Why does everyone hate the Streit signing?

[murraycraven]

My fear was that Homer was going to grossly overpay for someone who will be 36 before training camp and who will be 40 whent he contract expires. The cap hit on the contract is not terrible and you are getting a very good player who will immediately help QB the power play. He reads the ice so well that it will actually be fun to watch a dman break out of the zone and make a solid first pass Great shot from the point does not hurt either...

I would have pressed for a 3 year contract but I am sure someone would have gave him 4 years once he hit FA. Let it be known that while this helps the offensive side of the puck and breakout this does not address the defense in our own zone. He is an average defender so I assume Homer is going to make more moves to solidify the defense.

[flyerrod]

I think most people on here don't hate Mark Streit and what he brings to the table. They hate what he is GOING to bring to the table 4 years from now. This would have been a decent/good signing for 2 years but it sucks for 4. I was actually looking forward to seeing more playing time from guys like Lauridsen/Gustafsson who BOTH can and probably will be signed for less than 1/3 of what Streit got.

[radoran]

This would have I was actually looking forward to seeing more playing time from guys like Lauridsen/Gustafsson who BOTH can and probably will be signed for less than 1/3 of what Streit got.

You're forgetting the Flyers' mantra: the ice is always smoother in the other rink.

Why would they have any confidence in players they themselves scouted, drafted and signed?

I mean, consider the track record.

[DaGreatGazoo]

I don't hate the signing, but I don't love it either. Streit fills a need the Flyers had with Carle's departure(yes, it's Homer's fault Carle left). He improves the breakout, improves their puck possession and, hopefully, will take some pressure off Kimmo's minutes. I think the term is a year too long, but the money isn't out of line with the market.

Like many have said..."meh".

Edited June 18, 2013 by DaGreatGazoo

[murraycraven]

I just read an article on PuckDaddy which called the move "backcrap insane" and an "incredible overpayment. Here it is:

Less than a week after acquiring the rights to Mark Streit from the New York Islanders, the Philadelphia Flyers and Streit have agreed to a deal in principle.

Considering Streit would have been the biggest-name defenceman on the market had he made it to July 5 unsigned, it must have taken some serious cash to get him under contract so early, right?

Oh, absolutely. It's a four-year contract, according to reports, that will pay Streit a whopping $5.25 million a season.

(Whoa! That's Dennis Wideman money!)

We remind you that Streit is 35 years old and there is no way to undo this contract -- which is north of both $5 million and reason -- once it's made official.

Someone call Paul Holmgren and remind him the cap is going down.

What makes this incredible overpayment even more incredible is that it can't be made official just yet because, in order to make room for this silliness, the Flyers have to clear other silliness from the books. From the Courier Post:

The issue comes with what can fit within the salary cap’s upper limit. Teams are still operating under the 2012-13 salary cap of $70.2 million until July 5, at which point it becomes $64.3 million. The Flyers will need to shed salary before then, because their cap payroll is $69.812 million.

When the new cap is in play, teams can go over the upper limit by 10 percent until opening night, but July 5 is also the start of free agency this summer. If the Flyers don’t come to an agreement with Streit before then, they lose exclusivity in negotiations and the 10-percent buffer does them no good with him. Also, if the Flyers extend an offer sheet to a restricted free agent or send a qualifying offer to one of their own, that also counts against the cap.

You'll recall, when the deal for Streit's rights was made, we hypothesized -- along with several others -- that this spelled the end of Ilya Bryzgalov and/or Daniel Briere in Philadelphia.

Well, you can consider their amnesty buyouts upgraded from "foreshadowed" to "necessitated". In order for the Flyers to seal this batcrap insane deal -- or do anything else, really -- they have to make a little room.

The amnesty buyout period begins 48 hours after the Stanley Cup Final.

UPDATE: GM Paul Holmgren offered this curious statement on Monday night:

"We continue to have talks with Mark's agent. Although there is nothing to report, we remain confident that we will get something done."

The Flyers need to clear out some salary before they ink Streit. Still ... curious.

[LegionOfDoom]

I think three years would of been the ideal, but we're up against the market, and that's the asking price.

If we would of had a solid 1, 2 defensement pairing we wouldn't of agreed to 4 years, maybe more like two. But the fact is we are in a position of want, beggers can't be choosers to an extent, we are not negotiating in a position of strength, but of weakness and that is why we are in a buyers mode.

We need some help in "offensive defense" but our main problem that we need to fix(and it can never be had through a trade) is TEAM Defense. Fix that and this signing will be a complement.

We still have team injuries to deal with on D, and in Streit we will have him in the lineup helping our youth out, hopefully giving them pointers along with Timmo.

Having a veteran giving out direction and insight cannot be overstated, in fact IS required if you want your young talent to blossom. If your in it for the long haul, you need to pencil that player in your line up, it's "mando". Those extra "two years" I'm hoping will be our Return On Investment in Streit, to give our offensive defensemen youth the gems of knowledge to raise their game to the next level.

All in all, ROI wise it's a good pickup.

(For those still having difficulty in this signing...let's look at the Jagr pickup, many and I mean many including myself, were scratching our heads saying, "huh, Jagr? I know he's a hall of famer but Jagr?, now? wasn't even in the league last year, huh?)

He was the Best signing of the year. He even brought up Freakin' man down Hartnell to ALL-STAR status, and gave G, the wisdom(especially Harts)the purpose and reward of working out the true way to improve your career.

That is what this signing to a small extent may have on our young defenders, to a small extent once again.(Maybe even a tiny morsel, but a morsel none the less.)

Remember next year might/will be Timmo's last....who do we have that can replace Timmo's veteranship(defensemen wise)? No one...well now we have Streit, he was a captain you know.

[murraycraven]

We need some help in "offensive defense" but our main problem that we need to fix(and it can never be had through a trade) is TEAM Defense. Fix that and this signing will be a complement.

This my friend is a very astute statement.

[radoran]

(For those still having difficulty in this signing...let's look at the Jagr pickup, many and I mean many including myself, were scratching our heads saying, "huh, Jagr? I know he's a hall of famer but Jagr?, now? wasn't even in the league last year, huh?)

He was the Best signing of the year. He even brought up Freakin' man down Hartnell to ALL-STAR status, and gave G, the wisdom(especially Harts)the purpose and reward of working out the true way to improve your career.

Well, at least they replaced Jagr with Parise.

What? That didn't happen? Well, surely the kept "the Best signing of the year" who "brought up freakin' man down Hartnell" and stopped him from falling off a cliff points-wise this year.

What? That didn't happen? Well, surely they kept "the Best signing of the year" to mentor Jake Voracek, who grew up with Jagr's poster on his wall.

What? That didn't happen? Well, surely they signed Carle for his asking price, because the market for a 28-year-old 40-point defenseman is what it is.

What? That didn't happen? Well, at least they replaced Carle with Suter.

What? That didn't happen?

Point being here, if you fire off a shotgun, chances are you're going to hit something.

But it still makes a godawful mess.

[JackStraw]

a) Confident and consistent breakouts

b) a goaltender who can stop a lot of high percentage opportunities

Streit will definitely help with a). Addressing b) is still Homer's problem.

[mojo1917]

For the record, i don't hate this today talk to me in 2016 and i may be in extreme eye rolling mode after seeing him beaten wide for the umpteenth time...

there are positives with this signing, leadership/mentoring, + shot from the point, better breakouts and he stayed composed in his zone vs the Pens forecheck for most of the series games i watched, he's still a very nice skater probably + skater at 35, but that will decline which leads to the negatives; his age today and at the end of the contract, and he's only adequate defensively . Will his contract prevent moves from being made once TImmonen retires ? who knows will the cap go back up ? there are a lot of questions about the future. I think today this signing actually does make the team better. All things being equal i'd rather have Carle for that money and term but that ship has sailed .

[LegionOfDoom]

SHOTGUNS and CHARLATAN'S, sounds like an old boys club to me.

I am not and will not be in a position to defend the Flyers organization, I'm not financially invested to put myself in a position to do so, nor do I see the financial logistics to do so.

But I am a fan of my programmable inheritance. And we're dealing with fallable humans who happen to be causing an influxing of emotions to "our" passion for "our" team.

Rightly justifiable.

We the people cry out to you Flyers organiztion... Do us Right!... Do us Proud!

[caluso]

@pensuck

how develop a long-term strategy for once

target 2012, do not do anything thats going to affect the cap for 2016 and forward

Why?

because they're not winning the cup this season or the next

if they demonstrated patience and actually developed a PLAN then by 2016 they'd be ready to make some noise.

But now this idiotic contract will hinder their ability to make moves for 2016/2017.

You don't build a champion by putting all your chips into the upcoming season, every single season.

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't think there would be a single complaint from any real Flyers fan if the team went into a "rebuilding" mode.

The problem is that Gomer (Snider) has NO REAL PLAN. He has NO VISION. He has NO PATIENCE. And, quite frankly, its apparent he has a mediocre eye for talent.

He is always chasing LAST year's cup, building the team to compete with whomever won LAST year.

They were committed to the "left-wing lock" (ugh) until they saw the success that the Rangers had last year so they tried to mimick what the Rangers did, despite the fact that there was no training camp to implement new strategy; and, oh yea, the Flyers' roster and the Rangers' roster were constructed totally differently. What a joke!

[JackStraw]

I'm curious as to what exactly people think was the alternative to getting Streit. Stay pat and let the young guys develop? Other than Gus, who will get his playing time, which young guys exactly? Lauridsen is not an alternative to Streit. Maybe he'll turn into an alternative to Grossman, but he'll never be a puck mover. Manning? Why, because he has the same last name as Peyton? Last I heard he was struggling on the Phantoms this season. The Flyers have no real highly regarded defensive prospects in the system. None. Zero. Nada. The cavalry is not coming folks, sorry.

Gus was terrible early in the year, they sent him down and he got things together and played well down the stretch. Still, he's not a sure thing by any means. I expect he will make the team and get regular playing time this season. Having Timmo and Streit around for him to learn from is a good thing. After next season, assuming Timmo retires, he will still have Streit around to learn from. Again, that's a good thing. You don't sign Streit then after Timmo retires you have no one.

As far as I know, the draft hasn't been cancelled. The Flyers still have the #11 pick, plus other rounds. Anyone really believe that 4th Homer gave up will come back to haunt us? Let's imagine that the Flyers finally see the error of their past ways and decide to draft and develop D. Maybe they take Ristoleinen. Maybe they get lucky or clever and get Nurse. Maybe they get lucky or clever again and get Hagg in the 2nd round. Or someone(s) else similar. They can give those kids 2-3 years to develop before bringing them to the NHL. They will, after next year, still have Gus and Streit (at minimum).

Maybe in 2 years Risto or Nurse or whoever is ready for limited NHL time. Maybe a year after that another kid is ready.

Am I the only one that thinks that this actually makes sense as part of a long term plan? Because it's pretty much what I would do in Homer's place. Plug the hole with the best option available at the time. Then look to the future in the place it makes sense to do so, that being the draft.

If you think a complete rebuild is the way to go, look at the roster. There is way too much talent on this team right now (even without Streit) for a really high draft pick. We learned that this year. The team has one of the best groups of young forwards around, and they are producing now (for the most part). If Homer did nothing we would be looking at a borderline playoff team, again. With better goaltending and an change in the coaching strategy, maybe better than borderline. Complete rebuild is not even close to being an option.

The real option to Streit was to pay more (in $$$ and trade assets) for a younger, but probably not THAT much better, version of Streit. And I guess that's still a possibility. But it would have been a virtual certainty without Streit.

They will buy out Briere, and probably Bryz. What are they supposed to do with all that cap space, invest in government bonds? Pay even more for another high priced free agent on an even longer contract?

I would love to hear an actual REALISTIC alternative plan.

[radoran]

I'm curious as to what exactly people think was the alternative to getting Streit. Stay pat and let the young guys develop? Other than Gus, who will get his playing time, which young guys exactly? Lauridsen is not an alternative to Streit. Maybe he'll turn into an alternative to Grossman, but he'll never be a puck mover. Manning? Why, because he has the same last name as Peyton? Last I heard he was struggling on the Phantoms this season. The Flyers have no real highly regarded defensive prospects in the system. None. Zero. Nada. The cavalry is not coming folks, sorry.

Gustaffsson was widely regard as the second-best, if not the best defenseman at the World Championships this year.

And, as you note, there is still the draft this year.

Why the rush to ink Streit to a four-year deal?

Where the organization (term used loosely) has put itself is in a corner and they HAD to make this move. Fine.

STOP PUTTING YOURSELF IN THE *****G CORNER.

[JackStraw]

Gustaffsson was widely regard as the second-best, if not the best defenseman at the World Championships this year.

And, as you note, there is still the draft this year.

Why the rush to ink Streit to a four-year deal?

Where the organization (term used loosely) has put itself is in a corner and they HAD to make this move. Fine.

STOP PUTTING YOURSELF IN THE *****G CORNER.

The organization certainly put itself in this position, but just because you find yourself in a bad position doesn't mean you should just stay there. I like Gus but a few good weeks at the end of a lost NHL season and a good WC tourney doesn't make him a #1 D. I personally don't think he will ever be that. I'd love to be wrong but I just don't see enough evidence to suggest otherwise. And even if he does turn into one, how does having Streit around prevent that? Again, after this season, assuming Timo retires, what happens without Streit? You can't go with Gus alone, we saw what happened this year with just one PMD, and Gus is not going to be as good as Timo (keep in mind Timo's $6M also comes off the books, so there's even more cap space).

Nobody the Flyers could draft this year will be that ready in another year. So you end up having to trade or go the FA route anyway. I really don't get why people seem to think that getting Streit has some kind of negative impact on anything.

[murraycraven]

@ Jack...

Great post and I think you are right on point.

I was originally scared to death what this deal could potentionally turn into from a cap hit perspective. I think Streit's contract is very average for what he would command on the open market. We gave nothing up to get exclusive bargaining rights for a player that has a great shot, can move the puck and can be the QB on an already very good power play. If Streit hit the open market he would have signed a four year deal with someone. Althought I would like to see a 3 year term sometimes you need to make the best available move to sure up a putrid defense.

Without doubt I think the Flyers have to draft a defenseman in the draft. If Nurse falls to us that would be oustanding. If not I think Risto is available at #11 and I truly think he is going to be a very good player in the NHL. He might be ready to play in the NHL right away considering his size and skating ability. He is a big man that plays w/ an edge. If I am the Flyers I stand pat and take Risto at 11 unless there is a way you can move into the top 5 w/out giving away our young core.

Say they draft one of Nurse, Risto or Pulock... you have a young kid in Gus that will be getting limited minutes with the Flyers this year and you groom the draft pick form this year. All the while you save $ by buying out Briere and Bryz and then gain more after Kimmo's retirement after next season. I understand that we have to pay our young core soon.

I would much rather have Streit than anything else that is going to come from FA. The contract IMO is not ludicrous but there is a risk simply b/c it is a >35 contract.

[JackStraw]

@murraycraven - That's pretty much exactly how I see it. I would honestly love to see them draft D in the first two rounds. Or maybe somehow trade for a 2nd, late 1st rounder. If you are ever going to draft D, this would seem to be the year to do it. Fwiw, there is another article in the paper today mentioning how much the Flyers like Nurse (and apparently the feeling is mutual): http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/20130618_Advice_from_Uncle_Donovan.html

I would love to get him.

[peter puck]

Does this mean Homer drafts a big physical center

[brelic]

I'm curious as to what exactly people think was the alternative to getting Streit. Stay pat and let the young guys develop?

You make a lot of good points, JS. But, the simplest answer is that the alternative to getting Streit was to do nothing and see what else is available later.

So, our GM says "We're prepared to give you two years, Mark". Streit replies, "Well, I'm looking for four."

Now, our GM says "Ok, sure, you'll get four."

But an astute GM would say "Sorry, but that's not in our long-term plan. You're going to be 36 years old, and we are only interested in a two year commitment."

If he walks, he walks. So you've lost a 4th rounder. Big deal. But you stuck to your plan.

[magnumpi]

@ JackStraw

you're missing the big picture

Intelligent GMing 101

Facts

The Flyers are not winning the cup in 2014 or 2015. There's too many holes. Too many young players need time to develop

By 2016 players like the Schenns, Vorachek, Courtier will be about to blossom. Giroux will be in his prime. There are other players who will be better by 2016.

Therefore, you don't take cap hits for 2016/2017 unless youre extending a young player like Giroux or signing a player that is going to help 2016 and beyond. Streit will not be worth the contract by 2016.

Having an intelligent plan doesn't always mean DOING SOMETHING.

Realize this team needs a couple years of developing properly and then you get aggressive in 2016. For now develop the team and stay patient.

You're advocating the band aid approach that has never worked for this organization.

And I contend this organization has had no clear plan/strategy since the end of the Lindros era.

At some point you need to take a couple steps back for a couple seasons, develop players and then get aggressive.

This mentality of "oh, we have to do something, we have to spend our cap money, let's try to win the cup this season with no thought to the future" - DOES NOT WORK

[JackStraw]

@brelic - I don't really see that as an actual plan for addressing the shortcomings on the blue line. And I just don't see the 4 years as that big a deal. If he in fact gets a limited NTC then there is always the option of trading him for a bag of pucks after 2 or 3 years. They gave up nothing of value to get him so who would care what the get back for him? And honestly, I think having him for around for three years is good. He's a smart, veteran, leader type. With Pronger gone and Timo soon to follow, there will be a shortage of those types in the Flyers dressing room.

[peter puck]

@ Brelic If he doesn't sign I thought I read somewhere that the fourth turns into a seventh and Harper

Edited June 18, 2013 by peter puck

[JackStraw]

@ JackStraw

you're missing the big picture

Intelligent GMing 101

Facts

The Flyers are not winning the cup in 2014 or 2015. There's too many holes. Too many young players need time to develop

By 2016 players like the Schenns, Vorachek, Courtier will be about to blossom. Giroux will be in his prime. There are other players who will be better by 2016.

Therefore, you don't take cap hits for 2016/2017 unless youre extending a young player like Giroux or signing a player that is going to help 2016 and beyond. Streit will not be worth the contract by 2016.

Having an intelligent plan doesn't always mean DOING SOMETHING.

Realize this team needs a couple years of developing properly and then you get aggressive in 2016. For now develop the team and stay patient.

You're advocating the band aid approach that has never worked for this organization.

And I contend this organization has had no clear plan/strategy since the end of the Lindros era.

At some point you need to take a couple steps back for a couple seasons, develop players and then get aggressive.

This mentality of "oh, we have to do something, we have to spend our cap money, let's try to win the cup this season with no thought to the future" - DOES NOT WORK

So basically your plan comes down to wait a few years, build up cap space, and then go out and sign and or trade for expensive star players. Which is what the Flyers have been doing for decades.

Oh, and there was no clear plan during the Lindros era either, other than, let Eric do it. The last clear plan probably ended with the Clarke (as a player) era.

[murraycraven]

@murraycraven - That's pretty much exactly how I see it. I would honestly love to see them draft D in the first two rounds. Or maybe somehow trade for a 2nd, late 1st rounder. If you are ever going to draft D, this would seem to be the year to do it. Fwiw, there is another article in the paper today mentioning how much the Flyers like Nurse (and apparently the feeling is mutual): http://www.philly.co...le_Donovan.html

I would love to get him.

Absolutely... Nurse would be my target as well but I am frightened the Oilers will grab him. Maybe there is a deal out there that will get him in the O&B. He is my first pick if we can get him... I just dont think there is any chance to move up to #1 or #2 to grab Seth Jones but with Homer and crew you never know what they might be willing to pull off (albeit a very long shot)... If we cant get Nurse than I am all for grabbing Risto.

[magnumpi]

@JackStraw

you basically do not comprehend my point. and you're putting words in my mouth "build up cap space, and then go out and sign and or trade for expensive star players."

not wasting time talking to you, don't appreciate someone who is unable to comprehend and read the words in front of them without adding meaning that was never intended