Lucic Runs Miller. (Video)

[Leach27]

I know Miller was way out of his net, but Lucic made no effort to avoid him. Pretty cheap imo. The next 5 times they play should be interesting. What if Myers decides to do the same thing to Thomas???

[murraycraven]

This wa Leach,

I know it was a cheap play but I honestly love the fact that lucic took the opp to make a run at miller. Miller is avery good goalie but you can get him off his game. This was a tough hockey play IMO... boston is a tough team and this type of play is why they are champs...

[ruxpin]

I know this has to be a penalty in the current league, but it shouldn't be. The guy came out to play a puck right in front of a guy that had skated full-speed down the entire ice. Lucic didn't "curl" because of the possibility maybe Miller misplays it. Hi a guy wearing a mask in the shoulder. I actually want to see more of that. Don't want to get hit? Stay in your crease! Want to come out and play the puck, that's fine, but be aware you could possibly get hit.

They're wearing more padding than everyone else and a full mask, what is the issue exactly? I mean, what the hell is the crease even for if they're going to be protected from playing hockey everywhere else on the ice as well?

[OzFlyer]

Miller out with concussion- http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380383

[HockeyFan]

Almost can't wait for the Shanny video on that one...

@ruxpin, I agree with you to a point, but then the infamous gray area known as official discussion will begin. Oh wait, that bus already left?

[Mad Dog]

Miller called Lucic a piece of ****. LOL. Lucic seemed to have given him an extra nudge, though. After having watched this video, I can understand Miller's anger. But he should've known better coming out of the crase so far. You have to expect a player skating at a high speed having difficulty stopping. But clearly Lucic made no effort to stop.

[Digityman]

I know this has to be a penalty in the current league, but it shouldn't be.

Exactly. The goalie should only be protected in his crease. Every where else, he is a skater and should be allowed to be hit within the rules.

[Digityman]

I wish that video was longer. Would love to hear what Jack Edwards Andy Brickley said about that. I can't stand Jack Edwards.

[canoli]

I almost don't believe Miller has a concussion - from that hit I mean. Actually forget "almost," I don't believe for a second that hit produced a concussion. WTF is Miller made of glass? Fk him. He's been a big crybaby ever since he's been in the League. Every damn interview with him - after a loss - it's always "we got a raw deal" - some variation of that. Let me repeat myself - Fk Ryan Miller. Great goalie yeah yeah, big deal.

I only wish we had Lucic. I love what he did. It was shoulder to shoulder as far as I can tell. And like rux said the friggn goalie is padded like the goddamn Michelin man these days - what is the fkng problem? Lucic got a minor for "not avoiding contact with the goalie" and that should be the end of it.

But I'll bet Shanny suspends him. I'll say 2 games. After all the crying the Sabres have been doing in the press + Shanny being suspension-happy ever since he took over... 2 games probably.

[Mad Dog]

He's been a big crybaby ever since he's been in the League. Every damn interview with him - after a loss - it's always "we got a raw deal" - some variation of that.

Well, does that really surprise you, though? He has a great role model in that department - his coach, who is the biggest complainer this league has ever seen.

And the whole rule is stupid anyway. I've always had a problem with that rule. The very sound of it (not avoiding contact with a goalie) just sounds really asinine. It's almost like there is an admission that there *may* be a contact. Doh? It's hockey - contact is a big part of this psport!! You don't want to be ran over? Stay the **** in your crease. When you are contacted with when in the crease - OK, maybe the league has a point. But this was a classic example of why this rule is so flawed. Why should there even be an effort made on a player's part to avoid the contact? I'd say if a goalie wants to play the puck, the burden is on *him* to avoid contact and not the other way around.

[radoran]

The only thing making a goalie "fair game" in this situation will do is improve Michael Leighton's job prospects.

A player is "fair game" when he has control of the puck and is skating with it - not the case here. You can't just willy-nilly barrel into players. Doubly so for goalies - and that's the way the game is called, not the way I made it. "Should" it be different? Makes no difference. It's not different.

Lucic made no attempt to play the puck OR avoid the hit. It was intentional and a penalty - regardless of who got hit or where the hit occurred.

[canoli]

A player is "fair game" when he has control of the puck and is skating with it - not the case here.

Lucic made no attempt to play the puck OR avoid the hit. It was intentional and a penalty - regardless of who got hit or where the hit occurred.

We're getting into split-second, freeze-frame territory here aren't we? This stuff is happening pdq. And I'm not so sure it was a penalty had it been 2 skaters.

Miller dumps the puck just before Lucic is on top of him; "Miller didn't have the puck" isn't a compelling argument in this case. He did have the puck, literally a split-second before the hit.

Did Lucic know he wouldn't get there in time to prevent Miller dumping it? Sure, I'll bet he did. Lucic wanted to hit Miller, simple as that. With all the scrapping those 2 were doing the whole game it's understandable. And let's face it Miller has always had an "active stick." He's good at bringing out the nasty in defenders and then complaining about it after the game.

Maybe this was beyond "incidental" but it was close. If that had been 2 skaters going for the puck I really doubt anything would've been called.

[radoran]

We're getting into split-second, freeze-frame territory here aren't we? This stuff is happening pdq. And I'm not so sure it was a penalty had it been 2 skaters.

Miller dumps the puck just before Lucic is on top of him; "Miller didn't have the puck" isn't a compelling argument in this case. He did have the puck, literally a split-second before the hit.

Did Lucic know he wouldn't get there in time to prevent Miller dumping it? Sure, I'll bet he did. Lucic wanted to hit Miller, simple as that. With all the scrapping those 2 were doing the whole game it's understandable. And let's face it Miller has always had an "active stick." He's good at bringing out the nasty in defenders and then complaining about it after the game.

Maybe this was beyond "incidental" but it was close. If that had been 2 skaters going for the puck I really doubt anything would've been called.

It's a fast game. That's the whole point. But, everyone knows how fast it is - including the players.

Lucic knew he wasn't going to get to the puck and he took the opportunity to take a shot at Miller.

If it had been a defenseman? An interesting question. I don't think that any part of the play happens the same way. A defenseman would be expected to be able to either play or possess and move the puck or deliver a hit right back and Lucic would have to play that - or at least acknowledge that - when it's quite clear that a goalie (Miller) won't be doing anything but clearing the puck.

Look at Lucic's stick - is this a guy who is playing for the puck if Miller whiffs on the pass? No. Lucic has lined Miller up "long before" (in split second terms) he gets there.

Shanahan may have said that Lucic didn't "intend" to hit Miller - but if he didn't, I'm not sure what else he was "intending" to do.

[canoli]

well those are all good points - a D-man certainly would've played it differently. And I don't understand Shanny's reasoning any more than you do; I fully expected a 2-game suspension for that hit.

This League is really goofy sometimes. Now we're getting into guy's heads, trying to determine their "intent?" Good luck with that.

Trying to figure what the guy was thinking...? Come on. So Shanahan interviews Lucic and he's "satisfied with his answers." Well duh. Really? You mean Lucic didn't admit "I wanted to take his fkng head off for hacking away at me all game."

[Vanflyer]

I know this has to be a penalty in the current league, but it shouldn't be. The guy came out to play a puck right in front of a guy that had skated full-speed down the entire ice. Lucic didn't "curl" because of the possibility maybe Miller misplays it. Hi a guy wearing a mask in the shoulder. I actually want to see more of that. Don't want to get hit? Stay in your crease! Want to come out and play the puck, that's fine, but be aware you could possibly get hit.

They're wearing more padding than everyone else and a full mask, what is the issue exactly? I mean, what the hell is the crease even for if they're going to be protected from playing hockey everywhere else on the ice as well?

I could not agree more. Its incredulous to me all these people that are protecting Miller. Now, I don't condone running the goalie when he is in his crease, but when he is out of the the trapezoid / crease, he is fair game to me.

How people forget Hextall, Resch and Billy Smith. These guys would go to make hockey players and acted just like one, not a pansy. They would take and give hits.

[Vanflyer]

The only thing making a goalie "fair game" in this situation will do is improve Michael Leighton's job prospects.

A player is "fair game" when he has control of the puck and is skating with it - not the case here. You can't just willy-nilly barrel into players. Doubly so for goalies - and that's the way the game is called, not the way I made it. "Should" it be different? Makes no difference. It's not different.

Lucic made no attempt to play the puck OR avoid the hit. It was intentional and a penalty - regardless of who got hit or where the hit occurred.

Rad- no offense, but your point is invalid. Watch the play again. Miller skated to below the circle PLAYED the puck will an attacker was skating full bore to get to the puck and got leveled just after he shot the puck into the glass. If you don't like the hit, fine, but don't say its because Miller did not play the puck, because he did AND he knew that Lucic was barreling in after pursuit of the puck. What did miller think was going to happen??? That Lucic was just going to bear off and not pursue and give Miller and easy out??

[Vanflyer]

Lucic made no attempt to play the puck OR avoid the hit. It was intentional and a penalty - regardless of who got hit or where the hit occurred.

Rad- you really need to watch that video again. Lucic loses control of the puck and is in full speed pursuit. Miller comes out to try and get the puck first- and does. He quickly flips the puck to the boards- just as Lucic gets there and gets nailed. To me its a completely legit hockey play.

[radoran]

Rad- you really need to watch that video again. Lucic loses control of the puck and is in full speed pursuit. Miller comes out to try and get the puck first- and does. He quickly flips the puck to the boards- just as Lucic gets there and gets nailed. To me its a completely legit hockey play.

I scrolled up and rewatched several times before posting.

Lucic clearly is pursuing the puck as he crosses the blue line. As he nears Miller (before the top of the circle, with Miller approaching the dot) he moves his stick to the left - away from the puck - and clearly slams directly into Miller.

He even stops moving his skates.

He is not pursuing the puck at that point - he's lining Miller up from the top of the circle to the dot.

It's a legit hockey play on *any player but the goalie* because Lucic knows damn well that he's not going to take a hit from Miller. He knows that Miller's not going to attempt to do anything like stickhandle - he's simply going to clear the puck aside.

Lucic doesn't even follow the puck AFTER MILLER HITS IT - he's STILL looking at Miller on the ice with the puck near the boards BEHIND HIM.

If Lucic comes in with his stick on the ice hoping for a Miller whiff on the puck, that's one thing.

He's not. He'd clearly given up on puck pursuit and clearly, IMO, intended to hit Miller..

[Vanflyer]

Lucic clearly is pursuing the puck as he crosses the blue line. As he nears Miller (before the top of the circle, with Miller approaching the dot) he moves his stick to the left - away from the puck - and clearly slams directly into Miller.

He even stops moving his skates.

He is not pursuing the puck at that point - he's lining Miller up from the top of the circle to the dot.

Okay- fair enough. But the point is this on my end: Miller charged out to get the puck and Lucic was charging in. In regards to stop skating, that is a god send- could you imagine if Lucic kept skating??

In the end, it is a hockey play. I mean what if it is someone like timmo coming from the other wing trying to get there and and at the last SECOND get there and flips the puck to the glass?

You have your points and I have mine.

At the end of the day, my opinion is that ANY player that plays the puck (with exception of the goalies in either crease or trapezoid) is fare game. Miller was a 3rd defensemen there. If he does not want to get nailed, stay in the crease. Let Luci retrieve the puck and see if the defense can stop the trailers or catch up to him. If he does not want to do that and challenge the play, he is fair game- plain and simple.

Truth be told, I would have done the EXACT same thing Lucic did.

Back in the days of Roy, Hextall, Smith, Resch and others it wouldn't even be a topic today. I also could name 30 other goalies / teams through the history that would have pummeled Lucic for doing that (thereby prohibiting the hitting of the goalie), but that will digress this thread.

[canoli]

my opinion is that ANY player that plays the puck (with exception of the goalies in either crease or trapezoid) is fare game.

I agree with you but of course the rule specifically protects the goaltender when he's outside the crease.

I'm surprised (but not disappointed) Lucic isn't serving a suspension for that hit. Shanahan's reasoning for not doling one out - "Lucic's intent..." whatever Lucic said to convince Shanahan it wasn't suspension-worthy - is particularly troubling if the idea is to establish clear guidelines for the players.

If it's "make it up as you go" - the way it was under Campbell - then we're fine.

As much as I'm glad Campbell is out of that job, Shanahan seems to be carrying on the tradition of making very little sense of the "supplementary discipline" department.

[ruxpin]

We're getting into split-second, freeze-frame territory here aren't we? This stuff is happening pdq. And I'm not so sure it was a penalty had it been 2 skaters.

Miller dumps the puck just before Lucic is on top of him; "Miller didn't have the puck" isn't a compelling argument in this case. He did have the puck, literally a split-second before the hit.

I agree. The call was "charging." It wasn't charging unless it's some magical nonsensical interpretation because it was a goalie. They want to call "interference" because the puck left a split second before? Fine. Still the wrong call, but at least it's borderline justifiable. If Carle, for example, had run out there in front of him and cleared the puck the same way and Lucic hits him, no one's talking about it.

If Miller wants to avoid bruised ovaries, he should stay in his crease.

[radoran]

I agree. The call was "charging." It wasn't charging unless it's some magical nonsensical interpretation because it was a goalie. They want to call "interference" because the puck left a split second before? Fine. Still the wrong call, but at least it's borderline justifiable. If Carle, for example, had run out there in front of him and cleared the puck the same way and Lucic hits him, no one's talking about it.

If Miller wants to avoid bruised ovaries, he should stay in his crease.

I'd be quite happy with a rule restricting the goalie's movements - even beyond the "trapezoid" and crease.

I can totally see where this is a "regular hockey play" - except that the goalie is involved. The question of "should Lucic be able to hit Miller" in that situation is academic. The refs are going to call a penalty if you make absolutely no effort to avoid contact. That's the rule. Is it how it "should" be? I'd say that the goalie should have extra protection, yes. For many reasons which have been amply cited in this thread.

Again, goalies restricted to a certain area outside the crease? I could work with that. Hell, I think we'd have done better if some of our goalies were harnessed to the net.

If Lucic runs Bryzgalov like that, gets a two minute, knocks Bryz out for several games (and counting) and gets no suspension I have a feeling many would be citing some sort of league vendetta against the Flyers.

And if Shanahan doesn't think that Lucic "intended" to hit Miller - which is what the "he has every right to make that hit" argument implies and the League has explicitly states DID NOT happen - then what on God's green Earth was Lucic intending to do??

[radoran]

some additional points from here:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/The-NHL-doesn-8217-t-need-to-further-coddle-ov;_ylt=AvgVimf058WXMWpPXyD06jN7vLYF?urn=nhl-wp17575

Again - not arguing whether the rules are "right" or "wrong," rather noting that they are, in fact, rules.

Goalies are not currently "fair game," according to Rule 42.1 Charging:

A goalkeeper is not "fair game" just because he is outside the

goal crease area

. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an opposing player makes unnecessary contact with a goalkeeper. However, incidental contact, at the discretion of the Referee, will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact.

And according to 69.4 Interference On The Goaltender:

If an attacking player initiates any contact with a goalkeeper, other than incidental contact, while the goalkeeper is outside his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

A goalkeeper is not "fair game" just

because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such unnecessary contact.

Does anybody see Lucic making "reasonable effort to avoid such contact"? How about ANY effort whatsoever?

The primary argument here is that Lucic had "every right" to hit Miller. While the NHL argues that Lucic not only made reasonable efforts to avoid the contact, in fact he had no intent to hit Miller whatsoever.

I find both positions bizarre to say the least.

I am in full agreement with Wyshynski that they don't need more rules to protect goalies.

They already have them. They just need to be enforced. And respected.

[Digityman]

This is pretty funny.

[Digityman]

Follow-up