imo snider freaked over richards and carter partying

[blogginbutch]

 traded lupul,sbisa,upshall, brought in pronger,fired hitchcock then put their favorite coach stevens in just to try to keep richards and carter here. Nothing helped. Dont think Holdgrem had a choice ,had to then trade richards and carter. Imo if we still had that lineup and G we would be a much better team.

[fanaticV3.0]

 traded lupul,sbisa,upshall, brought in pronger,fired hitchcock then put their favorite coach stevens in just to try to keep richards and carter here. Nothing helped. Dont think Holdgrem had a choice ,had to then trade richards and carter. Imo if we still had that lineup and G we would be a much better team.

 

So, if they did all that to try and accommodate said players, doesn't it say something about them that there was still a problem after all that?

[Samifan]

Was it Snider that had a problem with Carter and Richards drinking and banging everything in site or was it Lavy.? Didn't Lavy come up with dry island?

[murraycraven]

So, if they did all that to try and accommodate said players, doesn't it say something about them that there was still a problem after all that?

 

Agreed...  

 

Although we will never know the full storyI still think those trades are fine.   I really wish we could get the full story on this situation b/c I am sure it would be one hell of a read.  If Richards and Carter were the only two (on being the C) that would not agree w/ dry island it does not reveal much for their dedication to the Team.  I always loved Richards but he did not help himself out with the media... he was never comfortable and then the media war began.  I think when that all started the Flyers were already thinking about moving these guys...

 

We will see in the end how it works out.   Personally, if Schenn turns into the player that most project this trade will be a decent one.  Time will tell I guess...

[doom88]

I still want Mike Richards back in Philly. Carter, not so sure. I got really sick of constant high and wide. That said, I didn't dislike Carter nearly as much as others.

[flyercanuck]

Isn't this kind of old news?

 

It's done. At least 5 years from now when Richards and Carter are nearing the end of their career we'll (hopefully) still have Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier and maybe Cousins playing good hockey. Maybe if our mangement (yes I left out an A) tried to build something around them for that time, instead of right @#$%ing now all the time?

[murraycraven]

Stop it FC... Just stop it with your sensible posts....

[radoran]

Isn't this kind of old news?

 

It's done. At least 5 years from now when Richards and Carter are nearing the end of their career we'll (hopefully) still have Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier and maybe Cousins playing good hockey. Maybe if our mangement (yes I left out an A) tried to build something around them for that time, instead of right @#$%ing now all the time?

 

In five years Richards will still have two more years on his deal. Carter will have four.

 

Simmonds will be at the end of his current deal and Voracek will be in a new one - assuming he's not "disappointing" and dealt at the deadline for defensive help to "make a run".

 

Cousins? Seriously?

[murraycraven]

Jesus Rad... The question I pose is it vanilla or chocolate cake? Lol....

[flyercanuck]

In five years Richards will still have two more years on his deal. Carter will have four.

 

Simmonds will be at the end of his current deal and Voracek will be in a new one - assuming he's not "disappointing" and dealt at the deadline for defensive help to "make a run".

 

Cousins? Seriously?

 

 OK, by "nearing the end of their career" I meant productivity, not just being paid on a dumb contract.

 

 As for Cousins, there's always hope. I mean I'm not holding my breath or anything, but...

[AlaskaFlyerFan]

In five years Richards will still have two more years on his deal. Carter will have four.

 

 

@Jesusradoran,

 

So it will only be a couple more years before Homer can sign them to another 7 year, over 35 contract.

[blogginbutch]

just think Snider didnt want another Lindros spectacle ( carter and hartnell ) .

[hf101]

@blogginbutch

 

Welcome

 

I actually think it goes back much farther than that.  The organization didn't want another Pelle Lindbergh tragedy.  Management tried various ways to change their ways.  Both Richards an Carter were the face of the franchise, players were brought in around them who made the situation worse, and one by one the supporting cast was traded, still they did not take to managements desires. The organization gave them the leadership roles to which they both failed, they brought in leaders around them, which divided the room.

 

To defend Holmgren he really had no other choice but to trade them before they became permanent fixtures.

Edited October 18, 2013 by hf101
correction

[King Knut]

What G from that lineup do you want? Biron?

They traded up shall because homer screwed up the cap

They fired hitch because the team had been bad and getting worse and because he was awful at making a system for the talent he had and without a healthy hatcher.

Printer was a miscalculation that almost got us a cup (again... Thanks a lot Leighton).

Homer basically restocked our coffers in young talent by trading their too tier talent and gambled on the goalie I can only hope snider told him to get at all costs or be fired. Stevens was a decent coach. Seeing what the team did in the last two ears under Lavvy, I really don't blame Stevens.

Still mt sure what partying has to do with any of it. If snider didn't like the partying, then whatever trade them, but it wasn't the reason they lost the cup.

And having sober players isn't helping them not suck ass the past two seasons now.

traded lupul,sbisa,upshall, brought in pronger,fired hitchcock then put their favorite coach stevens in just to try to keep richards and carter here. Nothing helped. Dont think Holdgrem had a choice ,had to then trade richards and carter. Imo if we still had that lineup and G we would be a much better team.

[King Knut]

It says nothing! They went to LA and lead the team to the cup and back to back conference finals appearances while the flyers exited in the 2nd round and missed the playoffs.

Neither they nor their presumed partying were obviously not the problems.

I can't believe we're still having this discussion. Carter & Richards = Cup

Without them = crap.

Let's review:

Every year carter and Richards have played in the playoffs their team has either won the cup, lost in the conference finals or lost to the eventual cup winner.

The flyers haven't made it out of the 2nd round (or into the playoffs at all) since they left.

We need to stop fooling ourselves on this. We pretend like th teams's better off somehow.

There's no discussion!

The debate is over. I don't care if they were high in crack cocaine and stoned and drunk every game. The flyers were better when they were here and now the kings are Better that they are there.

I like what we got for them, but come on... A cup and conference finals are way damn better!

So, if they did all that to try and accommodate said players, doesn't it say something about them that there was still a problem after all that?

[Poulin20]

 

I actually think it goes back much farther than that.  The organization didn't want another Pelle Eklund Lindbergh tragedy.  

 

The only tragedy regarding Pelle Eklund is that he is the namesake for a certain guy at Hockeybuzz who shall remain nameless!

Edited October 18, 2013 by Poulin20

[hf101]

@Poulin20

 

Thanks, I'll fix my mistake.  

[fanaticV3.0]

Agreed...  

 

Although we will never know the full storyI still think those trades are fine.   I really wish we could get the full story on this situation b/c I am sure it would be one hell of a read.  If Richards and Carter were the only two (on being the C) that would not agree w/ dry island it does not reveal much for their dedication to the Team.  I always loved Richards but he did not help himself out with the media... he was never comfortable and then the media war began.  I think when that all started the Flyers were already thinking about moving these guys...

 

We will see in the end how it works out.   Personally, if Schenn turns into the player that most project this trade will be a decent one.  Time will tell I guess...

 

It's just time to move on. Even if you like them, you just have to come to the realization it wasn't working here. They weren't going to change who they were here, the relationships in the lockerroom were bad, it was time to cut ties. Do I think it's a little silly that a coach actually has to ask his team to not drink? Yes, I do. But if the drinking got to the point where that question even has to be brought up, it says something about their character (so does them being some of the only ones refusing to do it).

 

Schenn is looking pretty good so far during this horrible year. Lets hope he keeps it up.

[fanaticV3.0]

It says nothing! They went to LA and lead the team to the cup and back to back conference finals appearances while the flyers exited in the 2nd round and missed the playoffs.

Neither they nor their presumed partying were obviously not the problems.

I can't believe we're still having this discussion. Carter & Richards = Cup

Without them = crap.

Let's review:

Every year carter and Richards have played in the playoffs their team has either won the cup, lost in the conference finals or lost to the eventual cup winner.

The flyers haven't made it out of the 2nd round (or into the playoffs at all) since they left.

We need to stop fooling ourselves on this. We pretend like th teams's better off somehow.

There's no discussion!

The debate is over. I don't care if they were high in crack cocaine and stoned and drunk every game. The flyers were better when they were here and now the kings are Better that they are there.

I like what we got for them, but come on... A cup and conference finals are way damn better!

 

 

Your screen name is rather appropriate.

[King Knut]

Holding back the sea of pathetic hockey and misinformation for a thousand years now.

 

I just can't believe with all that's going on people are still whining about Richards and Carter partying and everything the team supposedly did to accommodate them... like trading their friends.

 

What kind of management solves a partying problem by trading away talented players to "teach a lesson".

 

Even if they were partying too much... it very clearly wasn't the problem.

 

I just...  there are really no more words so I'll stop wasting mine. 

[brelic]

You know what? I think the Richards and Carter trades were ridiculous. It had to be so so bad for that to happen. And either it was, or someone perceived it to be. The team traded its captain - who I thought was the heart and soul of the team - and its top goal scorer to whom it had a combined 21 years committed to them.

This is how delusional they were and how they tried to sell this crapfest to the fans:

 

Flyers chairman, and founder, Ed Snider told The Associated Press the team is closer to winning a Stanley Cup now, rather than before the shakeup.

"Yes, I do," he said. "I like our goaltending, I like our defence, I like our forwards. We moved things around a little bit. I really think we're stronger."

It wouldn't have anything to do with a space cadet, would it?

 

Both moves provide the Flyers with significant salary-cap relief. Carter has 11 years remaining on a contract that counts more than $5.2 million US per season against the salary cap, while Richards has nine years left at an annual cap hit of $5.75 million.

With those obligations off their books, the Flyers would have more room to sign free agent goaltender Ilya Bryzgalov, whose negotiating rights they acquired from Phoenix last week.

Later Thursday, the Flyers announced they signed the franchise goalie to a multi-year contract. Canadian cable sports network TSN reported it was a nine-year deal worth $51 million US.

Ah... ok, so now what?

 

Forwards James van Riemsdyk and Claude Giroux have instantly become new cornerstones for the Atlantic Division champions, who were surprisingly swept in the second round by the eventual Stanley Cup-champion Boston Bruins.

"I think we have two good young players there that are on the verge of doing even better things for our team," Holmgren said. "So that certainly was a factor, particularly Claude. I view Claude as sort of Mike Richards-like in his competitiveness and his ability to do a lot of things for us offensively and defensively."

You see that? JVR was now a cornerstone since Richards and Carter - the old cornerstones - had just been traded away. Ok, sounds great.

But wait...

 

The Leafs GM pulled the trigger on a significant move after the NHL draft concluded, acquiring left-winger James van Riemsdyk from the Philadelphia Flyers for defenceman Luke Schenn.

Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren said the deal was one that had been talked about between he and Burke for sometime.

"Obviously it was something in the wintertime that Brian and I discussed in theory, and then I think we both decided to just table it," Holmgren said. "It came up again (Friday) and we talked about it. I believe it's a good trade for both teams. It certainly fills a need for us and I think it fills a need for Brian's team as well in terms of what they're looking to do."

If there's one thing this organization is good at it's pulling the wool over the eyes of its fans.

[Orangecat]

It says nothing! They went to LA and lead the team to the cup and back to back conference finals appearances while the flyers exited in the 2nd round and missed the playoffs.

Neither they nor their presumed partying were obviously not the problems.

I can't believe we're still having this discussion. Carter & Richards = Cup

Without them = crap.

Let's review:

Every year carter and Richards have played in the playoffs their team has either won the cup, lost in the conference finals or lost to the eventual cup winner.

The flyers haven't made it out of the 2nd round (or into the playoffs at all) since they left.

We need to stop fooling ourselves on this. We pretend like th teams's better off somehow.

There's no discussion!

The debate is over. I don't care if they were high in crack cocaine and stoned and drunk every game. The flyers were better when they were here and now the kings are Better that they are there.

I like what we got for them, but come on... A cup and conference finals are way damn better!

 

That sounds perfect to me.

 

I know there were issues between coach/management and a few of the players.

 

On my end...I don't really care what issues there are.  Be adults and work them out.  All I care about is the on-ice product.  With Richards and Carter, the on-ice product was good (minus the goaltending). Without them, it's tough to watch.  Last night was completely unenjoyable and management needs to be held accountable. 

 

We have crap players not supporting good goaltending efforts.  How the tide has turned.  It's uninspired, flat, boring hockey.  I kept thinking to myself last night as Mason made quality saves...(Someone needs to step up and produce for their goalie.  Take that energy from him constantly bailing the team out and push into the offensive zone).  Never happened.  Raffl was the only Flyer with jump.  Last night is just one example of the bad to mediocre (at best) hockey we saw last year and into this season. 

 

Flyers' fans should be outraged.  This team is bad, and is in need of a lot of help.

[King Knut]

I have caught such flack on this board for being outraged about this.

 

How is everyone not outraged?  It's inexcusable!

 

It's like Henry David Thoreau's friend asking him why he's in Prison for protesting and Thoreay responds, "why are yo NOT in prison?"

 

This is astonishing.  It's not the Phillies or the 76ers.  Missing the playoffs is not par for the coarse!  It's the Flyers!  

This is quite simply unacceptable.  This is not my team.  My team is not this bad on an indefinite basis.

 

Flyers' fans should be outraged. This team is bad, and is in need of a lot of help.

[radoran]

I have caught such flack on this board for being outraged about this.

 

How is everyone not outraged?  It's inexcusable!

 

It's like Henry David Thoreau's friend asking him why he's in Prison for protesting and Thoreay responds, "why are yo NOT in prison?"

 

This is astonishing.  It's not the Phillies or the 76ers.  Missing the playoffs is not par for the coarse!  It's the Flyers!  

This is quite simply unacceptable.  This is not my team.  My team is not this bad on an indefinite basis.

 

I think there are many who are also outraged and few, if any, that are happy.

 

In many cases, it's the means of presentation that raises the hackles.

 

Not the message, as it were, as opposed to the messenger.

[King Knut]

When did everyone get so thin skinned?

 

 

I think there are many who are also outraged and few, if any, that are happy.



In many cases, it's the means of presentation that raises the hackles.



Not the message, as it were, as opposed to the messenger.