Adamflyers Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 When my brother and I were at the Rangers game yesterday, we were talking to one of our season ticket buddies who sits behind us and he was telling us about his experience having happy hour with Flyers executives. This was one of the benefits he choose for renewing his tickets early last year. He had a chance to talk to Homer and he shared the contents of the conversation with us. He first asked Homer about whether he planned to make any moves at the deadline. His response was most likely not. He said that the impact players that would help the Flyers would cost more than they are willing to pay. He said if the fans wanted major moves, it would entail trading away core players, big prospects or draft picks. Here is where it gets juicy! Homer admitted that the Pronger deal really set the team back when it came to how many draft picks they gave up and they are no longer willing to sacrifice like that. He said the team is just now starting to recover from that trade. This brought up the topic of Shea Weber, and Homer stated that if the Flyers were to try to make a play on Weber, it would be something that would happen in the offseason or draft rather than the deadline, but again harkened back to the fact that it would probably cost too much. Homer then said that when looking at the Flyers future, don't look to the Phantoms. He said all the guys that have the team excited are either in college or juniors. Obviously he is referring to guys like Ghost, Morin and Hagg, which are the true impact prospects we have that fill our biggest need of D, as well at Laughton as yet another offensive weapon. I feel like I'm forgetting something he told us, but I was encouraged to hear that he sees the error of his ways with giving away so much for one player (as much I loved Pronger in O&B). It really did set the team back a ton and its good to hear that he is not planning to just go after the biggest name on the market. It sounds like he is actually planning out how the team will look in a few years rather than cutting and pruning to win right now. Obviously we have to take everything he says with a grain of salt, but I liked what he said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 @Adamflyers I'm glad to hear Holmgren say he's done trading youth away for old guys....the problem is, he also said that before the Pronger trade. I'll believe it when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Nice info, thanks!The Pronger situation is exaggerated by his career ending injury. You've got to wonder how subsequent events change if that doesn't happen, at least so soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doom88 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 @Adamflyers I'm glad to hear Holmgren say he's done trading youth away for old guys....the problem is, he also said that before the Pronger trade. I'll believe it when I see it.Old or not, he was the best defenseman in the league. A true number one who played all zones, all situations, physically, and led. I want him to make a reasonable exception for a guy of that caliber. **** Couturier if he lands the Flyers Duncan Keith or Shea Weber. And I LIKE Couturier a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 @doom88 Webers only 28. Keith is 30. Pronger was 5 years older than that. I know it was a fluke that ended his career. But I honestly didn't think he was going to make it to the end of that contract , and it was going to count against our cap anyway. Pronger played too physical a game to play til he was 42 effectively IMO. And I wouldn't have a problem with doing that type of trade once in awhile. Unfortunately, we seemed to be using that blueprint for our nucleus. And of course the present farm system is the result of trading all those picks away for a win now mentality that, well, never won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamflyers Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 @FCYea, I hear ya. That's why I'm taking it all with a grain of salt, but that's the first time I have heard him admit it was a crippling move. I hope he follows that mentality. I really believe this team is on the verge of good things if they don't trade away core players and big prospects. Not to say that all trades should be off limits, but hopefully it won't be an impulse buy.@doom88Trust me, I am a huge Pronger fan and loved every moment that man wore O&B. A player of his caliber was worth the risk and it almost paid off for them. Had he stayed healthy, our D would def be better but the biggest nightmare situation with a trade like that came true. Career ending injury and we are still out those picks . This team has to stay the course for once. I think it will pay major dividends if they hold onto their young players and picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Adam - There's some pretty good young talent up front, with Laughton and Leier maybe also coming. We finally have some reason for optimism at D with 3 decent prospects. Goal doesn't look like the empty desert we were looking at only a few years ago. All it takes is a few good picks and some patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamflyers Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 @FC100% I'm agreement with you. The O is already developing at the NHL level. The goaltending is finally something that is not a big question mark. Hopefully as the young D developes, the O will be almost fully developed. The timing could be just right for this team, as long as they don't get impatient if a guy is not an all star in his first season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pensuck Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Pronger Did Get Us To Within 2 Wins Of The Cup. No Way We Get There Without Him. Imagine If We Had A Goalie On That Team. But That's Another Story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murraycraven Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Nice to hear that Homer sees the errors. Maybe he sees the error of his ways... Maybe there is an actual plan in the fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo1917 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 John Buccigross, thinks Ghost will be on the 2nd power play unit next year.He's really high on him, plus somewhere around here is an article about him comparing him to Tory Krug... that would be fine by me.I also think that if his brain is okay Mark Alt might be the Luke Schenn we're looking for, he has a great pedigree in that his dad was an NFL player , he moves really well for a big guy. I also agree with Doom that if we had Pronger in the line up rather than playing the charade on LTIR we'd be seeing some better development from Gusstafson and Schenn. Hey 6 points in the first 3 games back from the break, both wins coming vs teams in the division.I don't feel like the future is too awful bleak, the present isn't all bad either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Homer admitted that the Pronger deal really set the team back when it came to how many draft picks they gave up and they are no longer willing to sacrifice like that. He said the team is just now starting to recover from that trade.Is it possible? Could there really be a God after all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamflyers Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Pronger Did Get Us To Within 2 Wins Of The Cup. No Way We Get There Without Him. Imagine If We Had A Goalie On That Team. But That's Another Story...I can't count the number of times I have lamented to my brother how we would have been Stanley Cup champs if Mason had been in net. I don't discount what Pronger did for this team in the least. I wear his jersey, so I was totally a fan. With what this team has developing in the NHL and in the juniors/college pipeline, I would not want to see a similar move made. The current team has a real chance to be good if they show some patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 @Adamflyers Thanks for the info! Sounds very promising. Even if the Flyers win the Cup in 2010, it still sets the franchise back 2-3 years because you're not restocking the cupboard with top end picks. The difference is just that we would have had a parade, and I would be more forgiving in that instance The Flyers have done a good job at identifying talent outside of the draft. Guys like Raffl, Gus, Read, Ghost. They're finding creative avenues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 @brelic You win the cup, the trade is worth it. That's the goal, so you do whatever it takes. But we didn't win the cup, and the cupboard was left bare. That year and a half of Pronger and 8 games of Eminger and the stupid Versteeg deal (and all the throw-ins of 2nds and 3rds) set the team back about 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 @brelic You win the cup, the trade is worth it. That's the goal, so you do whatever it takes. But we didn't win the cup, and the cupboard was left bare. That year and a half of Pronger and 8 games of Eminger and the stupid Versteeg deal (and all the throw-ins of 2nds and 3rds) set the team back about 5 years. The Richards/Carter deals also set the franchise back about 3-4 years. I really wish we had drafted Carlson instead of trading for Eminger. That was a brutal trade. The Flyers probably don't have much of a legitimate shot at a Cup, but I'm sure no playoff team would like to draw the Flyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 @brelic Richards and Carter deals were more like one step back for two steps forward. It did set us back at the time. But we doubled our quality up front Carter and Richards have 77 points total this year...Voracek and Simmonds have 88 points .Schenn 34. Couturier 31 Throw in Grossmanns 11. We have nothing to show for Pronger/Eminger/Versteeg picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 @brelic Richards and Carter deals were more like one step back for two steps forward. It did set us back at the time. But we doubled our quality up front Carter and Richards have 77 points total this year...Voracek and Simmonds have 88 points .Schenn 34. Couturier 31 Throw in Grossmanns 11. We have nothing to show for Pronger/Eminger/Versteeg picks. I agree with you. Those trades still set us back 3-4 years (because it's been 3 years now) even if it was one step back for two steps forward. Simmonds and Voracek have emerged as legitimate forces in this league while Richards and Carter are entering the downswing of their careers. Richards' 8 goals in 62 games is a far cry from the 30 and 31 he potted with the Flyers. Carter is doing better, but there's no denying that his best production days are behind him. They'll both turn 30 during next season. That was a great example of Homer selling high on assets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke2Leach Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I agree with you. Those trades still set us back 3-4 years (because it's been 3 years now) even if it was one step back for two steps forward. Simmonds and Voracek have emerged as legitimate forces in this league while Richards and Carter are entering the downswing of their careers. Richards' 8 goals in 62 games is a far cry from the 30 and 31 he potted with the Flyers. Carter is doing better, but there's no denying that his best production days are behind him. They'll both turn 30 during next season.That was a great example of Homer selling high on assets. I had to look up their ages because I simply didn't believe you. I must be old if those guys are turning 30 (and they are). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I agree with you. Those trades still set us back 3-4 years (because it's been 3 years now) even if it was one step back for two steps forward. Simmonds and Voracek have emerged as legitimate forces in this league while Richards and Carter are entering the downswing of their careers. Richards' 8 goals in 62 games is a far cry from the 30 and 31 he potted with the Flyers. Carter is doing better, but there's no denying that his best production days are behind him. They'll both turn 30 during next season.That was a great example of Homer selling high on assets. Crater had 26 in 48 last season and has 21 in 52 this season. That, quite frankly, is right in line with his career production ("projecting" to 44 and 33). He's also off on the wing these days, which doesn't show up his deficiencies as a center as much. Richards is in exactly the role that was predicted for him coming out of Junior - hard-nosed, effective shut down third line center with can make the third line a "2B" line. He's not being forced into a Top Six role in Los Angeles and simply won't produce as much. Still not unhappy with either deal, but they need to start paying dividends on it in the win column in regular season and playoffs. That's not to say they can't but they just haven't yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Crater had 26 in 48 last season and has 21 in 52 this season. That, quite frankly, is right in line with his career production ("projecting" to 44 and 33). He's also off on the wing these days, which doesn't show up his deficiencies as a center as much. Carter probably has one or two high goal scoring seasons left in him. After that, the odds are that his production will trend downwards. Voracek and Simmonds haven't even entered their prime yet and are trending upwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radoran Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Carter probably has one or two high goal scoring seasons left in him. After that, the odds are that his production will trend downwards.Voracek and Simmonds haven't even entered their prime yet and are trending upwards. Your statement was that his "best producing days" were behind him. I disagreed. As, apparently, do you, at least a little I do think he could easily go on a "Gagne" production curve at the end of the contract - although he doesn't have the health issues Gagne experienced. If he puts up 30+ in his next two seasons, half of his major production will have come in Los Angeles. Again - happy with the trade. But what went out doesn't have to be a pile of rancid dingo's kidneys to be happy with the grapes we have in hand Lastly - just for, you know, discussion purposes - if a Magic Wizard told you he could wave a wand, the trade never happened and the Flyers won the Cup with Crater and Richards would you still do the trade to get "better"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Your statement was that his "best producing days" were behind him. I disagreed. As, apparently, do you, at least a little I also said they would be entering the downswing of their career. So, you're right that I do agree with you and more than just a little. I didn't mean to imply that he's all downhill. Only that we're not likely to see 46g-38a-84pts from Carter ever again. That was his peak. So in that sense, his best production days are firmly behind him. He'll probably hover in the 30-40 goal range for the next few years, which makes him a top-level goal scorer the closer he is to 40. But there are 8 more years of Jeff the Golden Gazelle after that for which he most likely will not produce at that level. Lastly - just for, you know, discussion purposes - if a Magic Wizard told you he could wave a wand, the trade never happened and the Flyers won the Cup with Crater and Richards would you still do the trade to get "better"? No, I wouldn't because I didn't understand the trade in the first place. I still think it was not a hockey move, and that's why I don't understand it. I can almost guarantee (as much as that is even possible) that 29 other GMs would not have made those two trades. Sure, now we have 4 young guys from that trade that form the new nucleus, but that's not why it was done. I'd rather ask the Magic Wizard to undo Pronger's injury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakanekimiwa Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Nice info, thanks!The Pronger situation is exaggerated by his career ending injury. You've got to wonder how subsequent events change if that doesn't happen, at least so soon. they also came very close to winning the cup with him. had they done that, we wouldn't give a rat's posterior region that we mortgaged the future. and it very nearly worked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 @Bakanekimiwa I said that when they traded for Pronger....the only way that trade works out is if we win the cup.....we didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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