Braydenn Schenn to 4th line

[King Knut]

I used to totally agree with that, but in a cap based world it makes it harder to ice a complete team if everyone could end up making 2 million more in a year.

But I don't mind that. In fact, I really like performance / incentive based contracts. So, if his cap hit goes up, that means he is meeting those incentives, which is a good thing.

[926]

>>the team would be much better off with Schenn receiving less ice time.<<

 

Caluso - I'm half expecting to see a post this summer "Brayden Schenn to Nashville".... I do think he's progressing, as many have statted w/ youth comparables, but if we are ousted in Rd1 and he's off the score sheet, watch out...

[aziz]

I used to totally agree with that, but in a cap based world it makes it harder to ice a complete team if everyone could end up making 2 million more in a year.

 

did you miss the part where the bonus cushion literally makes it so the bonuses do not ever count against the cap?  every flyer could make all of their bonuses, and the flyers' cap number wouldn't change by a single dollar.  schenn's bonus schedule matters not one tiny little bit.  $870k cap hit.

[King Knut]

I must have since the last I heard teams like the Blackhawks were getting penalized and fined for going over due to bonuses.

Must have changed the rule since then I guess.

[King Knut]

Brayden isn't going anywhere unless one of the top d men in the league is available and Nashville won't be dealing weber for a few years, not til the sting of the owner's out of pocket signing bonus wears off.

He's still extremely young and he's a decent forward. Personally, I don't see why they don't switch him to wing in the off season and get the best of both worlds since Vinny really seems to NEED to play in the middle and honestly, I'm not sure I think Schenn does.

Caluso - I'm half expecting to see a post this summer "Brayden Schenn to Nashville".... I do think he's progressing, as many have statted w/ youth comparables, but if we are ousted in Rd1 and he's off the score sheet, watch out...

[Vanflyer]

I used to totally agree with that, but in a cap based world it makes it harder to ice a complete team if everyone could end up making 2 million more in a year.

 

See Aziz post about the CBA and bonus's. I don't think its for every contract, but I like it for younger players- particularly for high first rounders that have allot of hype / potential when drafted. I am ignorant (and too lazy to go look), but I believe there is a base / fixed entry level contract amount for all players coming into the league. So, to do the performance / incentive based bonus' is a way to reward a 1-5th first round pick v. a 3rd round pick (not to say that the 3rd round pick couldn't be better than the first), but you are playing odds. And there is nothing lost. 

 

I also like it for a player who is in the twilight of his career- say and iginla type. Where you are saying, "we know what you have done in the past, and reward you IF you can hit X totals". 

 

I would say no more than 3 of those types of contracts (if I am looking at Aziz numbers correctly and it a % of your total cap allowance), so even if player(s) hit the bonus level, you are still cap compliant. 

[Vanflyer]

Brayden isn't going anywhere unless one of the top d men in the league is available and Nashville won't be dealing weber for a few years, not til the sting of the owner's out of pocket signing bonus wears off.

He's still extremely young and he's a decent forward. Personally, I don't see why they don't switch him to wing in the off season and get the best of both worlds since Vinny really seems to NEED to play in the middle and honestly, I'm not sure I think Schenn does.

 

 

 

Isn't schenn playing wing now with Raffl at center? I just don't like VLC's defensive play. He is playing better now, but I could use that QoC thing that Brelic or Rad quoted with VLC as well (because he is playing against 4th liners). 

[aziz]

I must have since the last I heard teams like the Blackhawks were getting penalized and fined for going over due to bonuses.

Must have changed the rule since then I guess.

 

the blackhawks got hit one year when both kane and toews were on entry level deals and hit a lot of their bonuses.  the two of them together managed to push over the bonus cushion, and the hawks carried a cap penalty into the next season.  the flyers total bonuses add up to less than $4mil this season, if *everyone* hits *all* of their bonuses.  the bonus cushion is a little over $4mil this season.  no possible way bonuses can have any effect on the flyers' cap situation.

[926]

>>He's still extremely young and he's a decent forward.<<

 

 and re-viewed at 870k, attractive.  Interesting to see which D unit that line draws in the playoffs, I think he's got another gear and needs to add to the matchup headaches with some early series lamplighters.   Why not?

[Vanflyer]

I think he's got another gear and needs to add to the matchup headaches with some early series lamplighters. 

 

I think he does too. I think his biggest thing is his confidence. I really like his gumption and heart. He is not a big guy, but will throw his weight around and drop the mitts if need be. The season is a grind, but any hockey player worth their salt steps it up for the playoffs (except Fleury of course). 

[King Knut]

I'm not saying anything I wasn't always saying. He's a good player.

Maybe Aziz is right and making 3 million is impossible, but it still seems like He won't be making $870 this year and certainly not next year.

And he definitely is at the age where you'd like to start seeing a kid come into his own a bit which was the whole point of this discussion.

Worth a roster spot? He'll yeah. No one ever said not.

Worth a second line center? Sometimes.

I'm rooting for him.

and re-viewed at 870k, attractive. Interesting to see which D unit that line draws in the playoffs, I think he's got another gear and needs to add to the matchup headaches with some early series lamplighters. Why not?

[radoran]

I'm not saying anything I wasn't always saying. He's a good player.

Maybe Aziz is right and making 3 million is impossible, but it still seems like He won't be making $870 this year and certainly not next year.

And he definitely is at the age where you'd like to start seeing a kid come into his own a bit which was the whole point of this discussion.

Worth a roster spot? He'll yeah. No one ever said not.

Worth a second line center? Sometimes.

I'm rooting for him.

 

Making 3 million *is* impossible. He has to be an All Star and among the league leaders in points AND win a major award. That's not happening.

 

This year, he doesn't have to play the 25 minutes in all regular season games to earn a $1.5 million dollar bonus, but to qualify he would have to have an All-Star season, finish among the league's point leaders and win a major award.

 

His cap hit - as @aziz notes - is $870K. He will get his "A" level bonus of $850K but it will not count against the cap because of the "bonus cushion".

 

This way of calculating was implemented in the new CBA of 2013, so anything that happened before that (i.e. Chicago w Kane/Toews) doesn't apply.

[fanaticV3.0]

Making 3 million *is* impossible. He has to be an All Star and among the league leaders in points AND win a major award. That's not happening.

 

 

His cap hit - as @aziz notes - is $870K. He will get his "A" level bonus of $850K but it will not count against the cap because of the "bonus cushion".

 

This way of calculating was implemented in the new CBA of 2013, so anything that happened before that (i.e. Chicago w Kane/Toews) doesn't apply.

 

 

Doesn't Hartnell make more than that and he's never done either of those two things if I remember correctly?

 

Scare yet, lol? I don't think he gets $3 mil, I'm just sayin'.

[radoran]

Doesn't Hartnell make more than that and he's never done either of those two things if I remember correctly?

 

Scare yet, lol? I don't think he gets $3 mil, I'm just sayin'.

 

Scott Hartnell is, in fact, the highest paid forward on the team this season.

 

True story.

 

That $3M number is if Schenn gets all his bonuses and the point is that he can't get "all" his bonuses this season.

[jammer2]

   As a general rule, I'd like to see the Flyers be patient and find out what they really have instead of dealing them off blindly, ie Bob. I won't say never, because I was thrilled to see JVR shipped out of town. There is a world of difference between B.Schenn disappearing and the how JVR fell off the face of the world when he was not interested. Not interested are the key words there. The work ethic *has* to be there, or the kid is a cancer. JVR produced ok this year (hard not on the top line and top pp btw), but wow...when the Leafs needed him most, he was no where to be found. Sure, the rest of the team sucked also, but this kid gets into a funk and he can't pull out of it. Part of that is lack of effort or being to comfortable. I don't see the same thing with Brayden, he *is* interested, he is growing and progressing as a player. That's all I ask.

[Vanflyer]

I don't see the same thing with Brayden, he *is* interested, he is growing and progressing as a player. That's all I ask.

Well stated Jammer. B. Schenn has heart. He has some skills. He is a 22 y/o .5 ppg player over last abbreviated season and this year. He is third on the team in hits. Erratic and inconsistent at times, he still rarely goes more than two games without a point. Is he the second coming of Gretzky, no. However, he is allot better than JVR. I will use Kyle Turris as a good example of patience. Kid was a monster in Junior and some / many of us might have wanted him instead of JVR. But he struggled for a long time in Phoenix and is just now getting his legs underneath him at 24 y/o after 6 years in the league. B. Schenn is in his 3rd season. And for all those guys that squirm about Bobby Ryan, Schenn is producing near the same as him.

(jammer- my rant is not meant towards you, and I fully support the let youth develop program. The irony is that had simmonds turned out just to be a 3rd line grinder, people would be calling heads to roll?).

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vanflyer

[flyercanuck]

Well stated Jammer. B. Schenn has heart. He has some skills. He is a 22 y/o .5 ppg player over last abbreviated season and this year. He is third on the team in hits. Erratic and inconsistent at times, he still rarely goes more than two games without a point. Is he the second coming of Gretzky, no. However, he is allot better than JVR. I will use Kyle Turris as a good example of patience. Kid was a monster in Junior and some / many of us might have wanted him instead of JVR. But he struggled for a long time in Phoenix and is just now getting his legs underneath him at 24 y/o after 6 years in the league. B. Schenn is in his 3rd season. And for all those guys that squirm about Bobby Ryan, Schenn is producing near the same as him. 

 

(jammer- my rant is not meant towards you, and I fully support the let youth develop program. The irony is that is simmonds turned out just to be a grinder, people would be calling heads to roll?). 

 

You and I have talked about how Turris has evolved in the last little while. Considering JVR had about a 40 pound head start on him coming into the NHL, Turris has become every bit as good, if not more consistent. Of course there's no way Philly management would have been this patient with him anyway.

 

 It's funny how many here would love to have Bobby Ryan on the team. Producing at about the same clip as Schenn (now that his stats aren't padded playing with Getzlaf and Perry) Ryan is about 6 times the caphit. The grass is always greener..

[Vanflyer]

You and I have talked about how Turris has evolved in the last little while. Considering JVR had about a 40 pound head start on him coming into the NHL, Turris has become every bit as good, if not more consistent. Of course there's no way Philly management would have been this patient with him anyway.
 
 It's funny how many here would love to have Bobby Ryan on the team. Producing at about the same clip as Schenn (now that his stats aren't padded playing with Getzlaf and Perry) Ryan is about 6 times the caphit. The grass is always greener..

 

No retort. I agree with everything you stated. 

 

(ok almost no retort): there are no guarantees. For me, Kane, Voracek (biased) and Couture are the cream of the top 10 of that draft class. So, that 1, 7, and 9 positional picks.  

[flyercanuck]

@Vanflyer

 

 I think you could include Benn, McDonough, Simmonds, Pacioretty, Subban

[fanaticV3.0]

Scott Hartnell is, in fact, the highest paid forward on the team this season.

 

True story.

 

That $3M number is if Schenn gets all his bonuses and the point is that he can't get "all" his bonuses this season.

 

Well if that isn't a fun fact to start off the weekend, I don't know what is.

[fanaticV3.0]

   As a general rule, I'd like to see the Flyers be patient and find out what they really have instead of dealing them off blindly, ie Bob. I won't say never, because I was thrilled to see JVR shipped out of town. There is a world of difference between B.Schenn disappearing and the how JVR fell off the face of the world when he was not interested. Not interested are the key words there. The work ethic *has* to be there, or the kid is a cancer. JVR produced ok this year (hard not on the top line and top pp btw), but wow...when the Leafs needed him most, he was no where to be found. Sure, the rest of the team sucked also, but this kid gets into a funk and he can't pull out of it. Part of that is lack of effort or being to comfortable. I don't see the same thing with Brayden, he *is* interested, he is growing and progressing as a player. That's all I ask.

 

I completely agree with you about JVR. I wasn't sad to see him go and will not criticize them team for parting ways with him. I won't ever criticizing a team for parting ways with a guy who isn't playing well here. Now the return for that trade is awful, and I will criticize that, but I don't miss JVR. He showed no signs of being the player he is now here an would not have become that here.

 

I wish Schenn was a little more consistent, but I'm in no way disappointed in him to the point I want him gone. None of the young guys are going anywhere if I'm in charge right now.

Edited April 11, 2014 by fanaticV3.0

[flyercanuck]

@fanaticV3.0

 

 Most of the guys I play hockey with are Leaf fans. I was taking some pretty good abuse earlier in the season about how lobsided that trade was. But most of them have come around and are seeing it my way the way JVR (among others) disappeared when it came to crunch time. They're still happy about the trade, just not so happy with JVR.

[OccamsRazor]

But most of them have come around and are seeing it my way the way JVR (among others) disappeared when it came to crunch time

 

Yes he did but i knew it was going to happen cause that is always the problem i always had with him is yes he is skilled but man does he coast and take plays off....and like stated when it gets to crunch time he will turtle like always....i never had a problem trading this guys it's just "who' we traded him for.

 

I like Luke ok just should have gotten more in the trade....would have preferred them to package JVR for a shot at OEL.

 

Edit: Like i said JVR skill was never in question kid can play just his work ethic and commitment to doing it all the time, which i see still haven't changed.....so in October he can be named the best player in all of the NHL and i wouldn't care...but how good will he be playing when April rolls around.

Edited April 12, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[ruxpin]

JVR is a good fit in Toronto. Extremely soft player on possibly the softest team in the league

[flyercanuck]

@ruxpin

 

 He's really taking over where Staypuft left off.