Giroux rips Flyers after loss

[pilldoc]

http://www.philly.co.../191561511.html

Sam Carchidi, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Posted: Saturday, February 16, 2013, 9:56 PM

MONTREAL - For the offensively challenged Flyers, Operation Roadkill continued Saturday night.

They managed just 19 shots and dropped a 4-1 decision to the Montreal Canadiens at the Bell Centre, falling to 2-8 on the road this season.

Afterward, captain Claude Giroux called out the team.

"It's not acceptable the way we played tonight," he said. "It's not just two or three guys. It's the whole team. . . . We didn't show up."

Giroux said the Flyers aren't winning enough battles, aren't competing hard enough.

"We're just going through the motions." (That pretty much sums up the state of the team.)

Coach Peter Laviolette refused to comment on Giroux's remark. (Because he knows its true)

"We have to show a little bit more emotion," said center Danny Briere, who scored the Flyers' lone goal. Briere added he has been on teams that have gone through similar struggles. "And there's only one way out, and it's to keep sticking together, to keep working hard. Maybe we have to want it a little more and things will turn around at some point."

In a battle of backup goalies, Montreal's Peter Budaj outdueled Brian Boucher. Not that the Flyers gave Budaj much work. Their attack was out of sync all night, and their power play was ineffective. (They have been out of sync the entire year. Can we just decline PP's from now on?)

Montreal (9-4-1) took control as Thomas Plekanec scored on his own rebound from the right circle after defenseman Braydon Coburn blocked his original shot. That gave the Canadiens a 3-1 lead with 15 minutes, 28 seconds left in the game.

Rene Bourque later added an empty-net goal.

The Flyers (6-9-1) seemingly got a break when Carey Price, who has been one of the NHL's best goalies in the first month of the season, was scratched because of the flu.

Then again, the Rocky statue probably could have been in goal in the first period and blanked the Flyers, who fired just two shots and rarely had the puck down the other end as they fell into a 1-0 hole. (Even Rocky can't help this team right now)

The Canadiens, one of the NHL's surprise teams, made it 2-0 as David Desharnais scored 1:15 into the second period, beating Boucher from out front as Max Pacioretty collected his second assist of the night.

The Flyers got to within 2-1 as Briere's shot, a knuckleball, appeared to deflect off defenseman Andrei Markov and trickled past Budaj with 6:04 left in the second period. It was just the Flyers' seventh shot of the game.

The Flyers, coming off a 5-3 loss in New Jersey on Friday, squandered four power-play chances in the second period, collecting a total of five shots during that eight-minute span. Whether on the power play or at even strength, they failed to mount any sustained pressure against a goalie who took a 4.33 goals-against average and .866 save percentage into the game.

"The third period we're down 2-1 and have to find a way to get it done," Giroux said. "In New Jersey, we're tied at 3-3 [going into the third], and we didn't get it done."

In their eight road losses, the Flyers have been outscored by 12-3 in the third period.

The Flyers reached the one-third mark of the 48-game season Saturday on pace to miss the playoffs for just the second time in the last 18 seasons. ( SETH JONES..SETH JONES)

Edited February 17, 2013 by pilldoc

[murraycraven]

Claude and Kimmo said the same thing and the are right... everyone in that locker room including the coaching staff should be embarrassed.

I hate to say it but this team is soft. Maybe we will catch a break and find ourselves in position to get seth jones in the draft. This team is going nowhere... ugly.

[BearOnIce]

http://www.philly.co.../191561511.html

Sam Carchidi, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Posted: Saturday, February 16, 2013, 9:56 PM

MONTREAL - For the offensively challenged Flyers, Operation Roadkill continued Saturday night.

They managed just 19 shots and dropped a 4-1 decision to the Montreal Canadiens at the Bell Centre, falling to 2-8 on the road this season.

Afterward, captain Claude Giroux called out the team.

"It's not acceptable the way we played tonight," he said. "It's not just two or three guys. It's the whole team. . . . We didn't show up."

Giroux said the Flyers aren't winning enough battles, aren't competing hard enough.

"We're just going through the motions." (That pretty much sums up the state of the team.)

Coach Peter Laviolette refused to comment on Giroux's remark. (Because he knows its true)

"We have to show a little bit more emotion," said center Danny Briere, who scored the Flyers' lone goal. Briere added he has been on teams that have gone through similar struggles. "And there's only one way out, and it's to keep sticking together, to keep working hard. Maybe we have to want it a little more and things will turn around at some point."

In a battle of backup goalies, Montreal's Peter Budaj outdueled Brian Boucher. Not that the Flyers gave Budaj much work. Their attack was out of sync all night, and their power play was ineffective. (They have been out of sync the entire year. Can we just decline PP's from now on?)

Montreal (9-4-1) took control as Thomas Plekanec scored on his own rebound from the right circle after defenseman Braydon Coburn blocked his original shot. That gave the Canadiens a 3-1 lead with 15 minutes, 28 seconds left in the game.

Rene Bourque later added an empty-net goal.

The Flyers (6-9-1) seemingly got a break when Carey Price, who has been one of the NHL's best goalies in the first month of the season, was scratched because of the flu.

Then again, the Rocky statue probably could have been in goal in the first period and blanked the Flyers, who fired just two shots and rarely had the puck down the other end as they fell into a 1-0 hole. (Even Rocky can't help this team right now)

The Canadiens, one of the NHL's surprise teams, made it 2-0 as David Desharnais scored 1:15 into the second period, beating Boucher from out front as Max Pacioretty collected his second assist of the night.

The Flyers got to within 2-1 as Briere's shot, a knuckleball, appeared to deflect off defenseman Andrei Markov and trickled past Budaj with 6:04 left in the second period. It was just the Flyers' seventh shot of the game.

The Flyers, coming off a 5-3 loss in New Jersey on Friday, squandered four power-play chances in the second period, collecting a total of five shots during that eight-minute span. Whether on the power play or at even strength, they failed to mount any sustained pressure against a goalie who took a 4.33 goals-against average and .866 save percentage into the game.

"The third period we're down 2-1 and have to find a way to get it done," Giroux said. "In New Jersey, we're tied at 3-3 [going into the third], and we didn't get it done."

In their eight road losses, the Flyers have been outscored by 12-3 in the third period.

The Flyers reached the one-third mark of the 48-game season Saturday on pace to miss the playoffs for just the second time in the last 18 seasons. ( SETH JONES..SETH JONES)

Staus Quo:

The Flyers fans are the most faithful in the league. Flyers Comcast plays on this. It is about $$$$ with them as Robber Barons.

Go look at what other organizations do. It is painfully obvious we are being played.

Flyers will never win anything as long as Snider, Clarke, and Holmgren are there. Never. The complete organization is knee-jerk.

Holmgren always tries to look like he is trying to make the team better but his history of the worst farm team in the league says otherwise. he has no clue to build and he has Snider always wanting to win = No patience. Instant Gratification Ed.

This team has not developed more than a handful of defensemen in 35+ years. Don't even go there with goalies.

Why you let Jagr and Carle go is beyond me.

Giroux is proving quickly to be a young, struggling captain.

You have to trade forwards now, not later, to stop the defensive melt-down.

You telling me that injuries to Harts, Mez are the primary reason this teams sits #12 in the East this morning.

I am a Peter Laviolette supporter, but I am questioning if he is right for this team. If Lavy goes, so needs to Holmgren, and all the coaches.. Enough of the inbreeding and croynism.

I will make no critique of individual players except to say outside of Giroux, I would consider all offers.

Who would of guessed that on 2.17.13 this Fkyers team would be in this shape but Bryz, "The Man Of A Thousand White Tigers", would be playing well.

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

As much as I'd like to see Seth Jones wearing Orange & Black, I think this may be an unrealistic expectation and a little premature. The Flyers are only 3 pts out of the playoffs right now and there is almost 3/4 of the season remaining. Plus, Hartnell & Mezaros will be returning from injury. That will surely give the team a boost.

3 pts, and we all saw last year (and 2010) you just have to get in. Back away from the ledge, at least for a little while.

[pensuck]

You keep harping on the bad defense. We're 24 th in the league in scoring per game. 27th without that blowout against the panthers. We're 21st in the league in goals against. While not much better Lavys system is to outscore the other team. The d and the goalie have looked pretty good.

The problem is that our forwards are not hustling back to play d and the forwards not scoring.

Thats how it looks to me anyways.

[Jmdodgesrt4]

Did I hear Seth jones?

[radoran]

They'll draft Seth Jones and then trade him to Washington for Ovechkin because 8 "just needs a change of scenery."

[pilldoc]

As much as I'd like to see Seth Jones wearing Orange & Black, I think this may be an unrealistic expectation and a little premature. The Flyers are only 3 pts out of the playoffs right now and there is almost 3/4 of the season remaining. Plus, Hartnell & Mezaros will be returning from injury. That will surely give the team a boost.

3 pts, and we all saw last year (and 2010) you just have to get in. Back away from the ledge, at least for a little while.

AFF..I respect you totally as a poster and in-game chat companion, However...I respectfully disagree. This team has shown me nothing over the past few games to indicate to me that this will turn around. Even if this team should miraculously limp its way into the playoffs, I think they are gonna get smoked by the likes of the Pens / Devils/ or Bruins. Yes, I know once a team gets into the playoffs anything can happen. However, this team is just too inconsistent to prove me otherwise. Getting Harts & Mez back will help some, but having them out of the line-up is not the sole reason why this team is struggling and sitting at #12 in the Conference.

The defense is horribly brutal and the offense has been MIA for the majority of the season. It is apparent as many of posters have stated, the problems of this team can be traced back to Snider & Homer. The quick fix mentality has hampered this team. IMHO, (and it pains me to say this), I would rather have this team struggle, miss the playoffs and have the chance to draft a highly touted D-man prospect. Seth Jones is the obvious choice, but there are others who could help this team. Then this franchise needs to develop him. In order to to this, THERE NEEDS TO BE FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE in this teams philosophy by management with or without Homer as GM.

Edited February 17, 2013 by pilldoc

[Mad Dog]

AFF..I respect you totally as a poster and in-game chat companion, However...I respectfully disagree. This team has shown me nothing over the past few games to indicate to me that this will turn around. Even if this team should miraculously limp its way into the playoffs, I think they are gonna get smoked by the likes of the Pens / Devils/ or Bruins. Yes, I know once a team gets into the playoffs anything can happen. However, this team is just too inconsistent to prove me otherwise. Getting Harts & Mez back will help some, but having them out of the line-up is not the sole reason why this team is struggling and sitting at #12 in the Conference.

The defense is horribly brutal and the offense has been MIA for the majority of the season. It is apparent as many of posters have stated, the problems of this team can be traced back to Snider & Homer. The quick fix mentality has hampered this team. IMHO, (and it pains me to say this), I would rather have this team struggle, miss the playoffs and have the chance to draft a highly touted D-man prospect. Seth Jones is the obvious choice, but there are others who could help this team. Then this franchise needs to develop him. In order to to this, THERE NEEDS TO BE FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE in this teams philosophy by management with or without Homer as GM.

I agree on all acounts, Doc.

Can this team turn this around? Everything is possible, but in an abridged season, they need to start moving lightning fast for that to happen. But more importantly, this team is too disorganized, too injured, too leadership-deprived, too confused, too disorderly, and above all, they are frankly not good enough. So I think the problems are too encrusted to have them fixed this season.

But this is just one issue that is masked by a deeper problem – the Flyers management is incompetent. I know I am beating up the dead horse, but Holmgren totally screwed this up this summer. Looking through his entire tenure here, I am of an opinion that he lacks rudimentary understanding of what it takes to build a successful franchise. Putting this in the context of him working under Clarke’s mentorship for all these years, this hardly comes as surprising. The acquisitions of Fedotenko, Gervais and Foster were simply insulting to this fan base. Flyers fans are way too knowledgeable to believe these were the trades designed to solidify the roster. These were moves made in panic, out of desperation, and simply to check the box.

I applaud Snider for his passion and love for the game, and his genuine desire to win, but I agree that as long as he is at a helm, he will continue this promote-from-within mentality and will continuously miss on better candidates for the GM position. This borderline criminal devotion will always stand on the way of this team reaching the higher levels. This is really sad, but putting things in proper persepctive, one should no longer wonder why this team has not won since the mid-70's.

[pilldoc]

The acquisitions of Fedotenko, Gervais and Foster were simply insulting to this fan base. Flyers fans are way too knowledgeable to believe these were the trades designed to solidify the roster. These were moves made in panic, out of desperation, and simply to check the box.

Exactly MD! The jig was up as soon as Suter and Parise choose Minny. As many of posters have stated, those 2 players had NO intention of signing here for whatever personal reason. The FA offer to Weber was a calculate risk, BUT a strategic failure. The offer to Weber should have been made to to Nashville BEFORE Suter and Parise signed. That way you would have forced more pressure on the Preds. Once Suter signed with Minny, Nashville had no choice but to match the offer that Ed and Homer had thrown on the table. Now to Homer's credit, he might have hand tied Nashville for years to come in trying to pay for that albatross of a contract.

Essentially Flyers management put as the saying goes "all their eggs into one basket" with no viable back-up plan. Once Carle walked to TB, there were no other solutions but to fill the roster with less than AHL talent in the likes of Foster / Gervais and Lilja. You simply cannot replace Jagr with the Russian Blushin and hope all pans out well. So yes..I totally agree...these moves were done completely in panic mode.

Grossman was steal from the Stars, however, one success does not negate all the failures this present management team as made us endure.

Edited February 17, 2013 by pilldoc

[pilldoc]

I applaud Snider for his passion and love for the game, and his genuine desire to win, but I agree that as long as he is at a helm, he will continue this promote-from-within mentality and will continuously miss on better candidates for the GM position. This borderline criminal devotion will always stand on the way of this team reaching the higher levels. This is really sad, but putting things in proper persepctive, one should no longer wonder why this team has not won since the mid-70's.

Is Snider personal friends with Jerry Jones of the Cowboys? JJ is the sole reason why the Cowboys constantly are a mediocre team for the past 15 years. His stubburness as GM has pissed off a many of Cowboy fans. Jerry is a great businessman who has no reason to whatsoever to be a GM of an NFL football team. He trades for the wrong players, signs players to ridiculous contracts, and hangs onto players well past their prime and trades away draft picks like trading cards. Sound familiar???

Look..I agree ..I love Ed for his passion of the game and his desire to win before he kicks the bucket. However, he CANNOT live on past glory's and hire former players to run this team. This team needs a fresh new approach in the GM department. I'm still on the fence with Lavi.

[ruxpin]

You keep harping on the bad defense. We're 24 th in the league in scoring per game. 27th without that blowout against the panthers. We're 21st in the league in goals against. While not much better Lavys system is to outscore the other team. The d and the goalie have looked pretty good.

The problem is that our forwards are not hustling back to play d and the forwards not scoring.

Thats how it looks to me anyways.

It's actually the blueliners that are hampering some of the scoring. They can't control things in their own end, can't make the clean clearing pass, have difficulty carrying it up out of their end, struggle to keep the puck in at the opponents' blue line, don't shoot well, don't make good decisions from the point, etc.

Absolutely, forwards deserve quite a lot of blame. But the glaring crux of the weakness stems from the back end. The forwards are late getting on the attack because they're back playing defense just a little too long, going deeper than they should to back check; leaving their forecheck too early to help cover on defense; and with all this LAVI IS NOT ROTATING THE 4 LINES AS HE SHOULD TO COMPENSATE.

The whole thing is a cluster, but the cancer starts on the blueline and works forward, not the other way around.

[pensuck]

I see your point but getting 3 shots in the first 32 minutes of a game doesn't start with the d. I agree its a combined effort but our o cannot generate any sustained offensive zone pressure. You could have larry robinson and pronger back there. If there's no pressure from the forwards no d can keep the puck in the offensive zone.

t is a combined cluster f right now. It takes a team effort to win.

[pilldoc]

I see your point but getting 3 shots in the first 32 minutes of a game doesn't start with the d. I agree its a combined effort but our o cannot generate any sustained offensive zone pressure. You could have larry robinson and pronger back there. If there's no pressure from the forwards no d can keep the puck in the offensive zone.

t is a combined cluster f right now. It takes a team effort to win.

Lack of offensive pressure thus generating only 3 shots on goal.....now is that from:

1. Bad passing. can't go from tape to tape and therefore too many turnovers

2. Too much passing...trying to get the perfect shot instead of just putting the puck on net

3. Lavi's system? or lack of ??

4. No chemistry because Lavi changes up the lines way too much

5. All of the above

Agree this is a cluster....k right now with no forseeable end in sight. I have seen Chinese fire drills with more/better synchronization than what this team is bringing to the table on a nightly basis.

Edited February 17, 2013 by pilldoc

[canoli]

I think all you guys made some great points in this thread - from Ed and Homer, questioning their ability... to the forwards who can't or won't put pucks on net... the AHL/NHL backend we're putting on the ice. But I wonder how much any of that matters compared to the general lack of effort I see on the team this year. It's like Giroux says, they're "going through the motions."

Bryzgalov - of all people - seems to be one of the few who is giving the effort required; he battles hard for loose pucks and seems to really want to play well. Simmonds, Matt Read and B. Schenn, Rinaldo...sometimes Jake...but then it drops off. Last night's effort was pathetic. I know they were tired, playing the night before (while Montreal rested) but that doesn't explain what I saw. TWO fkng SOG in the 1st? On a backup goalie primed for pickin? That's inexcusable.

But I don't believe we're "just not good enough," whatever that means. The Habs, the Devils (besides Kovy) - who do they have? We're just as stocked with talent as they are. True we have Foster and a couple guys who probably shouldn't be playing anymore (Knuble, Rusty)... but even taking those guys into account I can't say Montreal or Jersey is loaded with talent compared to the Flyers.

I don't know - I hate using "lack of effort" as a reason because it's impossible to know how much anyone's giving. But it sure looks like they're not giving enough, plain and simple.

[Samifan]

Our Captain needs to start by looking in the mirror! Stop trying the highlight reel stuff and get back to basics one shift at a time. I am sick of seeing Giroux windmill from the top of the circle on the power play. The guy is going to blow out both rotator cuffs shooting 5 feet high and wide.

I realize he misses Hartnell and Jagr but I cannot help wonder if that injury he suffered in Germany during the lockout is bothering him?

[pilldoc]

@canoli

Then how do your break this season after season after effin season mentality of "Going through the motions"?

We have seen this play year after year and yet there does not seem to be a vialbe solution.

Inquiring minds want to know.........

[doom88]

Getting Hartnell back is significant. As much as people mock it, the "room" matters. He's a guy who can get guys back to having fun and relaxing. The skaters have talent, but something is screwing with their heads. Back to basics, fun, and execution.

[canoli]

@pilldoc

I think you're using selective memory right now - which is understandable after a pathetic effort like last night, but try to remember the good as well as the bad. It's not "season after effin season mentality of "Going through the motions" - it is segments of every season, no question about that.

Unfortunately we're a 1/3 of the way through this season already and early points are way more important than usual. We're only a few pts. out of the #8 spot so it's not like "all is lost" yet. And like Doom says getting Hartnell back will be huge. He is so under-valued it's not even funny - even after his all-star year last season, people still refuse to credit him for so much of the Flyers' success the past couple seasons.

I'm not saying " All is well, just give it time" - not at all. But I'm also not saying "Fire the coach, Fire Homer - Fire All The Things (!)" Yes Homer and Lavy both have some major blind spots in their approach. OTOH their approach got us to Game 6 and only a ridiculously-bad goal kept us from Game 7, maybe even winning the Stanley Cup. A lot has changed since then obviously, and I don't think we're going on any kind of run like that this April. But once Harts is back, Mez is back...we *may* see the TEAM come together and start giving the effort required to win hockey games.

[ruxpin]

If there's no pressure from the forwards no d can keep the puck in the offensive zone.

t is a combined cluster f right now. It takes a team effort to win.

I would have a very difficult time disagreeing with anything in your post but highlighted just this part because I think it's particularly dead on.

While I still think the above has quite a bit to do with the blueliners (no speed or coordinated attack through the neutral zone because typically the pass to there was bad or they only have 2 or 3 coming because the D is still waiting for their Buicks to warm up), there is quite a bit of cluster f right now among the forwards as well.

PillDoc mentioned the incessant changing of line combos. I'm not sure how much of that is out of necessity because nothing seems to be working or how much it's nothing seems to be working because the lines keep changing. (Did you follow any of that???)

I think with 4 games a week and constant back-to-backs, Lavi does his team a tremendous disservice by playing the 4th liners only 7 minutes a game. I realize this would be typical in a "normal" year, but he has to understand that 4 games a week of 18-19 minutes a game where his philosophy is supposed to be constant pressure and go-go-go is not-so-slowly killing his team. Plus, he has guys with actual wheels that could give the Flyers some speed to at least provide a change-up sitting in the press box. You would think he would at least rotate these players in on a regular basis in an effort to keep legs somewhat fresh.

I know Hartnell is out, but is there anyone that truly believes he is a difference maker? He sucked last year until they gave him a gift and threw him on a line with Giroux and Jagr. Then he took off. I'd be willing to bet even you or I (I don't you, but I would be a stretch) could net a few given those linemates--especially given the way Giroux and Jagr played last year. Maybe Hartnell helps to get Giroux going. Call me doubtful. If sustained pressure and offensive zone time is what is lacking, I'm not sure a guy who trips over every line marking on the ice is the guy to accomplish that.

I'm not sure how we stack up in terms of size among the forwards. I know the league in general has become somewhat smaller, but it seems to me we lack size to keep the offensive zone forecheck and cycling attack going like we're used to seeing. As for the rush, in the past I've complained that the forwards get too far in front of the defense and it makes the passes too long and kills the possibility of a 5-man attack. I think some of this remains true, but now I get the feeling that forwards are staying back for our paraplegic defensemen and it's just giving the opponent time to re-position and counter while our fast break breaks fast and then leaves our epically slow and talent-less defensemen out of position with no hope of recovery.

The defense is what it is at this point and may be helped some with the return of Mez. I'm not a huge fan, but he will drop some defensemen to positions their more suited to.

So for the forward lines

1) Set the lines in a way that makes some sense and leave them that way. This would include NOT playing Briere on the line with Giroux.

2) Roll all four lines and rotate, between games, who plays on that fourth line. I want to see Harry Z and Wellwood more. At least bring some damn energy up front.

3) Make sure the gap between forward and defense is appropriate and don't over-cheat either way. This is easier to say from the couch than to practice but it is important. They seem to be over-cheating one way or the other and rarely are the happy medium.

4) As soon as Hartnell comes back and proves he is healthy, send Knuble on a cruise and hope it's Carnival so he's not back for awhile.

5) If Briere continues to prove that he cannot play wing, either bench him or move him to center and let one of the other centers play wing. They cannot be worse.

That's all for now. Feel free to add.

[brelic]

Not for nothing, but Giroux was and probably always will be the wrong choice for captain. It seems many teams give the captain to their 'best' player, and by 'best' player, I mean their 'best offensively-gifted forward'. I don't get it.

Best forward != leader. Sometimes, yes. Yzerman was a leader. Messier was a leader. Pronger was a leader.

Giroux? I don't know, but if his interviews are anything to go by, I would say no. He's about as interesting to watch as paint drying. He speaks in cliches, like most players do, and he doesn't have any conviction behind what he's saying. So how is a teammate supposed to take that seriously? Pronger, he had a commanding voice. He wasn't afraid to get into someone's business even when that someone is a teammate. Giroux does not strike me as that kind of guy.

But, whatever. That choice has been made. He'll never be stripped of it.

In any case, that's not really the source of their problems, but it doesn't help if players are looking to G for leadership. It just doesn't look like he has any... at least not yet.

So those quotes from Giroux sound forced. They're true, but they sound forced.

[pilldoc]

@canoli

selective memory yup--> I'm guilty

overreacting a bit yup --> I'm guilty

exaggerating a bit yup--> I'm guilty

In years past we have seen this team go through some of those stretches and at least better in the next period and/or next game, however, this year just feels differently. I'm not sure if it was because of the lock out or not. To me, because of the shorten season there is no wriggle room to have streches of mediocre play. Yes you are the voice of calm reason and yes you are right Hartnell will bring something back to this team.........

Like the great Yoda use to say... "Patience....we must learn patience"

[ruxpin]

We're only a few pts. out of the #8 spot so it's not like "all is lost" yet

I want to agree with this--because in theory it's quite true. On the other hand, not only are we a few points back, we've also played more games than anyone. I realize that in some cases (Buffalo, Ottawa, and Toronto) it's only one game. But in others, it's two or three. That doesn't make it impossible, either, but just saying it makes it all that more difficult. In an 80 game season it's not as big a deal, but when you figure we've already played 8% more of the season (rounding) than the Rangers--sitting in 8th--it's something.

I guess all this to say that while it's not impossible, they might want to get on it sooner than later.

[ruxpin]

So those quotes from Giroux sound forced. They're true, but they sound forced.

Did you actually hear his post-game? I agree with much of what you said, but the reason I ask is this: Did his post-game sound almost Richards-esque to you? I mean, I don't know what he's supposed to say or how he's supposed to say it, but it just seemed to lack conviction to me. Maybe it was the cliches you're talking about that made me grimace, but the post-game annoyed me.

[murraycraven]

We dont have to "trade now" for christ sake... that is the issue... the young kids are strong. Let them develop together! This season is all but toast anyway. Making a desperation move means nothing and will do nothing... they are simply an a average team at best.