. I've never been high on Sanheim. But, like many have stated, I'd like to see them keep both

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

4 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

It's what's called an opinion...  Don't like it?  Then there's an ignore feature that you can utilize.

 

I get it.  You hate Sanheim, and judge him when you clearly didn't even watch him play this season.  Which I've already provided the reasons to you as to why that's clear.  Old news...  Critiquing a player with ignorance certainly isn't more accurate than critiquing a player with the wisdom from actually watching the player play the game.

 

Do you feel Ellis is going to play?  Well, if so, then that's your opinion.  However, Rathje had this same "plan" when he was on the roster.  And, we all know how that plan played out.  Imo, there isn't any difference with Ellis.  His press conference was nothing more than complete propaganda.  Hoping the gullible among the fanbase buy into him having this "plan" all of a sudden, after having the injury for months...  Don't agree?  Great.  That's your opinion.

 

If you can't handle someone posting an opinion that differs from yours, then use the ignore feature, or don't bother responding. 

 

I've watched  him play all year like you,Sanheim has offensive  ability  I'll give him that but his defensive play infront of his own net and boards  is bad really  bad an 8 year old figure  skater could knock him off the puck. Ellis never once  in his press conference  did say he wasn’t  gonna play, just watched it again 

 

[mojo1917]

9 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

They know what the Ellis "plan" is.  They wrote the propaganda.  And, that plan doesn't have him getting onto the ice at all in the future.  He'll be another LTIR mistake

 

 

It is easy to see where someone could read this and not think it is your opinion.

 

This reads like you know something that others may not when actually, you are operating with the same information as everyone else.

 

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

1 hour ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Lmfao...  Seriously?  ...

 

Yeah...

Yeah what's even better is that  Sanheim  has played  for 5 years and has won an award  for sucking so bad the year before  not once but twice

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

1 minute ago, Pedo 228 ERQS said:

Yeah what's even better is that  Sanheim  has played  for 5 years and has won an award  for sucking so bad the year before  not once but twice

The most "improved player" if you didn't  know 

[flyercanuck]

I'd like to keep both. 

 

Want more out of Sanheim and Provorov? Get rid of Fletcher and Holmgren. Bring in some real hockey minds. 

[Pedo 228 ERQS]

14 minutes ago, flyercanuck said:

I'd like to keep both. 

 

Want more out of Sanheim and Provorov? Get rid of Fletcher and Holmgren. Bring in some real hockey minds. 

That is the best comment  on this post sir

[CoachX]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

I'd like to keep both. 

 

Want more out of Sanheim and Provorov? Get rid of Fletcher and Holmgren. Bring in some real hockey minds. 

unfortunately, this isn't going to happen, at least not Holmgren. We may see Fletcher get the ax if there isn't some sort of positive result next season. They will simply run out of excuses to keep him. There will no one else to blame. Although I could see them moving him up in management and hiring another GM. What a disaster that would be, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised

[RonJeremy]

20 hours ago, Pedo 228 ERQS said:

Where do you get this BS info from  ?

Ellis was out since October and  it took until April to figure out a diagnosis? Usually a player is injured, diagnosed and then they might try rehab for a few months and if that fails, they get surgery. I have never seen this situation in all the years I've watched hockey. They didn't say a word for 6 months and still no definitive diagnosis.  What's the big secret?

 

I think he probably has some sort if degenerative condition in his back or hip and he probably can't be counted on for next year. The reason the Flyers are keeping it so quiet is, they will probably trade for a veteran defensemen and if the other GMs know Fletcher is desperate,  they will fleece him on a trade. Then again he will probably get fleeced no matter what.

 

They knew Morin was finished back in December and didn't announce it until after the season. I think this is a similar situation. I think his career is over or if he comes back,  he will be in and out of the lineup. 

[CoachX]

5 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

Ellis was out since October and  it took until April to figure out a diagnosis? Usually a player is injured, diagnosed and then they might try rehab for a few months and if that fails, they get surgery. I have never seen this situation in all the years I've watched hockey. They didn't say a word for 6 months and still no definitive diagnosis.  What's the big secret?

 

I think he probably has some sort if degenerative condition in his back or hip and he probably can't be counted on for next year. The reason the Flyers are keeping it so quiet is, they will probably trade for a veteran defensemen and if the other GMs know Fletcher is desperate,  they will fleece him on a trade. Then again he will probably get fleeced no matter what.

 

They knew Morin was finished back in December and didn't announce it until after the season. I think this is a similar situation. I think his career is over or if he comes back,  he will be in and out of the lineup. 

Interesting take on this.....if it comes to fruition, you should mark this and bring it back up

[RonJeremy]

1 hour ago, CoachX said:

Interesting take on this.....if it comes to fruition, you should mark this and bring it back up

I've watched enough main stream media to spot propaganda or damage control a mile away.

[mojo1917]

21 hours ago, FireDillabaugh said:

Have you been watching how Holmgren works in this organization's front office?  I rest my case...  Or are you taking offense with the opinion because you fall into that group of the fanbase I mention? 

 

Clearly, it's an opinion.  And, for someone to believe otherwise would only show they desire confrontation, instead of debate.

 

Soon we will all see what this "plan" is that Ellis has.

 

Pointing out how some one may have misunderstood your post, is hardly what I would call taking offense. 

You give yourself far too much credit for thinking any thing you write here offends me.

 

I don't know what the heck is going on in that Flyers front office.

Neither do you, nor do you know what is going on with Ryan Ellis' pelvic region. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mojo1917]

@FireDillabaugh

Well, do you know  even second hand, about these things? 

 

 

I mean if you are juiced in. what an amazing resource you could be.

 

So far though, I think you're full of it and kinda mean.

Couple that with the condescending tone of many of your posts, it is a miracle you're not involved in multiple confrontations.

 

 

 

 

[CoachX]

12 minutes ago, mojo1917 said:

@FireDillabaugh

Well, do you know  even second hand, about these things? 

 

 

I mean if you are juiced in. what an amazing resource you could be.

 

So far though, I think you're full of it and kinda mean.

Couple that with the condescending tone of many of your posts, it is a miracle you're not involved in multiple confrontations.

 

 

 

 

I have finally, after all these years, made good use of the "ignore" feature.  Admittedly,  I had to ask for assistance on how to deploy the device. You might things more enjoyable doing the same. Some people aren't worth listening to

 

I agree with all your comments on this matter

[mojo1917]

27 minutes ago, FireDillabaugh said:

which you still haven't given ANY SINGLE REASON why you believe differently).

This is not true.

I've stated multiple times in multiple threads that I take these people at their word.

If I omitted that in my comments with you, it's because I'm not a huge fan of repeating myself.

I don't know Ryan Ellis so I don't know him to be liar.

I don't think Chuck Fletcher is an imbecile but somehow still capable of crafting multi-layerd disinformation campaigns regarding his player's health and justifications for covering his mistakes. 

I can't really argue the Holmgren points, I largely agree with folks who say he was a mixed bag as GM at best.

He started strong but by the end of his time he had left the team in shambles. I don't know how much influence he can actually exert. I really disagree with all the puppet master crap I see on the internet. 

The things I find I want to speak up in a confrontational manner about are constant negativity and worn out tropes.

I've confronted plenty of my internet friends on this site about those issues.

The negative attitude and many worn out ideas seem to be the scaffolding for your posts.

The first thing one sees when they come across any thought from you here is FireDillabaugh, I'm not expecting unicorn farts from everyone, but that's pretty negative. 

 

I don't want you to kiss anyone's ass, I really don't care what you do. 

I'm done for real with our interactions. kindly don't quote me anymore.

I'll be on this side of the street, you stay over there. 

good talk

 

[CoachX]

4 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

I don't know Ryan Ellis so I don't know him to be liar.

I don't think Chuck Fletcher is an imbecile but somehow still capable of crafting multi-layerd disinformation campaigns regarding his player's health and justifications for covering his mistakes. 

I can't really argue the Holmgren points, I largely agree with folks who say he was a mixed bag as GM at best.

He started strong but by the end of his time he had left the team in shambles. I don't know how much influence he can actually exert. I really disagree with all the puppet master crap I see on the internet. 

The things I find I want to speak up in a confrontational manner about are constant negativity and worn out tropes.

Without any direction toward who you were discussing this with, I really like the way you made your points here. This was really well stated. It was kind of like the argument how team owners, are idiots. I doubt they got billions and continue to run business by stupid. They might not be good at running a hockey team, but most coaches who've ever played the game, have never won a championship. That doesnt make them idiots