FLYERS SIGN WEBER TO MASSIVE OFFER SHEET

[jkearse123]

Philly can still trade for Weber before the Nsh doomsday counter hits zero. I'll be interested in seeing how any trade scenario worth Weber is better for Philly than four (hopefully) late first round picks.

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20120726T00&p0=198&msg=WEBER%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21%3F%21

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

http://www.timeandda...%21%3F%21%3F%21

LOL. Nice!

[sarsippius]

Help me out here people i'm reading this thread and think i've seen multiple instances where people are suggesting we trade with NSH if they don't match ? is this what i'm reading , because if it is, those typing it ought to have their heads examined. if they don't match , he's on our team, enjoy drafting late in the first for 4 years Dave.

if they do match; weber can't be traded for a year, right now the flyers have him under the offer sheet contract where as the Preds have nothing but the ability to match the deal.

if they don't match the offer screw them, there's no trade back bs, weber's a flyer, and look out eastern conference.

do i have this scenario wrong ?

Well, the thought is that Homer has been trying to work a trade with Poile, got tired of waiting, and the offer sheet forces his hand. Poile can posture that will/can/wants to match the offer sheet, but tell Homer he'll hold that action in abeyance if Homer offers up certain players. Think back to the Gratton deal - Gratton signed the offer sheet, and in a two step deal Espo basically didn't match and Clarkie traded Espo players in exchange for some of draft picks back.

Edit:

In a way what Homer has done is strengthen his bargaining position, AND gotten exclusive trading rights.

[Mad Dog]

@mojo1917

I think here is a scenario people are referring to...

Let's say the Preds don't match and Weber is officially a Flyer. Well, logically, at that point it's over and there is nothing else to be decided between Philadelphia and Nashville.... Or so it seems... But that's on the surface. In reality, there are some possible implications. Nashville, at that point, has multiple first round picks and a huge void in cap space, which, I am sure, they would want to fill. So what they can do is convert those picks - either directly *through* the Flyers or some other team - to actual players.

For all we know, there may have been already an agreement between David Poile and Holmgren that as soon as the week expires and Poile doesn't match, the picks (either some of them or all of them) go back to the Flyers in exchange for players. That actually makes sense for both teams, at least monetarily: the Preds would get some players back and the Flyers would shed salaries to bring them back to the cap... I didn't do the math yet, but something tells me the Flyers would be over the cap with this contract and the need to sign Voracek.

I am not saying this is what's going to happen, but I think this is what people refer to when they say the Flyers would trade with Nashville.

[JackStraw]

Help me out here people i'm reading this thread and think i've seen multiple instances where people are suggesting we trade with NSH if they don't match ? is this what i'm reading , because if it is, those typing it ought to have their heads examined. if they don't match , he's on our team, enjoy drafting late in the first for 4 years Dave.

if they do match; weber can't be traded for a year, right now the flyers have him under the offer sheet contract where as the Preds have nothing but the ability to match the deal.

if they don't match the offer screw them, there's no trade back bs, weber's a flyer, and look out eastern conference.

do i have this scenario wrong ?

If there is a trade, it would most likely be something Homer and Poile work out in advance. Poile can say "I'll match your offer sheet unless we work out a deal". If Homer really, really wants Weber (and doesn't want to completely screw a fellow GM) he may be tempted to go for it if the price isn't too high. Also, although I'm not sure of the exact situation, I would think the Flyers may need to shed some salary to get under the cap if they wind up with Weber.

Edited July 20, 2012 by JackStraw

[sarsippius]

@Mad Dog

@JackStraw

You said it much more eloquently

[JackStraw]

@mojo1917

I think here is a scenario people are referring to...

Let's say the Preds don't match and Weber is officially a Flyer. Well, logically, at that point it's over and there is nothing else to be decided between Philadelphia and Nashville.... Or so it seems... But that's on the surface. In reality, there are some possible implications. Nashville, at that point, has multiple first round picks and a huge void in cap space, which, I am sure, they would want to fill. So what they can do is convert those picks - either directly *through* the Flyers or some other team - to actual players.

For all we know, there may have been already an agreement between David Poile and Holmgren that as soon as the week expires and Poile doesn't match, the picks (either some of them or all of them) go back to the Flyers in exchange for players. That actually makes sense for both teams, at least monetarily: the Preds would get some players back and the Flyers would shed salaries to bring them back to the cap... I didn't do the math yet, but something tells me the Flyers would be over the cap with this contract and the need to sign Voracek.

I am not saying this is what's going to happen, but I think this is what people refer to when they say the Flyers would trade with Nashville.

I think the scenario you describe is very likely.

[AJgoal]

According to capgeek, the Weber deal puts the Flyers at the cap exactly. 4.9 million in LTIR relief for Pronger. Still room to sign Bourdon and Voracek.

[Mad Dog]

@Mad Dog

You said it much more eloquently

Thanks for the kind words, sir!

And again, this is just my humble take on this... we'll find out in a week or even earlier.

[AJgoal]

Per Flyers Central, Poile to have a meeting with ownership tomorrow morning.Expected to last several hours.

[doom88]

no, i don't believe they can. once an offersheet is signed, the player involved can not be traded. the only two scenarios are the predators match, or they don't.

You may be right, unless there's more to it than this, which isn't really a stretch with the complexities of the CBA:

10.3 Offer Sheet and First Refusal Procedures.

(a) When a Restricted Free Agent receives an offer to sign an SPC from any Club (the "New Club") other than his Prior Club, which offer the Player desires to accept, he shall give to the Prior Club, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, a completed certificate substantially in the form of Exhibit 6 attached hereto (the "Offer Sheet"), signed by the Restricted Free Agent and the New Club, which shall contain the "Principal Terms" (as defined below) as well as all other terms of compensation of the New Club's offer. The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after the date it receives the Offer Sheet, 35 may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, which shall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted Free Agent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign its Right of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.

[aziz]

@Polaris922

i get what you are saying, weber is a defense-first dman and letang is an offense-first one, and in your mind the offense-first guy gets the nod. which, not sure i agree, but...valid point of view.

still, the fact that weber's game is defense first does not by itself diminish his offensive ability. letang was on a 67 point pace last season, by far his best. playing on a roster that included malkin, neal, and crosby there at the end. weber's 49 points came with a squad led by martin erat and david legwand. give weber forward lines with giroux and friends, and mark him down for an extra 15 points, minimum.

letang might have the offensive edge, but not by a ton. given weber's decided edge defensively, and....tough to really point to letang over him, isn't it?

[JackStraw]

@Polaris922

i get what you are saying, weber is a defense-first dman and letang is an offense-first one, and in your mind the offense-first guy gets the nod. which, not sure i agree, but...valid point of view.

still, the fact that weber's game is defense first does not by itself diminish his offensive ability. letang was on a 67 point pace last season, by far his best. playing on a roster that included malkin, neal, and crosby there at the end. weber's 49 points came with a squad led by martin erat and david legwand. give weber forward lines with giroux and friends, and mark him down for an extra 15 points, minimum.

letang might have the offensive edge, but not by a ton. given weber's decided edge defensively, and....tough to really point to letang over him, isn't it?

I'm not sure that's an accurate assessment of Weber. I have seen more than one description of the relative roles of Weber and Suter saying that Weber is (was) the more offensively minded while Suter is more defensively solid. The fact that Weber is more physical (by a longshot) may lead to the impression that he's a "defense first" guy. I've never thought of him that way.

If you want a comparison, I'd say Weber is similar to Denis Potvin. Brings excellent offensive skills and hits like a truck.

[OccamsRazor]

You may be right, unless there's more to it than this, which isn't really a stretch with the complexities of the CBA:

Well the Preds need to spend 14 million more just to get to the cap floor, not sure if they want to put all those eggs in one basket...depends on how many holes they need to fill...by cap geek they only have 12 forwards signed and 4 defensemen...that is a few holes....

Edit:Preds GM David Poile has indicated previously that the biggest mistake of his career was letting Scott Stevens go via an offer sheet while he was GM of the Capitals. This will play a part in this situation

Edited July 20, 2012 by OccamsRazor

[hf101]

Considering Poile and Holmgren have a good trade history together, what's to say if Poile said to Holmgren to give Weber an offer sheet and structure the offer in a way that the Nashville couldn't match but looks good in the eyes of the fans. If you read some of the comments on the fan forums, tsn and yahoo, some preds fans are hoping Poile doesn't match the offer. Nashville has a lot of young defensemen in their system so whether they lose Weber this season or next year for nothing. If Weber really wanted to stay in Nashville he would have signed a long term deal by now and Poile wouldn't have been shopping him around this summer. I think Weber told Poile he wasn't going to resign long-term in Nashville, so Poile knew that Philly needed a number one defenseman and weren't going to gut their team to trade for Weber so they tried to make a deal but couldn't, so an offer sheet was a last resort. This way it controls to a certain extent as not having Weber end up in Detroit or another western team.

And it also controls that Weber doesn't end up in any of the other Eastern teams also. I can see Nashville telling their fans something like "in order to keep Weber we would need to double our ticket prices, this is something that we prefer not to do" and as you say they do have a number of defensive prospects in their system. Who knows Holmgren and Poile could have have another deal in mind to send them Lilja, Bourdon, or maybe Mezsaros, of which I hope not.

[OccamsRazor]

And it also controls that Weber doesn't end up in any of the other Eastern teams also. I can see Nashville telling their fans something like "in order to keep Weber we would need to double our ticket prices, this is something that we prefer not to do" and as you say they do have a number of defensive prospects in their system. Who knows Holmgren and Poile could have have another deal in mind to send them Lilja, Bourdon, or maybe Mezsaros, of which I hope not.

Well you'd think if they are truly friends like reported, Homer maybe feels some what guilty (just a little) he is robbing a friend after he just lost a huge UFA talk about kicking a man when he is down...and it could cost Poile his job in the end.

So with that said leverage looks to have swung to the Flyers and Homer and him might be already got something kinda already hammered out. Yet at the same time the Preds are in this situation because they gambled and lost.

I just don't won't to lose Coots or the Schenn brothers in the after math...love the youth...

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

So, if Nashville does not match, does Homer trade some players to Nashville for the cap space and then sign Shane Doan? Holy Schnike!

[jammer2]

@JackStraw I don't think Weber is quite a dynamic as Potvin, but nonetheless a respectable comparison. Denis was a mean SOB when he wanted to be, same as Shea. Weber is no slouch in the shooting dept, but Potvin had a bit more mustard on his shot if I remember correctly. I know Weber did great at the All Star game Skills comp at the shap shot (think he was second with 107 mph or something like that....to bad we didn't have that competition during the 70's...would have loved to see the MHP of Reggie (the rifle) Leach's slap shot.....or Potvin, Lafleur, or even Robinson. I remember a Shoot Out segment in the 70's on Hockey Night In Canada, but we never had a slap shot contest....that would have been super cool.

[hf101]

So, if Nashville does not match, does Homer trade some players to Nashville for the cap space and then sign Shane Doan? Holy Schnike!

They need to sure up Voracek first. I fully expect Doan to sign with the Coyotes.

[jammer2]

I know one thing, the fantasy value of Ryan Ellis and Roman Josi just went through the roof with Weber and Suter leaving Nashville!!

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

Weber is no slouch in the shooting dept, but Potvin had a bit more mustard on his shot if I remember correctly.

Weber is the only person I've ever seen put the puck through the net when the net was not torn. I still have no idea how that happened!

[Mad Dog]

I fully expect Doan to sign with the Coyotes.

What makes you so sure? Playes go where the money is. If some other team offers him twice as much as Phoenix is willing to pay, he would be a fool not to take the advantage.

[JackStraw]

@JackStraw I don't think Weber is quite a dynamic as Potvin, but nonetheless a respectable comparison. Denis was a mean SOB when he wanted to be, same as Shea. Weber is no slouch in the shooting dept, but Potvin had a bit more mustard on his shot if I remember correctly. I know Weber did great at the All Star game Skills comp at the shap shot (think he was second with 107 mph or something like that....to bad we didn't have that competition during the 70's...would have loved to see the MHP of Reggie (the rifle) Leach's slap shot.....or Potvin, Lafleur, or even Robinson. I remember a Shoot Out segment in the 70's on Hockey Night In Canada, but we never had a slap shot contest....that would have been super cool.

I agree jammer, Potvin is one of the top five all time d-men in my opinion (hated his damn guts but have to give credit where it's due) and Weber is not at that level and likely never will be. But similar kind of player imo. Weber shot one through the back of the net at the AS competition, that's plenty hard enough for me. It would keep Hartnell on his toes for sure.

[jkearse123]

Weber is the only person I've ever seen put the puck through the net when the net was not torn. I still have no idea how that happened!

edit

103.4

Edited July 20, 2012 by jkearse123

[AJgoal]

Did he ever break the boards with a shot, though?