Nobody Wants To Trade With Holmgren

[BearOnIce]

After last summer with the way this stone cold piranah went after players slashing and burning teams like Nashville his goose is cooked. Would you want to trade with or trust this Attilla The Hun kind of guy if you were another GM? This is going to work against the Flyers. Mark my words. There is still a genteman's code and Holmgren went over the line, written rules or no written rules. Let's see what this week then what the summer brings.

[CoachX]

curious, but what has happened to verify your point? most of us are afraid homer will trade the core of this team and any valuable draft picks for a bunch of semi-retired goons with beer guts, but you think Homer will get snubbed?

I don't see that at all. Homer will get his chances, its all a question of whether or not he is conscious when he pulls the trigger

[aziz]

exactly. assets are assets, and if a GM sees something he wants...or if he wants to move something and finds the offered price acceptable, he'll make a trade. these aren't 6 yearolds pouting in the playground, these are businessmen who want to improve their teams, and they'll do what they need to to make that happen.

I mean, Holmgren probably isn't going to get a whole lot of future considerations deals, but, well, actually, he just did. so.

[BearOnIce]

curious, but what has happened to verify your point? most of us are afraid homer will trade the core of this team and any valuable draft picks for a bunch of semi-retired goons with beer guts, but you think Homer will get snubbed?

I don't see that at all. Homer will get his chances, its all a question of whether or not he is conscious when he pulls the trigger

I don't have anything to substantiate that right now, in all honesty, but I just sense that he may have a problem getting the conversation going in any earnst degree when he really needs to because he stepped over the line last summer. I appreciate the aggressiveness that Holmgren and Snider exhibit, but this is a boys club with the GM's. I suggest we wait until this summer in July to see what Holmgren comes up with. I suggest Holmgren is going to come up short and we are going to go into next year screwed. Again, nothing to prove my point except a hunch. This Harry Z trade today is just nonsense but could be an indication of the kind of fallout we may see in July.

[BearOnIce]

exactly. assets are assets, and if a GM sees something he wants...or if he wants to move something and finds the offered price acceptable, he'll make a trade. these aren't 6 yearolds pouting in the playground, these are businessmen who want to improve their teams, and they'll do what they need to to make that happen.

I mean, Holmgren probably isn't going to get a whole lot of future considerations deals, but, well, actually, he just did. so.

I thing there is some trust involved with these deals between GM's especially blockbuster ones. Harry Z today? This is a telltale sign. i sense we may have a dissappointing July. Let's see what happens then.

[CoachX]

fair enough

like Aziz said, if a GM wants what Homer has, he will come to the table. But, to your point, he might be sitting alone for quite some time, especially with what he has to offer

[doom88]

fair enough

like Aziz said, if a GM wants what Homer has, he will come to the table. But, to your point, he might be sitting alone for quite some time, especially with what he has to offer

What he has to offer is the bigger factor by far. Nothing healthy.

[Polaris922]

I'm sure GM's are wary because of his offer sheets in the past. However... Business is business. These are million dollar tools they invest in. If the price is right, the price is right.

As said the cupboard is fairly empty right now.

[toughfighter83]

you dont think this is a sign that maybe it could be the end of the homer era? yes snider said his job is safe but why would he say he's fired if he has no one to replace yet? he would never say anything about what's going to happen.

[Polaris922]

He should be fired. I think you could do much better.

[ruxpin]

most of us are afraid homer will trade the core of this team and any valuable draft picks for a bunch of semi-retired goons with beer guts, but you think Homer will get snubbed?

Well, if Homer wants to do something idiotic, I'm sure the other GMs will help him accomplish it. But @bearonice might be right that it might make it difficult for Homer to deal on even footing...meaning that he may struggle to get as good return value as he might have had he not played armed villain this past summer.

[BearOnIce]

you dont think this is a sign that maybe it could be the end of the homer era? yes snider said his job is safe but why would he say he's fired if he has no one to replace yet? he would never say anything about what's going to happen.

That is probably the point that I am ultimately leading to and making. Holmgren has alienated the rest of the GM's with his antics of using offer sheets instead of diplomacy, tact, and guile in this "boys club" of a NHL GM club. He is a rogue and just like in business it may make a splash but that's it. You become the ebola. And Holmgren has done this because while he was a good player, he is a lousy GM in my opinion, just like Clarke. And that is the mold and rep of Flyer GM's for the last 10+ years. Snider has authenticated it because Snider offers blind homerism. Until the Flyers ownership goes outside, it is what it is. I would not be surprised if there was both a new GM and the coach becomes a casualty before next October. Holmgren has the deck definately stacked against him trying to turn this team around as the result of what he has done. But, in a snap of a finger it all changes if Ed is not there.

[toughfighter83]

That is probably the point that I am ultimately leading to and making. Holmgren has alienated the rest of the GM's with his antics of using offer sheets instead of diplomacy, tact, and guile in this "boys club" of a NHL GM club. He is a rogue and just like in business it may make a splash but that's it. You become the ebola. And Holmgren has done this because while he was a good player, he is a lousy GM in my opinion, just like Clarke. And that is the mold and rep of Flyer GM's for the last 10+ years. Snider has authenticated it because Snider offers blind homerism. Until the Flyers ownership goes outside, it is what it is. I would not be surprised if there was both a new GM and the coach becomes a casualty before next October. Holmgren has the deck definately stacked against him trying to turn this team around as the result of what he has done. But, in a snap of a finger it all changes if Ed is not there.

he is a lously gm, he got rid of the players from the 2010 roster to a lousy team, he should have been smart instead of trading for an overpriced injuried defensemen in mez, he should have just signed a cheap good defensemen, instead he screwed the whole core up, plus it's on the coach, he should have played both goalies in bob and boucher. lav burned bob out and he struggled

[ruxpin]

The Flyers Cups were Keith Allen and Fred Shero. NOT Ed Snider.

[AndyS]

I don't have anything to substantiate that right now, in all honesty, but I just sense that he may have a problem getting the conversation going in any earnst degree when he really needs to because he stepped over the line last summer. I appreciate the aggressiveness that Holmgren and Snider exhibit, but this is a boys club with the GM's. I suggest we wait until this summer in July to see what Holmgren comes up with. I suggest Holmgren is going to come up short and we are going to go into next year screwed. Again, nothing to prove my point except a hunch. This Harry Z trade today is just nonsense but could be an indication of the kind of fallout we may see in July.

Most of our trade chips are injured right now.

[ruxpin]

Most of our trade chips are injured right now.

And had significant downside even before that. We saw what a NMC did with a much better player (Iginla) than what we have to bargain with. I mean, if a hall of fame player gets you 2 kids yanked out of world history 101 and a 29th/30th overall draft pick, what does Mez or Briere get you?

[albertaflyer]

After last summer with the way this stone cold piranah went after players slashing and burning teams like Nashville his goose is cooked. Would you want to trade with or trust this Attilla The Hun kind of guy if you were another GM? This is going to work against the Flyers. Mark my words. There is still a genteman's code and Holmgren went over the line, written rules or no written rules. Let's see what this week then what the summer brings.

I do agree with you on a code GM's have. I was fortunate enough to golf with a former Flyers coach not long ago. He was telling me that when Carolina offered Federov that huge contract way back when it angered a lot of GM's at the time. They pretty much black listed Carolina for a full year. He said at the draft following the offer no would even talk to Rutherford. That was way back in the 97-98 season but I think some GM's still think the same. Although I don't think it's as bad to send an offer sheet now. I think everyone understands the money involved and the pressure to win.

[flyercanuck]

Since the offersheet Holmgren has made 5 trades with 5 different teams. There have been 35 offersheets signed since 86 by 16 different NHL teams. Holmgren hardly started it.

[BearOnIce]

I do agree with you on a code GM's have. I was fortunate enough to golf with a former Flyers coach not long ago. He was telling me that when Carolina offered Federov that huge contract way back when it angered a lot of GM's at the time. They pretty much black listed Carolina for a full year. He said at the draft following the offer no would even talk to Rutherford. That was way back in the 97-98 season but I think some GM's still think the same. Although I don't think it's as bad to send an offer sheet now. I think everyone understands the money involved and the pressure to win.

Thanks for the info. Interesting on Rutherford. I do not feel good at all going into this off season because I feel that we have core issues with this GM's competence and that will set us back further. It is compounded by Snider's win at all costs every year mentality.

[AndyS]

And had significant downside even before that. We saw what a NMC did with a much better player (Iginla) than what we have to bargain with. I mean, if a hall of fame player gets you 2 kids yanked out of world history 101 and a 29th/30th overall draft pick, what does Mez or Briere get you?

Yeah, but look what the Flames just got for J-Bo! Seriously.

[ruxpin]

Yeah, but look what the Flames just got for J-Bo! Seriously.

That may be the difference between trading a forward and trading a defenseman in this market. [/ obvious]

[PhilsFanDrew]

he is a lously gm, he got rid of the players from the 2010 roster to a lousy team, he should have been smart instead of trading for an overpriced injuried defensemen in mez, he should have just signed a cheap good defensemen, instead he screwed the whole core up, plus it's on the coach, he should have played both goalies in bob and boucher. lav burned bob out and he struggled

The team in 2010 wasn't as good as some make it out to be. They made the playoffs on the last day in a shootout of all things. Yes they made the Finals but they had a favorable pathway to get there. Montreal did all the heavy lifting for us and they were burnt out by the time they got to us. You couple that and a journeyman goalie who all the sudden caught lightning in a bottle and the Flyers were more lucky than good in 2010. In my opinion the biggest mistake Homer made was signing Bryzgalov and letting go of Bob. I was on board with bringing in a stop gap like Vokoun for a year to split time with Bob as he developed. The Bryz debacle coupled with the Pronger injury have set this team back a few years.

[King Knut]

Don't be such a drama queen. This isn't Days of Our Lives. The fact is that teams want Schenn, Voracek, Couturier, Giroux, Simmonds and Read and Homer isn't willing to part with them yet... or at least teams DID want them before they ended up having such a mediocre year (except for Jake who's really come into his own this year).

Also, because of the shortened season no one is completely out of contention and thus they're not holding fire sales for stars (except Calgary apparently). Everyone is still a buyer. No one's a seller right now. There hasn't been a whole lot of movement league wide as a result. Think about it... the big deal Homer may or may not pull off is Ryan Clowe? Seriously?

Now add in to that equation the fact that Homer doesn't have much in the way of Salary Cap room because of various miscues over recent years -which while it's a GM mistake to be sure, not the sort of thing that other GMs will hold against you.

Also, what's wrong with this team has no quick fixes. We're not a puzzle piece away from a cup. Bringing in a Jagr or a Iginla might help a tad with the scoring, but ultimately, it's not going to make this team a playoff competitor because it's not addressing the serious core issues on defense and I think Homer is smart enough to know that. What he's going to do about it remains to be seen, but at this point, it's certainly keeping him from making a desperate trade for yet another D-Man at the end of his career.

GMs don't not deal with other GMs because of crap like Weber. GM's do what they need to to make their teams better. If Homer went to someone and said, "Hey, I'll give you Giroux for your best defenseman." They wouldn't poo poo the deal out of spite because of something Homer did last summer.

It's a business. What other teams want, we're not selling and what we want they're not selling. It's as simple as that.

Would you want to trade with or trust this Attilla The Hun kind of guy if you were another GM?

[King Knut]

THis was the trade I was hoping Homer could muster, but if the BLues were willing to swallow all of JBo's salary, then it's a moot point. Homer couldn't afford it and quite frankly, I don't think we'd have been happy if he could.

Yeah, but look what the Flames just got for J-Bo! Seriously.

[BearOnIce]

Don't be such a drama queen. This isn't Days of Our Lives. The fact is that teams want Schenn, Voracek, Couturier, Giroux, Simmonds and Read and Homer isn't willing to part with them yet... or at least teams DID want them before they ended up having such a mediocre year (except for Jake who's really come into his own this year).

Also, because of the shortened season no one is completely out of contention and thus they're not holding fire sales for stars (except Calgary apparently). Everyone is still a buyer. No one's a seller right now. There hasn't been a whole lot of movement league wide as a result. Think about it... the big deal Homer may or may not pull off is Ryan Clowe? Seriously?

Now add in to that equation the fact that Homer doesn't have much in the way of Salary Cap room because of various miscues over recent years -which while it's a GM mistake to be sure, not the sort of thing that other GMs will hold against you.

Also, what's wrong with this team has no quick fixes. We're not a puzzle piece away from a cup. Bringing in a Jagr or a Iginla might help a tad with the scoring, but ultimately, it's not going to make this team a playoff competitor because it's not addressing the serious core issues on defense and I think Homer is smart enough to know that. What he's going to do about it remains to be seen, but at this point, it's certainly keeping him from making a desperate trade for yet another D-Man at the end of his career.

GMs don't not deal with other GMs because of crap like Weber. GM's do what they need to to make their teams better. If Homer went to someone and said, "Hey, I'll give you Giroux for your best defenseman." They wouldn't poo poo the deal out of spite because of something Homer did last summer.

It's a business. What other teams want, we're not selling and what we want they're not selling. It's as simple as that.

Not so hard Knut or you'll blow a nut!