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The Trades


brelic
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Looking at the Kings roster this morning, it's like a who's who of exiled Flyers. Gagne. Richards. Carter. Williams.

So, I figured I'd look at how Richards and Carter are doing compared to the 4 guys we got in return.

Voracek, 6g, 12a, 18pts

Schenn, 4g, 10a, 14pts

Simmonds, 6g, 6a, 12pts

Couturier, 2g, 5a, 7pts

Total, 18g, 33a, 51pts

Richards, 4g, 6a, 10pts

Carter, 8g, 2a, 10pts

Total, 12g, 8a, 20pts

Incidentally, Carter and Richards are #1 and 2 in points for LA, which kinda tells you that if you thought our offense was anemic (51 GF), LA's is even worse (36 GF).

Anyway, on paper, we won that trade last year, and are winning it again this year. It's not even close.

But on the ice, they won a Stanley Cup. And unless we do the same, something tells me I'll never be able to see those two trades as us 'winning'. Am I the only one??

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Well, we didn't get Dustin Brown and Jonathan Quick in those trades and those were the main reasons LA won that cup.

That's true. They had a very solid team before those trades, and who's to say they wouldn't have won anyway?

I know it is what it is. I don't in any way want to reverse the trades, or wish we hadn't made them. It just got me thinking this morning when I glanced at the LA roster.

I'd love for Homer to write a tell-all book someday about these trades and all the others, and what kinds of things go on behind the scenes.

There is a GM tell-all book out there now, but I can't remember the name of it, and you can only order it from their website. But apparently it's quite good.

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I fleshed it out a bit (to include the former Flyers):

Voracek, 6g, 12a, 18pts

Schenn, 4g, 10a, 14pts

Simmonds, 6g, 6a, 12pts

Couturier, 2g, 5a, 7pts

Matt Walker, 0g, 0a, 0pts

(Marcel Noebels, 10g, 24a, 34pts in WHL last year)

Danny Markov-> 2006 3rd (Bud Holloway)-> "futures", 0g, 0a, 0pts

Total, 18g, 33a, 51pts

Richards, 4g, 6a, 10pts

Carter, 8g, 2a, 10pts

Gagne, 0g, 5a, 5pts

Williams, 1g, 5a, 6pts

(Bud Holloway, 21g, 28a, 49pts in Sweden last year)

Total, 13g, 18a, 31pts

Edited by TedZep
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The fact of the matter is that, Richards & Carter are better suited to being role / support players in the NHL than #1/2 team leaders. You look at the production in paper (let alone the cap hits), its a total no brainer. Jake, Simmer, B Schenn, Coots, all under 23, too...

Not to mention you likely don't get the most out of Giroux last year and going forward if Richards and Carter are still here as both of them together would retain the role as franchise players. Especially after their no trade and enormous cap hit would have went into effect.

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The Flyers got better, younger and cheaper with those deals, but they also lost the experience which Crater and Richards had. I don't doubt for a moment that their playoff experience helped LA immensely last year.

The Moves were moves for the future that were sold as moves for the now. I don't want to see them give up the promising future in front of us for a quick fix to be "good enough to compete for the Stanley Cup" today.

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I fleshed it out a bit:

Voracek, 6g, 12a, 18pts

Schenn, 4g, 10a, 14pts

Simmonds, 6g, 6a, 12pts

Couturier, 2g, 5a, 7pts

Matt Walker, 0g, 0a, 0pts

Marcel Noebels, 0g, 0a, 0pts

Danny Markov-> 2006 3rd -> "futures", 0g, 0a, 0pts

Total, 18g, 33a, 51pts

Richards, 4g, 6a, 10pts

Carter, 8g, 2a, 10pts

Gagne, 0g, 5a, 5pts

Williams, 1g, 5a, 6pts

Total, 13g, 18a, 31pts

Now that's flushing it out. Danny Markov how I miss you.

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The Flyers got better, younger and cheaper with those deals, but they also lost the experience which Crater and Richards had. I don't doubt for a moment that their playoff experience helped LA immensely last year.

The Moves were moves for the future that were sold as moves for the now. I don't want to see them give up the promising future in front of us for a quick fix to be "good enough to compete for the Stanley Cup" today.

I don't know how their "playoff experience" helps a guy like Quick steal games. Sorry you can have their experience all you want but with anything less than Quick they don't win the cup period.

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I don't know how their "playoff experience" helps a guy like Quick steal games. Sorry you can have their experience all you want but with anything less than Quick they don't win the cup period.

It gives the rest of the team insight into the knowledge and experience of what it takes to get to the Finals.

Yes, Quick was the key to the victory - which is why he won the Conn Smythe. But the team still needed to score goals and win games.

Sorry, but sorry is just a bad way to start a sentence.

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I think it would be prudent to add Grossmann to thie list of current Flyers, and Powe on the former Flyers. Powe was sent for the 3rd rounder that was combined with the Kings 2nd rounder in order to acquire Grossmann.

So far it has been a win-win for both teams.

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It gives the rest of the team insight into the knowledge and experience of what it takes to get to the Finals.

Yes, Quick was the key to the victory - which is why he won the Conn Smythe. But the team still needed to score goals and win games.

Sorry, but sorry is just a bad way to start a sentence.

I personally don't buy into the whole experience factor with younger/inexperienced players praising the vets for their vast wisdom. I think its nothing more than complementary "player speak". Its just about giving media types a sound byte to run with and fans glom onto it as if its some meaningful revelation.

Edited by PhilsFanDrew
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Incidentally, Carter and Richards are #1 and 2 in points for LA, which kinda tells you that if you thought our offense was anemic (51 GF), LA's is even worse (36 GF).

13 goals in two games will help that stat and we were abysmal the first three weeks of the season. If you throw out the Fla blowout, and the last two high scoring games (a total of nearly 1/3 of our goals scored), we would be worse than LA. Have they blown anyone out??

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I personally don't buy into the whole experience factor with younger/inexperienced players praising the vets for their vast wisdom. I think its nothing more than complementary "player speak". Its just about giving media types a sound byte to run with and fans glom onto it as if its some meaningful revelation.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

Given that, for just two examples, the Flyers chose to go with Pronger over Richards/Crater and that the Pens were desperate to bring a "veteran presence" onto Crosby's line early in his career, I'm not so sure very many "hockey people" would agree.

Experience gives one the comfort of having been there before.

Also, too, I didn't say it was the deciding factor, only that it "helped immensely."

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13 goals in two games will help that stat and we were abysmal the first three weeks of the season. If you throw out the Fla blowout, and the last two high scoring games (a total of nearly 1/3 of our goals scored), we would be worse than LA. Have they blown anyone out??

I understand the notion of outliers, but now we're just gonna throw out 3 games from our total? Blowouts are no less valid.

Goals scored in our last 7 games: 6, 7, 1, 3, 3, 2, 4.

Goals scored in our first 7 games: 1, 2, 0, 2, 7, 1, 1.

There's definitely an increase in offensive production lately... not just in isolated 'blowouts'.

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@Vanflyer

i remember seeing richards on the ice for every key situation in every kings game i watched last year....every big d-zone face off, the last 1:30 of every game for the close out, throwing down in st louis to provide a spark.

his "role" was important.

i'm not going to say anything good about carter, he was a bonus, and his contribution was minimal.

richards was important to that team and it is intellectually dishonest to talk yourself into thinking he wasn't.

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The Carter trade was great though. I do not miss Jeff Carter on this team. Also, moving Richards kind of made way for the emergence of Giroux.

This is the team we have now. It is what it is.

I'm still not a big fan of trading away Richards, but I'm happy for him that he won a Cup.

And I have high hopes for Brayden Schenn.

And I think that Wayne Simmonds was the real steal of that trade. He is solid & looks like he was born to be a Flyer.

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richards was important to that team and it is intellectually dishonest to talk yourself into thinking he wasn't.

Just like I said, a role player. I like the guy allot. But I like Schenn / Simmonds and Cousins for him allot more.

Every Stanley cup team needs a role players. Richards was nowhere near the leader of the pack on that team. Did he show up, sure. You take the other big four out and Richards wilts.

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@Vanflyer

i remember seeing richards on the ice for every key situation in every kings game i watched last year....every big d-zone face off, the last 1:30 of every game for the close out, throwing down in st louis to provide a spark.

his "role" was important.

i'm not going to say anything good about carter, he was a bonus, and his contribution was minimal.

richards was important to that team and it is intellectually dishonest to talk yourself into thinking he wasn't.

I live in SoCal, so I get to watch a lot of Ducks and Kings games.

Richards is a big part of that Kings team. He is always on the ice in crunch time.

And let's try to remember that if not for one of the worst goaltending performances in Stanley Cup Finals history, he wins a Cup in Philly in 2010. With even decent goaltending, we beat the Blackhawks.

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I think Richards clearly benefitted from losing the C and replacing it with an A.

Flogging a dead horse, the C was an anchor for him in Philly.

Agreed completely on Schenn/Simmonds making up for the loss (Couturier was the 1st rounder Columbus would have used to pick another Russian "sniper").

I think the trades were beneficial to both teams (nothing could help Columbus more than firing their idiot GM (see also, too, Buffalo)). And clearly LA won big with their Cup run.

But if they handle it right, this should be the beginning of an exciting period in Flyer Hockey Lore.

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I'm still not a big fan of trading away Richards, but I'm happy for him that he won a Cup.

And I have high hopes for Brayden Schenn.

And I think that Wayne Simmonds was the real steal of that trade. He is solid & looks like he was born to be a Flyer.

Simmonds was the steal of the trade. But don't look know, Schenn is doing everything that Richards does and better and CHEAPER. Don't forget about that sleeper 2nd rounder Cousins either (I could not resist putting those words together).

Seriously. Schenn is 21 years old. Richards is now 28 years old. You add in Simmonds (who I agree was the sleeper in that trade) and Cousins and this was highway robbery.

If we are going to go down this road: Voracek + Couturier for Carter was the entire gold train robbery. I laugh at those that think that the Flyers should be "proactive" and do what Buffalo did and clean the upper management. Homer has his flaws, but he has pulled off some stellar deals:

Timmo

Hartnell

Mez

Coots

Schenn

Schenn2 (lets admit it, both needed a change)

Jake

Simmonds

Read

Grossman (mammoth steal)

The d is still suspect and he has shate the bed a few times. But ALL of those players on that list are playing today because of homer.

You show me another GM (albeit forced by his owners hand) that would trade their #1 and #2 center within ours and have gotten a better return?

Rick Nash says hello.

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