Video 2013 Bryzgalov Evaluation Thread (Buyout or no)

[radoran]

By "even rad" I'm sure you mean "even a reasonable analysis of what actually happened."

I wouldn't have called it "stealing a game" by any stretch. "Did the job required" would be in line with what happened.

[mojo1917]

@canoli

yeah i do think he stole that game, i thought the canes had the better scoring opportunities and more of them... this is anecdotal on my part because i did not look at a stat sheet , which is easy enough, they were the better skating team and e staal's line abused whomever they were out against. i thought there were long stretches where the flyers couldn't clear the d zone and bryz didn't fold and gave his mates a chance,

i thought the canes out played the flyers, they out shot the flyers by 18 shots and that's not counting the 30+ blocks the flyers had. That's a lot of time in the offensive zone for the canes, i thought bryz was the difference. i'm used to the flyers being the team that has that result from a strong effort but are thwarted by the hot goaltender.

[Bakanekimiwa]

so... against the lightning tonight... seems to be irrefutably a 'great' game by Bryz. no?

[brelic]

Yes, against the Lightning, Bryz was great.

One thing that needs to be defined is 'stealing' a game. There are too many nebulous terms in this thread for any sort of objective evaluation. 'Good', 'Great', 'Average'... we need to quantify them.

Stats-wise, Bryz's GAA of 2.24 puts him 12th and his save% of .924 puts him 11th.

Goalies ahead of him on both counts include Anderson, Luongo, Ellis (yes, *that* Dan Ellis), Vokoun, and Niemi.

How do we want to define 'average'? The 'average' of team-based GAA? The average of the top 30 goaltenders? The average of all eligible goaltenders (who have played the requisite amount of minimum games)?

[AndyS]

Do we have any idea of what goalies would be available this Summer.? Are we thinking trade or Free agent? I don't think there is many goalies that would blow your socks off. I am thinking Bernier on LA would be attainable, but would cost us one of your young guys. What do u guys think?

Bernier is the guy that Homer should try to acquire. No doubt.

[radoran]

I'd say that between last night and the Rangers win, Bryz has "stolen" four points.

That's half of the team's points, just for the record...

[AndyS]

Yes, against the Lightning, Bryz was great.

One thing that needs to be defined is 'stealing' a game. There are too many nebulous terms in this thread for any sort of objective evaluation. 'Good', 'Great', 'Average'... we need to quantify them.

Stats-wise, Bryz's GAA of 2.24 puts him 12th and his save% of .924 puts him 11th.

Goalies ahead of him on both counts include Anderson, Luongo, Ellis (yes, *that* Dan Ellis), Vokoun, and Niemi.

How do we want to define 'average'? The 'average' of team-based GAA? The average of the top 30 goaltenders? The average of all eligible goaltenders (who have played the requisite amount of minimum games)?

Does the Flyers' style of play factor into his stats at all? I think it has to.

[mojo1917]

@AndyS

@brelic

I absolutely think the play of the flyers must be factored in when we're talking about stealing a game.

I seem to be standing alone when i say that Bryz was the reason we beat Carolina the other night, the Flyers were badly outplayed for long stretches of that game , Bryz kept the canes off the board and the PP was highly opportunistic. with out bryz playing at a high level that game would have been a blow out for the canes.

out shot 42-24 with 32 blocks by the flyers tells me that bryz stood tall.

[radoran]

@AndyS

@brelic

I absolutely think the play of the flyers must be factored in when we're talking about stealing a game.

I seem to be standing alone when i say that Bryz was the reason we beat Carolina the other night, the Flyers were badly outplayed for long stretches of that game , Bryz kept the canes off the board and the PP was highly opportunistic. with out bryz playing at a high level that game would have been a blow out for the canes.

out shot 42-24 with 32 blocks by the flyers tells me that bryz stood tall.

So, for those of you following along at home, that's 6 of 8 points the goalie has "stolen."

.750

Can the offense catch up?

[brelic]

Does the Flyers' style of play factor into his stats at all? I think it has to.

Good point. I don't know about general style, but definitely the style in any given game. For example, in the Carolina game, the Flyers scored 5 goals, 3 of them on the PP. But they allowed their goalie to be peppered with 42 shots, and he kept his team's lead alive when he was called upon. So, did he 'steal' that game?

What about last night? He made many excellent saves, but his team also kept TB to HALF the shots they allowed the Canes, and the Bolts have the league's highest GPG average at 4.88. So, he played excellent, but his team also played solid defensive hockey, collapsed around him, and limited the amount of shots he had to face. Did he 'steal' that game?

[mojo1917]

@brelic

i say he won the game vs the bolts but stole the game vs the canes.

regardless, he's playing at a high level now , good enough for a healthy roster to make a run and make some noise.

[Digityman]

Game #9 - Lightning vs Flyers - 2/6/2013

Goal #1 - Defensive breakdown. Not his fault.

This was a great game by Bryz.

Season Total:

Great Games: 2

Good Games: 4

Average Games: 3

Below Average Games: 0

View Game #8

View Game #10, #11, #12, #13

------------------------------------------------

@brelic @mojo1917 @radoran @Bakanekimiwa @canoli

I agree with Brelic that there needs to be some criteria for Great, Good, Average & Below Average.

The problem is if you base it on stats, the team could be at fault not Bryz.

The rational I've been using:

Great - Performed like an elite goalie at the top of their game | Top 5 goalie | $5m+ salary

Good - Performed better than an average starting NHL goalie | Top 5-12 goalie | $3m - 5m salary

Average - Performed like an average | Top 13-20 | $2-3m salary

Below Average - Performed worse than an average NHL goalie | Bottom 20-30 | <$2m salary

Give some feedback, change the terms or definitions....

-----------------------------------------------------

[canoli]

Last night was truly a great game by Bryzgalov imo, a complete game. I haven't ever seen Brzygalov look so intimidating and so in control of a game.

That save on Stamkos (few mins left in the 1st) - who knew Bryzgalov could move that fast side-to-side? ha. Maybe he just anticipated the pass so well...either way his focus was unbreakable last night.

Yep...always liked that guy...Bryzgalov...

[brelic]

The rational I've been using:

Great - Performed like an elite goalie at the top of their game | Top 5 goalie | $5m+ salary

Good - Performed better than an average starting NHL goalie | Top 5-12 goalie | $3m - 5m salary

Average - Performed like an average | Top 13-20 | $2-3m salary

Below Average - Performed worse than an average NHL goalie | Bottom 20-30 | <$2m salary

I'm wondering if we can throw some metrics in there:

God-like (i.e. stole a game): Performed > 10 highlight reel / very high difficulty saves and was the clear difference between his team winning and losing. NOTE: Team is not required to win for this category to apply. Think Halak a few years ago in the Montreal playoff run before they hit the Flyers.

Great: Performed a few highlight reel saves (e.g. Bryz's glove save on Stamkos), and a number of high difficulty saves (>= 5). Was a factor in the outcome regardless of how the team in front of him played (e.g. either kept his team alive for the victory, or kept the game from getting out of hand when his team didn't show up).

Good: Performed a few high difficulty saves (< 5) and made the routine stops look easy. May have had a few lapses in judgment or allowed a bad goal, but overall solid performance. The team in front of him may have gained a little momentum from his play (breakaway save, SH saves, etc), but he was not the determining factor in the outcome.

Average: Was not challenged with high difficulty shots, or if he was, he did not stop them. Made the routine stops he had to but may have allowed a few questionable goals. An otherwise unremarkable performance in which the team did not gain any momentum from his play, and he was not a factor either way (victory or loss).

Below average: He did not stop the high difficulty shots, for which he cannot be blamed, but also failed to stop routine shots (low traffic, unobstructed views). Most or all of the goals against would likely not happen against most NHL goaltenders on most nights. The team is noticeably affected by his poor play (tentative, mental mistakes, collapsing back on the goaltender, etc). He was a primary factor in the outcome against his team.

Just some thoughts...

[Bakanekimiwa]

Does the Flyers' style of play factor into his stats at all? I think it has to.

the massive breakdowns we're having on D are causing so many breakaways, 2 on 0s .... it's just Bryz is not just being asked to make the 'normal' saves here. maybe that's why he's excelling this season, it's closer to the bad teams he had in front of him in the desert.

[hf101]

The rational I've been using:

Great - Performed like an elite goalie at the top of their game | Top 5 goalie | $5m+ salary

Good - Performed better than an average starting NHL goalie | Top 5-12 goalie | $3m - 5m salary

Average - Performed like an average | Top 13-20 | $2-3m salary

Below Average - Performed worse than an average NHL goalie | Bottom 20-30 | <$2m salary

I disagree,

There are other factors that affect the goalie pay scale.

A goalie in their prime with playoff experience, a candidate for the Vezina trophy, and a Stanley Cup ring will make more money than the goalie coming into their prime. One third of the NHL goalies make at least 5M. Twenty-two currently make at least 3.5M. The remaining 8 are generally making less than 3.5M because they are still RFA's

Quick, Rinne, and Lundqvist who you should agree that are elite goalies have contracts signed to close to a cap hit of 7M,

Bryz's contract is for 5.6M on a team that can afford to spend to the cap limit. Bryz is being paid to be a good consistent goalie with the occasional "steal a game for the team" viewpoint.

Edited February 7, 2013 by hf101
added material

[Polaris922]

Gotta agree with @radoran , @mojo1917 , and any other Bryzgalov's supporters in this thread. Without him your boys have been sewage this season. You owe him what points you have minus the FLA game.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Polaris922

[radoran]

To be clear, I'm not "supporting" any parpticular player. I am analyzing what I see on the ice. I don't care about "Bryzgalov" at all. I care about the Flyers goaltender's play and the team's play in front of him.

If he gets lost in the humongous universe again and the birds eat the bread crumb trail in the forest I don't care if his husky is attractive or not.

[Polaris922]

To be clear, I'm not "supporting" any parpticular player. I am analyzing what I see on the ice. I don't care about "Bryzgalov" at all. I care about the Flyers goaltender's play and the team's play in front of him.

If he gets lost in the humongous universe again and the birds eat the bread crumb trail in the forest I don't care if his husky is attractive or not.

By posting his stats which rightfully defend his play this season is supporting him but with reason and clarity is my point. I didn't mean to imply you wanted to keep or discard him, only that his play has been strong for your boys.

[Hextall27]

This may be a dumb idea, but I've been wondering, could the team buyout Bryzgalov so he essentially "gets his money" then sign him to a league minimum (or something like that) for a better cap scenario for the Flyers?

[Polaris922]

This may be a dumb idea, but I've been wondering, could the team buyout Bryzgalov so he essentially "gets his money" then sign him to a league minimum (or something like that) for a better cap scenario for the Flyers?

I'd like to think they wrote something down to prevent such moves to get around the cap. But I dunno if they did...

[Bakanekimiwa]

I'm gonna say it was an excellent game by Bryz tonight. very solid, kept them in the game.

[canoli]

yeah Bak, as much as I've ragged on him I should chime in say he's been excellent for us this year. Last night was one of his best.

[Digityman]

A few games here to get caught up.

Game #10 - 2/7/13 - Panthers vs Flyers:

Goal #1 - Screen shot but had a chance at it.

Goal #2 - You couldn't even see Bryz, so there is no way Bryz saw the puck.

Shoutout - Bryz hasn't stopped a 1 on 1 all year....

Result: Good

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Game #11 - Carolina vs Flyers

Goal #1 - Shot from the point. Bad rebound. Bad defense.

Goal #2 - Great shot by Skinner. Bryz might have went into the butterfly a little early.

Goal #3 - Shot from the point. Screened again. Not much he can do.

Result: Good

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Game #12 - Flyers vs Leafs

Goal #1 - Point shot, screen. Not his fault.

Goal #2 - Bad rebound out front. Poor coverage.

Goal #3 - Shot from the point going wide, tipped in. Poor coverage.

Goal #4 - Had no shot at it. 2 on 1 down low. Piss poor coverage.

He made a few saves to keep it from being a complete blow-out but the whole team was flat.

Result - Good

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Game #13 - Flyers vs Jets

Goal #1 - Poor coverage. Great shot. Might have went down a little early but that's not his fault at all.

Goal #2 - Poor coverage. Great shot. Quick 2 on 1 down low. He needed to slide across. Not his fault.

Bryz made a few great saves and I believe won this for the Flyers who at times look listless in the tale-end of a back to back.

Result: Great

Current Season Total:

God-like Games: 0

Great Games: 4

Good Games: 7

Average Games: 2

Below Average Games: 0

View Game #9 Video

View Game #13 Video

This is the new guidelines moving forward. The season's results have been altered to reflect this:

God-like (i.e. stole a game): Performed > 10 highlight reel / very high difficulty saves and was the clear difference between his team winning and losing. NOTE: Team is not required to win for this category to apply. Think Halak a few years ago in the Montreal playoff run before they hit the Flyers.

Great: Performed a few highlight reel saves (e.g. Bryz's glove save on Stamkos), and a number of high difficulty saves (>= 5). Was a factor in the outcome regardless of how the team in front of him played (e.g. either kept his team alive for the victory, or kept the game from getting out of hand when his team didn't show up).

Good: Performed a few high difficulty saves (< 5) and made the routine stops look easy. May have had a few lapses in judgment or allowed a bad goal, but overall solid performance. The team in front of him may have gained a little momentum from his play (breakaway save, SH saves, etc), but he was not the determining factor in the outcome.

Average: Was not challenged with high difficulty shots, or if he was, he did not stop them. Made the routine stops he had to but may have allowed a few questionable goals. An otherwise unremarkable performance in which the team did not gain any momentum from his play, and he was not a factor either way (victory or loss).

Below average: He did not stop the high difficulty shots, for which he cannot be blamed, but also failed to stop routine shots (low traffic, unobstructed views). Most or all of the goals against would likely not happen against most NHL goaltenders on most nights. The team is noticeably affected by his poor play (tentative, mental mistakes, collapsing back on the goaltender, etc). He was a primary factor in the outcome against his team.

[radoran]

OK, I'm putting the Devils loss on Bryz.

That said, I'll put this down as "average goalie" because I don't think he was tremendously awful and did do some good things controlling the puck in front.

4 goals on 18 shots against a division rival and scoring three goals on Brodeur you have to come away with something.

Second goal should have been stopped. Possibly one of two others.

I'm not sure we need him to play tomorrow in Montreal. I'd give him a breather.