mojo1917 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) @GratefulFlyers that's fine. I wouldn't expect anyone to really read about all that futility. But it is why I hate tanking. The O's did the tank and they were unlucky on a couple of drafts, then they were terrible, then they couldn't get people to come out to that beautiful ballpark because the home team was ****. It didn't take long for one of the best environments in the league to turn into a mausoleum. Next thing you know it's 25 years later, and your daughter says, I never knew you liked the Orioles?!?! yes teen-girl mojo you didn't know that. it's because they were so ****** terrible I would never subject you to that level of incompetence. Edited April 8 by mojo1917 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GratefulFlyers Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 That stadium is quite nice though….well it was when it opened anyway I haven’t been there in a long time. I agree tanking sucks…sucks the life out of everyone. But trading for the overall 3, 4 or 5th pick is a tough ask (forget the overall 1st and 2nd) so if @flyercanuck is right and teams absolutely must have those top prospects to win the Cup how do we get them? I think he’s wrong but I’m not exactly brimming with confidence that Jones and Briere can pull off what they said they want. Let’s face it the odds are slim the Flyers win the Cup in the next 5 years. That so many other teams share the same lousy odds is no comfort. But building a Cup champ by tanking is at least a 5 year project. So as you can tell I don’t know what I want lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 @GratefulFlyers At some point some luck is involved. Whether it's a favorable draw in the playoffs, or a guy taken in a later round exceeds their ceiling. Or a ping pong ball lands the right way. There is no one right way to build a championship team. If tanking guaranteed winning, why then are there zero championship banners hanging in the Mullet arena in Phoenix? For the last 10 years the Flyers have had terrible luck, that run can't last forever. Having many good young players and having multiple swings trying to find those good young players is one way to build a team. It's not the only way. Finding and (this is where the Flyers have really been bad) developing those young players is vitally important no question. Becoming a place where players want to come to play helps too. Being young and dumb and playing in an empty arena isn't what anyone wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 @mojo1917 & @GratefulFlyers I get that tanking isn't exactly thrilling to watch. I understand that. But can you honestly say that what you've been seeing from this franchise over the last 20 years (minus one totally fluke run to the finals where every top team fell in front of us and we got matched with exactly who we'd want) is exciting? Like really? Cause all I've seen is one frustrating season after another, topped off with another vanilla draft pick. There's been the odd higher pick thrown in, that of course had bad luck stamped all over it, whether it was Patrick and his health, Provorov and his abrupt halt in development, or Gauthier the candy ass. I don't know how old you guys are, but I can remember season after season where I'd be thinking THIS is our year. Maybe it didn't happen, but there was a LOT of fun rides, and then the hope that next year would be the one. That feeling is looooong gone. It flickered when Hextall took over and we won 2nd overall in the lottery, but Fletcher stomped it out and pissed on it. This team needs players that when they hop over the boards, you think something good is going to happen. Konecny is one of those guys, but unfortunately I don't think he will be by the time this mess gets sorted out. Michkov certainly can be, but theres more pieces that need to be added. And not Laughtons and Ginnings. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 6 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: If tanking guaranteed winning, why then are there zero championship banners hanging in the Mullet arena in Phoenix? Show me where Phoenix drafted a top 2 pick. (they never have) They don't tank, they're just a poorly run org. that NOBODY cares about. And I know it doesn't guarantee anything. It CAN give you elite talent. Which is EXACTLY what Philly is in dire need of. Edited April 8 by flyercanuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Wearing a seatbelt while driving doesn’t guarantee I don’t die in a car crash, so why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: (minus one totally fluke run to the finals where every top team fell in front of us and we got matched with exactly who we'd want) I don't agree with this take either. Those Richards teams were good. 2 ECFs 1 SCF, playoffs 5 straight years. They were a healthy goaltender away from winning a 'chip. And had they not been blown-up could have been in the mix for 3 or 4 more years. That team lost to the champion Pens in round one 2009, had they played anyone else, that team was going to play for another month at least. Lucky? sure both good and bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 38 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: Wearing a seatbelt while driving doesn’t guarantee I don’t die in a car crash, so why bother? because billions of dollars aren't at stake on your daily commute? For a professional sports team to lose on purpose is ****** dumb. Kinda like comparing tanking to wearing a seatbelt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 45 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: I don't agree with this take either. Made the playoffs on a shootout in the last game of the season. Not exactly a juggernaut. The Habs then knocked off the top team (we were tied with them in points) and we went down 3-0 to the Bruins, then 3-0 in game 7. Yes, we won and it was fun. But it was more horseshoes up our arses. Then we drew the Habs, the team tied with us with 88 points, in the ECF. Imagine 2 teams with 88 points playing in the ECF? Me neither. Then we lost to a team with a 1st overall and a 3rd overall. The earlier teams (like 20 years ago) were good and fun to watch, but we lost to a team that had *cough cough* a 1st overall pick and then we lost to one that had 2 - 1st overall picks and a 2nd overall. Go figure. But lets just keep trying to be that 5% that wins without that, right? Edited April 8 by flyercanuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 @flyercanuck Let me bold a part for you. 46 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Lucky? sure both good and bad That team was good, good enough to be in the conversation for best teams in the East. For half a decade. Did they lose to Generational talent Sidney Crosby? Well, that wasn't hard to do lots of teams lost vs that guy. If they got just pedestrian goaltending, they win that 2010 series. Chicago got our ping pong ball, they get Kane we get JvR. Lucky, both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 32 minutes ago, mojo1917 said: Did they lose to Generational talent Sidney Crosby? Well, that wasn't hard to do lots of teams lost vs that guy. You're singing my song... Where'd they get him? Picking 15th in the draft? Edited April 8 by flyercanuck 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, flyercanuck said: You're singing my song... Where'd they get him? Picking 15th in the draft? Fine whatever, they were a ****** disgrace to get Lemieux . They were gifted Crosby after the lockout. **** if I'm pinning my hopes on the commish cutting the Flyers a break at all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 2 hours ago, mojo1917 said: because billions of dollars aren't at stake on your daily commute? For a professional sports team to lose on purpose is ****** dumb. Kinda like comparing tanking to wearing a seatbelt? I will explain my analogy, since you maybe didn't get it. You said: 4 hours ago, mojo1917 said: If tanking guaranteed winning, why then are there zero championship banners hanging in the Mullet arena in Phoenix? Of course there are no guarantees. My point was, doing a full rebuild, like wearing a seatbelt, maximizes your chances. Why not do that? You might say, "well I don't want to watch a rebuilding team" and that is understandable because watching a rebuilding team is not fun, at least early on. But I can't say I have had much fun watching this team in a very, very long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 25 minutes ago, SCFlyguy said: I will explain my analogy, since you maybe didn't get it. You said: Of course there are no guarantees. My point was, doing a full rebuild, like wearing a seatbelt, maximizes your chances. Why not do that? You might say, "well I don't want to watch a rebuilding team" and that is understandable because watching a rebuilding team is not fun, at least early on. But I can't say I have had much fun watching this team in a very, very long time. That's fair. I understood. I don't like the logic. Maximizing chances. If the stars align and the generational player comes out of the right ****** 17 years prior to when the pick is available still seems dubious to me at best. This subject is hard for me to find my wise mind because, as has been discussed, other sports fan experiences. Edited April 8 by mojo1917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 9 hours ago, mojo1917 said: That's fair. I understood. I don't like the logic. Maximizing chances. If the stars align and the generational player comes out of the right ****** 17 years prior to when the pick is available still seems dubious to me at best. This subject is hard for me to find my wise mind because, as has been discussed, other sports fan experiences. He doesn't have to be generational. Tampa won three times with VLC and then Stamkos. Chicago 3 times with Kane. Carolina with Staal, Bruins Seguin, Kings twice with Doughty, Caps Ovechkin (you can call him a generational goal scorer, but certainly not hockey player), Avs MacKinnon. It's just nice to be able to roll out some high end talent. Especially in the playoffs. And especially especially on the pp...as we Flyer fans all well know. Edited April 9 by flyercanuck 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 5 hours ago, flyercanuck said: He doesn't have to be generational. Tampa won three times with VLC and then Stamkos. Chicago 3 times with Kane. Carolina with Staal, Bruins Seguin, Kings twice with Doughty, Caps Ovechkin (you can call him a generational goal scorer, but certainly not hockey player), Avs MacKinnon. It's just nice to be able to roll out some high end talent. Especially in the playoffs. And especially especially on the pp...as we Flyer fans all well know. Like Adam Oates? Boy do I remember his Flyer career……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 54 minutes ago, flyerrod said: Like Adam Oates? Boy do I remember his Flyer career……. Adam Oates scored 1420 points in his illustrous NHL career. 10 of those points came as a Flyer. He's a perfect example of why you draft players, and enjoy their best years, before trading them off as they start to decline for a windfall of draft picks and/or prospects. Philadelphia has employed management who did the opposite. Giving up a 2- 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd for 10 points. Genius. Hence the no cups in 50 years. Edited April 9 by flyercanuck 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerrod Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 3 minutes ago, flyercanuck said: Adam Oates scored 1420 points in his illustrous NHL career. 10 of those points came as a Flyer. He's a perfect example of why you draft players, and enjoy their best years, before trading them off as they start to decline for a windfall of draft picks and/or prospects. Philadelphia has employed management who did the opposite. Hence the no cups in 50 years. That is where I was going with that. They traded away a kings ransom for those 10 points. How far did that set back the Flyers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFlyguy Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 But that Adam Oates playoff run (5 games) really taught the young players all about the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, SCFlyguy said: But that Adam Oates playoff run (5 games) really taught the young players all about the playoffs. Hey, now. He assisted on ALL THREE goals in that series. And the Flyers won a game! It was the goalie's fault... Top goalie prospect and the 1/2/3 draft picks to give the team a boost into the playoffs... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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