Lindros and Brind'Amour

[ZeZel25]

Do they get in the Hall of Fame??? I believe Eric does, not sure on Rod

[flyercanuck]

@

Throw in Brindys wife and enter them as a menage-a-trois?

[ZeZel25]

@

Throw in Brindys wife and enter them as a menage-a-trois?

Between that circus way back when and the Hartnell and Carter garbage, I dont think I ever heard one team have rumors like that before

[flyercanuck]

@

The Leafs have had some real great "teammates"....Shane Courson for one, and Gary Leeman dating teammates Al Iafrates ex really helps bonding.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Neither of them should get in before Fred Shero. Period.

[Dynamo 47]

I think Lindros definitely should. If Cam Neely got in with his stats in a career cut short by injury then Lindros should as he has better stats than Cam Neely. Again just a shame of what if for his career as had he been healthy been an all time great.

On Facebook that have a great photo of the Legion of Doom Line playing golf with the LCB line at the Flyers Alumni Golf Outing. It was nice to see Lindros back in the fold and I would hope the team admits him to the Flyers HOF this season. As evidenced by the Winter Classic, he is still hugely popular with hockey fans in Philly.

[ZeZel25]

I think Lindros definitely should. If Cam Neely got in with his stats in a career cut short by injury then Lindros should as he has better stats than Cam Neely. Again just a shame of what if for his career as had he been healthy been an all time great.

On Facebook that have a great photo of the Legion of Doom Line playing golf with the LCB line at the Flyers Alumni Golf Outing. It was nice to see Lindros back in the fold and I would hope the team admits him to the Flyers HOF this season. As evidenced by the Winter Classic, he is still hugely popular with hockey fans in Philly.

I made a post, In another forum, a few years ago, WITH STATS, on why I think Lindros should be in. I think it's a no brainer...

Edited July 8, 2013 by twpguy

[Mad Dog]

Lindros *should* get into the HOF, but he probably won't since he doesn't have Cup.

Brind'Amour, on the other hand, *does* have Cup, but I just don't think he is a HOF material.

[ZeZel25]

I made a post, In another forum, a few years ago, WITH STATS, on why I think Lindros should be in. I think it's a no brainer...

Here is that post...

This is my answer to that.

- He is among the top 20 (14th) in NHL history in points/game (all those above him and eligible for the Hall are in)

- He is one of 8 players in NHL history to record 4 or more seasons at 1.5pts/gm or better (Orr, Esposito, Gretzky, Lemieux, Dionne, Bossy, and Peter Stastny are the others - all whom are in the Hall, in fact every player in NHL history who is eligible for the Hall of Fame and averaged 1.5 points a game in a season more than once - is in the Hall of Fame)

- During the 90s, only Gretzky and Lemieux had higher pts/game averages (When Lindros' career ended with Philadelphia, he was 7th in NHL history in pts/game)

-- 1 Hart trophy (All players eligible for the Hall of Fame who have won the Hart Trophy except Al Rollins - are in the hall of Fame)

- 1 Pearson trophy ((All players eligible for the Hall of Fame who have won the Pearson Trophy - are in the hall of Fame)

- 6 NHL All-Star Games (All players eligible for the Hall of Fame who have played at least 6 all-star games - are in the hall of Fame)

- 1 NHL First Team All-Star

- 1 NHL Second Team All Star

- 1 Olympic Gold Medal (2002)

- 2 World Junior Goild Medals (1990 and 1991, and youngest to do so)

- 1 Canada Cup Championship (1991, and youngest to do so)

- highest points/game in Philadelphia history- fastest Flyer to 50 goals, 100 goals, 150 goals, 200 goals and 250 goals

- fastest Flyer to 100pts, 200pts, 300pts, 400pts, 500pts and 600pts (and he got to the first 5 markers faster than Crosby and Ovechkin, and since people say Ovechkin's a Hall of Famer now....and he's behind Lindros' pace....)

In a head to head comparison with Cam Neely, Lindros played 34 MORE games (so career length isn't an issue with Lindros if it wasn't with Neely) and scored 171 MORE points - so there goes the 'career is too short argument' - especially as he also had a longer career than Mike Bossy and Bobby Orr and played in a less offensive era than Neely (and Bossy)

Neely won ONE award, the Masterton, and was NEVER a post-season 1st team all-star.

Lindros won a Hart Trophy, was a finalist 2 other times, won the Lester Pearson Award, was a finalist 3 other times, was a post-season first team all-star.

In the playoffs, Neely averaged less than a point a game, Lindros averaged OVER a point a game (Lindros had the highest average point/game of all NHL players in the playoffs over the 1995-2004 period)

There are 71 members of the Hall of Fame with fewer games played than Lindros, only 2 of these players scored more points than Lindros (Orr and Bossy)

So, if the Hall of Fame can find room for people with career lengths like Lindros or shorter, they will find room for Eric.

Compared against his peers (as is the criteria set out by the Hall of Fame), Lindros was head and shoulders above them during his career, and it is because of that fact that Lindros will be inducted.

[Green Man]

yes and a resounding yes.

[King Knut]

We're a good town for rumors like that... If you're of an age you may remember the one about Jerry Pennacoli and the Emergency Room.

We're a really good town at making crap up or exaggerating subtle nothings to absurd degrees.

I dont think I ever heard one team have rumors like that before

[King Knut]

That has not stopped a ton of people from getting into the Hall of Fame. Lindros should be in if for no other reason than he changed the way the game is played.

The clutch and grab hockey of the mid 90's to the mid 2000's that resulted in all the annoying rules changes that we all grumble about now was a direct result of teams around the league simply not being able to contain Lindros.

It was also a result of every team thinking they needed to play a trap but most teams simply not being talented enough to pull it off.

I sometimes wonder how the 1997 finals (or the 1995 or 2000 conf. finals for that matter) would have gone had today's interference and holding rules been in place. I also sometimes enjoy beating myself about the head with a nine iron because that feels slightly less painful.

Lindros is in despite not winning a cup, as deserving as he may have been otherwise, Rod probably wouldn't be getting in without having won the cup. Both are deserving IMHO.

Lindros *should* get into the HOF, but he probably won't since he doesn't have Cup.

[pensuck]

Lindros was a beast and had some serious scoring touch to boot.

Who's gonna post some of his hi lights???

[sarsippius]

No on both. Lindros is right on the cusp. Brind Amour was a very good but not great player. He *was*, however, a great leader.

[Polaris922]

That has not stopped a ton of people from getting into the Hall of Fame. Lindros should be in if for no other reason than he changed the way the game is played.

The clutch and grab hockey of the mid 90's to the mid 2000's that resulted in all the annoying rules changes that we all grumble about now was a direct result of teams around the league simply not being able to contain Lindros.

That statement is a reach at best. There were multiple reasons for clutch & grab, mostly dealing with finances and talent disparities between teams. There were many names that were "unstoppable" without it, and Lindros was one, but first and foremost of that era was Lemieux.

Lindros DID change the game in the way concussions were handled.

I agree with the idea that Lindros makes the hall of fame. I think his stats support it, and his accomplishments as a player.

But I still hate him.

[murraycraven]

That statement is a reach at best. There were multiple reasons for clutch & grab, mostly dealing with finances and talent disparities between teams. There were many names that were "unstoppable" without it, and Lindros was one, but first and foremost of that era was Lemieux.

Lindros DID change the game in the way concussions were handled.

I agree with the idea that Lindros makes the hall of fame. I think his stats support it, and his accomplishments as a player.

But I still hate him.

you will get mo argument from me Polaris... Lemieux was the original and the torch was passed to Lindros. But I still hate Lemeiux

[Polaris922]

you will get mo argument from me Polaris... Lemieux was the original and the torch was passed to Lindros. But I still hate Lemeiux :lol:/>

I'd wonder about your allegiance if you didn't! Lol

[King Knut]

Respectfully, I disagree. Mario was terrorizing defenses for a number of years by the time Eric entered the league. The game was not marred by that style of Hockey in 1992 when Mario had been in the league what 5 or 6 years already? By 1995 with the emergence of the Claude Lemieux/Ken Danyko era Devils, the transformation had begun.

In the mid 80's when Mario came along high octane scoring was rampant. The Flyers were among the rare competitive teams that did not have multiple 100 point scorers. Gretzky, Yzerman, Savard, Hawerchuck, Stastny, Kurri, Dionne (who was pretty old at that point), Trottier, Bossy, & guys like that were just lighting up the lights in and out. Those players changed the way the game was played offensively... players started watching them and imitating them and doing what they did in order to score goals and thread insane passes. Teams could compete with those players by getting players to play like that. By the early 90's you had young guys like Bure, Selanne, Jagr, etc who grew up watching Wayne and Mario that were helping teams compete with all those established stars.

But no one could imitate what Lindros and then Forseberg did. It was a combination of size, speed and skill that couldn't be replicated. You couldn't compete with it by doing it yourself, the only way to compete was to try to shut it down.

I hear what you're saying about expansion and talent pool thinning, but I also think that plays into what I'm saying too. There were less talented defenders trying to defend against a few players that couldn't be stopped by even the more talented defenders. I hear the talent pool drying up argument, but that ignores the fact that the best veterans and young players from behind the Iron Curtain were finally seeing the NHL at this point. So yeah, there were three more teams to fill out in the early 90's but there were a TON more talented defensemen to choose from than ever before. There were also new coaches and coaching tactics in play now as well...

Enter the trap and the clutch and grab style that defined the era and changed the rule book.

Hate him or love him, had it not been for what defenses were allowed to do to him, Lindros would have been a perennial 100 pt. scorer, he would have missed far fewer games due to injury and he may just have won a cup or three.

The absence of clutch and grab style I lament so much wouldn't have changed much about the Stevens hit that ruined Lindros' career, but it would have saved him from a lot of the other B.S. that lead up to it (especially the non concussion stuff like the punctured lung). Which could have meant that the Stevens hit would have been less devastating had it happened anyway.

Teams were permitted to get away with a lot when it came to Lindros. People didn't like him much, fans loved to hate him and the league didn't protect him the way it does the stars of today.

There were many names that were "unstoppable" without it, and Lindros was one, but first and foremost of that era was Lemieux.

[DaGreatGazoo]

Good article about the E-train...

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2013/07/07/20957591.html

[Polaris922]

@King Knut

The clutch and grab started because Mario and similar names were so unstoppable, Lindros included. I remember pretty well the sessions of Lemieux taking heat for calling it out and challenging the league to put a stop to it, both as a player and later as an owner. I agree Lindros was hampered by it, but it had been happening already.

[King Knut]

So you're saying that as with everything else in the NHL for the past 25 years, it only happened because of Mario Lemieux?

I once read that hockey is only played with skates on ice because a psychic had a vision in which he saw that one day Mario Lemieux would want it played that way.

Joking aside, what you're saying just doesn't add up with the numbers and dates. Mario started complaining Circa 1994. If clutching and grabbing happened because of Mario, wouldn't it have begun sometime before his 9th season of nearly utter domination? Furthermore, the clutch and grab didn't really affect Mario's scoring or his games played much after it's inception. When he was healthy, he was putting up similar numbers in the mid to late 90's as he was in the mid 80's.

Even when he came back, he scored 161 points. Circumstantially, he may have been held and interfered with a bit here and there, but as a league wide systemic problem that affected every team night in and out, the clutch and grab as a league wide phenomenon was almost a direct response to the Devils winning the cup in 1995 despite not having much in the way of star talent. It reached it's Zenith of viability with the Redwings cups in '96 & '97. After that the league became a parody of itself with teams getting away with murder -figuratively- interfering with players in ways that would not have been legal before but were commonly excused at that point (How the hell else could Ken Hitchcock ever have coached a team to a cup?).

League officials changed the rules and kept changing the rules because they thought fans wanted more scoring... the game wasn't boring because there wasn't enough scoring, the game was boring because the trap and clutch and grab slowed everything down and ruined the flow.

The clutch and grab started because Mario and similar names were so unstoppable, Lindros included. I remember pretty well the sessions of Lemieux taking heat for calling it out and challenging the league to put a stop to it, both as a player and later as an owner. I agree Lindros was hampered by it, but it had been happening already.

[Polaris922]

@King Knut

Not because of Lemieux. Lol. Thank you though for the sarcasm! But I felt that was sweeping the league as a result if the rampant scoring that he was a part of. Great talents came through as you said, and goal totals were climbing. Lindros got in as the clutch and grab was blossoming into a systematic approach. It had already started, but became a steady league wide problem. Can I quote exact dates? Nobody can. But I still say crediting Lindros with creating that is a huge exaggeration. He was one of many, some of whom arrived before him, and some continued to struggle with it after. It was truly a frustrating era for hockey.

[AndyS]

Hate him or love him, had it not been for what defenses were allowed to do to him, Lindros would have been a perennial 100 pt. scorer, he would have missed far fewer games due to injury and he may just have won a cup or three.

The absence of clutch and grab style I lament so much wouldn't have changed much about the Stevens hit that ruined Lindros' career, but it would have saved him from a lot of the other B.S. that lead up to it (especially the non concussion stuff like the punctured lung). Which could have meant that the Stevens hit would have been less devastating had it happened anyway.

Teams were permitted to get away with a lot when it came to Lindros. People didn't like him much, fans loved to hate him and the league didn't protect him the way it does the stars of today.

Couldn't say it better myself.

Of course, having more than one (or two) lines would have helped a lot too.

[falcor1313]

Lindros *should* get into the HOF, but he probably won't since he doesn't have Cup.

Brind'Amour, on the other hand, *does* have Cup, but I just don't think he is a HOF material.

that iron man stat is a big thing....i think even bigger then bret favres

[Samifan]

Lindros changed the game both on the ice and off. He was a wrecking ball on the ice and proved you could be both a skilled scorer/playmaker and be a nasty physical presence.

Off the ice he proved that you should never have your parents as your agents

Edited July 9, 2013 by Samifan