2023-24 Phantoms/Flyer prospects

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

10 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Frightening thought, Sanheim is a solid #3 dman but the contract is way too long. Provorov may not have been a true #1 dman but he certainly was the Flyers #1 dman. Sanheim and York are offensive defenseman with no physical game at all. I don't think either of them are durable or physical enough to replace the minutes Provorov played. Hopefully in the next draft we will have a top 5 pick and get a potential top pair dman.

The Sanheim contract doesn't scare me. The guy had a bad year. And honestly, how many different coaches has the man had since joining the Flyers. You've got one coach that wanted him to skate, but didn't want him to lead rushes (Hakstol). Then that idiot gets replaced by a coach who lets him play firewagon hockey (Gordon). From there, he gets another coach that says to get rid of the puck fast and support the offense, but transition to defense immediately and make sure you're back at the blueline and gassing yourself and the team's offense (Vigneault). He then gets a coach who tells him to play responsibly, safe and physical, but make sure you press offensively (Yeo) to finally Tortorella and whatever offensive system Brad Shaw is using with his defensemen. And that's in a short period of time. There's absolutely 0% ANY player is successful in this sort of environment. The Flyers ruined Provorov and they banished Gostisbehere when he was the only one with enough balls to call out the team for their nonsense. 

 

I'm willing to give Sanheim another year. He started to come around in the 2nd half of last year. I figure that with his name being out there on the trade block, that's going to light a fire under his ass to prove people wrong. That's motivation right there.

[OccamsRazor]

2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Honestly, this is where I'd use Attard. I think he'd be a great compliment for York. While I understand that Attard has an offensive element to his game, he also brings size, skating ability and can really play physical if need be. The skill aspect that Attard brings would be really intriguing to the pair. If teams go to shut down York, then Attard picks up the offensive slack. You can really create mismatches with that. The question is.......does Brad Shaw think outside the box like that or is he insistent that all pairings have one offensive guy and one defensive guy, no exceptions...

 

Exactly Frat boy pair.

[RonJeremy]

14 hours ago, mojo1917 said:

@OccamsRazor

Need to find York a Ken Danyko type partner.

If someone along those lines develops, gets signed or traded for I think York could be a #1 .

 

York's game reminds me of Scott Niedermayer a bit, not quite the same skater, but there are similarities imo. He doesn't panic, never seems rushed, he likes the game on his stick in the same was as Niedes. 

 

I'd take 10 years of that kind of pairing. 

Exactly,  we need a defensively sound ,physical defenseman to go with York that way York can take some chances in the offensive zone. 

[OccamsRazor]

4 hours ago, RonJeremy said:

Exactly,  we need a defensively sound ,physical defenseman to go with York that way York can take some chances in the offensive zone. 

 

Hunter Macdonald is that type of guy but the isn't a right hand shot though.

 

And a few years away. In the meantime...

[RonJeremy]

On 7/16/2023 at 12:29 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Hunter Macdonald is that type of guy but the isn't a right hand shot though.

 

And a few years away. In the meantime...

The problem I see with the Flyers historically has been weak goaltending which seems to be a thing of the past Hart is good and we have solid prospects. The second biggest problem was miscasting the defenseman by giving them minutes  and roles they are not suited for. Since we were horrible at drafting and developing dmen. The last time we had an indisputable #1 dman was Pronger , we also had Timo and Carle so that was a solid top 3 and that didn’t last long. Then we had  Niskanen and Provy, who maybe aren’t 100% first pair guys but they were the closest the Flyers had in years ,even Sanheim and Meyers looked like a good second pair and that didn’t last either. Before that we had Desjardins and Therein as our top pair. Desjardin was run into the ground from over use and Therein was at best a #4 guy. The best one  two punch we had was Howe and McCrimmon forty years ago. 

I really hope we don’t make the same mistakes and ruin these kids and overvalue our guys by giving them minutes they aren’t capable of playing. I don’t think one defenseman we have is a legit #1. To me , a guy like York or Andre could  possibly play first pair# 2 if they had a real ringer #1 guy with some size and durability to be paired with them.  I don’t want to see York overused and broken down like we did to Desjardins and I don’t want to see another #4 guy in the first pair. I like Attard but I don’t see him as a top pair guy. In next years draft we need a top defenseman.

[OccamsRazor]

I want a good year from the Phantoms and the Calder Cup run.

 

 

If not this year it may be time for Danny to show his old team mate the door.

[flyer4ever]

On 7/17/2023 at 6:31 PM, RonJeremy said:

The problem I see with the Flyers historically has been weak goaltending which seems to be a thing of the past Hart is good and we have solid prospects. The second biggest problem was miscasting the defenseman by giving them minutes  and roles they are not suited for. Since we were horrible at drafting and developing dmen. The last time we had an indisputable #1 dman was Pronger , we also had Timo and Carle so that was a solid top 3 and that didn’t last long. Then we had  Niskanen and Provy, who maybe aren’t 100% first pair guys but they were the closest the Flyers had in years ,even Sanheim and Meyers looked like a good second pair and that didn’t last either. Before that we had Desjardins and Therein as our top pair. Desjardin was run into the ground from over use and Therein was at best a #4 guy. The best one  two punch we had was Howe and McCrimmon forty years ago. 

I really hope we don’t make the same mistakes and ruin these kids and overvalue our guys by giving them minutes they aren’t capable of playing. I don’t think one defenseman we have is a legit #1. To me , a guy like York or Andre could  possibly play first pair# 2 if they had a real ringer #1 guy with some size and durability to be paired with them.  I don’t want to see York overused and broken down like we did to Desjardins and I don’t want to see another #4 guy in the first pair. I like Attard but I don’t see him as a top pair guy. In next years draft we need a top defenseman.

We can get that by finishing bottom 3 next season. If Torts drags them to 8th or 10th worst drafting a top pair guy usually doesn't happen, and if it does you have to wait for a later pick to mature, say 26 or 28 yrs young. The whole rebuild will go better by being REALLY bad next year and the next year too. Right now there is no top pair guy in the system, but miracles do happen. Who was the last top pair guy the Flyers drafted and developed, not named Provorov?

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 7/16/2023 at 12:29 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

Hunter Macdonald is that type of guy but the isn't a right hand shot though.

 

And a few years away. In the meantime...

Don't sleep on Carter Sotheran. He was an absolute steal in round 5 and was actually the 66th rated player in the past draft. Big, mobile, can move the puck, incredibly solid defensively and has a bit of a mean streak. A potential shut down defender.

[Podein25]

2 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Don't sleep on Carter Sotheran. He was an absolute steal in round 5 and was actually the 66th rated player in the past draft. Big, mobile, can move the puck, incredibly solid defensively and has a bit of a mean streak. A potential shut down defender.

 

Good Manitoba boy!

 

I like that he was Captain of his AAA Midget team as a 14 year old Dman.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Podein25

[OccamsRazor]

3 hours ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Don't sleep on Carter Sotheran. He was an absolute steal in round 5 and was actually the 66th rated player in the past draft. Big, mobile, can move the puck, incredibly solid defensively and has a bit of a mean streak. A potential shut down defender.

 

He'll get his chance to prove he can make the team. He is a right hand shot so it will help his case. But has a few years to develop as well. We'll see in a few.

[RonJeremy]

23 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

He'll get his chance to prove he can make the team. He is a right hand shot so it will help his case. But has a few years to develop as well. We'll see in a few.

On a good note, Sanheim and Risto will be our top pair next year. I can just see the goals pouring into the Flyers net. So we should be a bottom three for sure. I can just see it now, no way can Sanheim handle the minutes that Provorov used to log. 

[RonJeremy]

Just now, RonJeremy said:

On a good note, Sanheim and Risto will be our top pair next year. I can just see the goals pouring into the Flyers net. So we should be a bottom three for sure. I can just see it now, no way can Sanheim handle the minutes that Provorov used to log. With all the minutes Sanheim should weigh about 98 lbs by the new year.  

 

[OccamsRazor]

29 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

I can just see the goals pouring into the Flyers net.

 

Yep further ruining Carter Hart and his psyche...one of the main reason you look to move him if the right deal is on the table. He will be 25 by the start of this coming season 28 more likely when they are ready to push deep. But he'll require a huge deal to secure...more likely why it would be the best time to move him.

 

29 minutes ago, RonJeremy said:

So we should be a bottom three for sure. I can just see it now, no way can Sanheim handle the minutes that Provorov used to log. 

 

Bottom 3 nice spot but this would only makes us hate Sanheim and having him for 7 more years after this one...would love to trade him over Risto i must admit.

 

But it feels hopeless that they are stuck with this guy for eternity.

 

Ready for the younger guys to come around and push him to the 6th spot in the future maybe forcing him to accept a trade out eventually.

 

It would be very nice if he had a break season like Vince Dunn to help with a trade out of town.

 

We can dream... 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by OccamsRazor
#bourbonup

[OccamsRazor]

I am hoping for a good year for Alex Bump...

 

 

It would be nice if he was the answer at one of the LW spots...

[flyercanuck]

On 7/22/2023 at 11:48 AM, OccamsRazor said:

would love to trade him over Risto i must admit.

 

Ummmm....NO!

 

Oh, you mean to tank.

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Ummmm....NO!

 

Oh, you mean to tank.

 

Yes to tank.

 

However brace yourself you're not going to like this comment and it isn't my opinion just one I have seen repeated many places.

 

Risto has shown improvement and the ability to take coaching on his defensive game.

 

I can not verify this because I haven't watched but from most of these same people (fans/team beat writers) say Sanheim hasn't shown very much improvement with the same staff and has actually took a step back.

 

So they may actually be able to improve his draft stock for the trade deadline maybe.

 

Or for the offseason.

 

Once again to not shoot the messenger.

 

However barring a miracle I think they are stuck with Sanheim.

 

There is a glimmer of hope that the losers of the Karlsson trade may double back for a defender like Sanehim even though he isn't a right.

 

All remains to be seen I'm not going to say either way.

 

The good news is that if this is a 3 year rebuild then by the time they should be ready he Risto will only have one year left on his deal.

[GratefulFlyers]

Ristolainen is a big reason why Sanheim is where is right now, why he doesn’t consistently lead the Flyers’ D in point-production. His offensive instincts, puck-handling and skating are as good or better than any D-man the Flyers have had in ages but he’s been saddled with a partner who can’t keep up. If the Flyers want Sanheim to develop into what he’s capable of he needs a better partner. Period.
 

The sooner Ristolainen is gone the better. It’ll be a crying shame if Tortorella sticks those 2 together again. 

[flyercanuck]

5 hours ago, OccamsRazor said:

 

Yes to tank.

 

However brace yourself you're not going to like this comment and it isn't my opinion just one I have seen repeated many places.

 

Risto has shown improvement and the ability to take coaching on his defensive game.

 

I can not verify this because I haven't watched but from most of these same people (fans/team beat writers) say Sanheim hasn't shown very much improvement with the same staff and has actually took a step back.

 

So they may actually be able to improve his draft stock for the trade deadline maybe.

 

Or for the offseason.

 

Once again to not shoot the messenger.

 

However barring a miracle I think they are stuck with Sanheim.

 

There is a glimmer of hope that the losers of the Karlsson trade may double back for a defender like Sanehim even though he isn't a right.

 

All remains to be seen I'm not going to say either way.

 

The good news is that if this is a 3 year rebuild then by the time they should be ready he Risto will only have one year left on his deal.

 

Well, in fairness to Sanheim, it was actually possible for him to take a step back.

 

Ristolainen couldn't get any worse if he tried. 

[OccamsRazor]

1 hour ago, flyercanuck said:

 

Well, in fairness to Sanheim, it was actually possible for him to take a step back.

 

Ristolainen couldn't get any worse if he tried. 

 

I would really really like for them to be able to help Sanheim get to where he needs to be but now being forced into the #1 spot may make it hard and unfair on him.

 

Guess we'll see.

[OccamsRazor]

Another sniper in the fold...

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by OccamsRazor

[GratefulFlyers]

On 7/24/2023 at 1:54 PM, OccamsRazor said:

 

I would really really like for them to be able to help Sanheim get to where he needs to be but now being forced into the #1 spot may make it hard and unfair on him.

 

Guess we'll see.

Sanheim on the top pair? Yikes. For whatever reason that hadn’t dawned on me till I read your post. Now that Provorov is gone the pickings are slim indeed.
 

I guess Hart’s sports psych will be “on call” next season. 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

On 7/27/2023 at 1:43 PM, GratefulFlyers said:

I guess Hart’s sports psych will be “on call” next season. 

 

I'm definitely in the minority, but the Flyers need to move on from Hart. He's a mental nightmare. He doesn't deal with adversity and when things are going bad in a game, he doesn't battle, he gives up. He's easy to rattle and he's easy to knock off focus. I'm sorry, but Carter Hart has been given every excuse in the book to accommodate his mediocre play. He needs to step up this year. You know who he is? He's Jack Campbell 2.0. I'd rather lose with a battler like Samuel Ersson than continue to anoint Hart the chosen one when he continues to disappoint. At some point, we've got to stop blaming coaches (although Dillabaugh deserves a HUGE share of the blame) and start looking at the player.

[flyercanuck]

11 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

 

I'm definitely in the minority, but the Flyers need to move on from Hart. He's a mental nightmare. He doesn't deal with adversity and when things are going bad in a game, he doesn't battle, he gives up. He's easy to rattle and he's easy to knock off focus. I'm sorry, but Carter Hart has been given every excuse in the book to accommodate his mediocre play. He needs to step up this year. You know who he is? He's Jack Campbell 2.0. I'd rather lose with a battler like Samuel Ersson than continue to anoint Hart the chosen one when he continues to disappoint. At some point, we've got to stop blaming coaches (although Dillabaugh deserves a HUGE share of the blame) and start looking at the player.

 

He's certainly had a stellar wall of defence in front of him....Yandle, Deangelo, Ristolainen, MacDonald, Gostisbehere, Gustafsson, Hagg, Myers....

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

2 hours ago, flyercanuck said:

 

He's certainly had a stellar wall of defence in front of him....Yandle, Deangelo, Ristolainen, MacDonald, Gostisbehere, Gustafsson, Hagg, Myers....

Every goaltender at one time or another has played behind ****** defensemen. Most of them responded to the challenge. The mental midget hasn't. If he battled even in the slightest, I'm giving him a pass. But he's been coddled everywhere he's been. At some point, Hart has to grow up, get tough, and develop some thick skin and show some semblance of being the all world goaltender he can be. If he fails this year, what excuse does he get? 

[flyercanuck]

56 minutes ago, BobbyClarkeFan16 said:

Every goaltender at one time or another has played behind ****** defensemen. Most of them responded to the challenge. The mental midget hasn't. If he battled even in the slightest, I'm giving him a pass. But he's been coddled everywhere he's been. At some point, Hart has to grow up, get tough, and develop some thick skin and show some semblance of being the all world goaltender he can be. If he fails this year, what excuse does he get? 

 

I'd still like to se what he has with a good team in front of him.

 

As I've mentioned many times, if someone blows us away with an offer, I'd trade anyone. But if it's a 2nd round pick we're getting, I really don't see the point.