caluso Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 put VLC between Raffl and Simmonds and move Schenn to where he belongs - the 4th line. i am afraid that having Schenn as our second line center is really hurting us. it puts too much pressure on G's line, especially since Couturier is being used as a shutdown defender. to all of the Schenn supporters, the proof is in the pudding: he is 146th overall in scoring, and has been is usually underwhelming self for months. sadly, he has not progressed at all. the team would be much better off with Schenn receiving less ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 @caluso I disagree. Schenn, and not Vinnie, is part of the future of the team. We aren't winning the cup this year. Developing Schenn is way more important than helping some guy (who was bought out by his last team for not earning his keep) be less pouty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I think Berube is thinking along a similar path. Raffle will play 2nd line center tonight between B. Schenn and Simmonds. Vinny will center the fourth line. I think seeing how effective Raffl can be on the second line may help prompt some ideas for future moves made this summer. Trading Schenn may be something worth considerating for a d-man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Raffl will play second line center? Is he even a center? I'm with @caluso I get the argument of giving schenn experience. In fact, I JUST had this discussion with @canoli in another thread where I made that very argument. But after thinking about what canoli said and now caluso's post I have to think it wouldn't harm schenn at THIS point to put the veteran at second line center for the back straight and the playoffs. Schenn has been inconsistent and even non existent for stretches. Allowing the 22 year old to develop has been the counter balance. I support that and still think it's important. But if there's a chance to do something this year (I'm not crazy, I don't mean the Cup. Just a round or two) then call the season to now Schenn's development opportunity and let the adults take it from here. I'm really skeptical about putting Raffl at center when there's 14 other centers (hyoerbole) on the roster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J0e Th0rnton Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Raffl will play second line center? Is he even a center?I'm with @calusoI get the argument of giving schenn experience. In fact, I JUST had this discussion with @canoli in another thread where I made that very argument. But after thinking about what canoli said and now caluso's post I have to think it wouldn't harm schenn at THIS point to put the veteran at second line center for the back straight and the playoffs.Schenn has been inconsistent and even non existent for stretches. Allowing the 22 year old to develop has been the counter balance. I support that and still think it's important. But if there's a chance to do something this year (I'm not crazy, I don't mean the Cup. Just a round or two) then call the season to now Schenn's development opportunity and let the adults take it from here.I'm really skeptical about putting Raffl at center when there's 14 other centers (hyoerbole) on the rosterI have only watched around 6 Flyer games this year, but they were spread out along the season. Things I noticed. B Schenn does not seem to show any improvement or progression. Even in doing the little simple things. I could be wrong given I only watched 6 games, but he seems like meh to me. Guy I noticed positively who I never heard of before. Matt Read. I was watching a game this season and had to ask everyone in chat who he was. The guy has some nice skating and shifty moves. The kind of moves that reminded me of Dan Boyle 3 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hf101 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Raffl will play second line center? Is he even a center? Raffl had been centering the 4th line for most of Feb and March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Raffl had been centering the 4th line for most of Feb and March. Well, now that I've impeached any claim to paying attention...Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caluso Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 @caluso I disagree. Schenn, and not Vinnie, is part of the future of the team. We aren't winning the cup this year. Developing Schenn is way more important than helping some guy (who was bought out by his last team for not earning his keep) be less pouty. i am not sure schenn is part if the future. in fact, i am not sure he will be re-signed. and, if he is re-signed, i am think it will be on a one year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caluso Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Raffl will play second line center? Is he even a center?I'm with @calusoI get the argument of giving schenn experience. In fact, I JUST had this discussion with @canoli in another thread where I made that very argument. But after thinking about what canoli said and now caluso's post I have to think it wouldn't harm schenn at THIS point to put the veteran at second line center for the back straight and the playoffs.Schenn has been inconsistent and even non existent for stretches. Allowing the 22 year old to develop has been the counter balance. I support that and still think it's important. But if there's a chance to do something this year (I'm not crazy, I don't mean the Cup. Just a round or two) then call the season to now Schenn's development opportunity and let the adults take it from here.I'm really skeptical about putting Raffl at center when there's 14 other centers (hyoerbole) on the rosteri agree with you. and besides, demoting him now shouldn't slow his development. heck, what were the past 75 games for? schenn doesn't deserve the free ride he has been given. and, who's to say that if we get in the playoffs, we might not make some noise? in my opinion, our best lineup has schenn on the 4th line, not the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 @caluso I don't get the criticism. The only part I agree with is he disappears for long stretches. I see a 22 year old kid who is approaching 20 goals (got his 19th tonight) and for the past few years he has averaged a point every 2 games. Not overwhelming stats by any means, but he *is* progressing. Not all these kids progress at the same speed, some actually are late bloomers. I believe Braydon falls into that category. Having said all that, next year truly is a put up or shut up year for B.Schenn. I believe he will respond with a 30 goal year, and there will be 5 more 30 goal seasons to follow. You're entitled to your opinion, I just think it's wrong in that particular case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 @jammer2 Just for the record, I'm not really trying to be negative about him. I appreciate he is only 22 and it often comes with the territory, but he IS inconsistent. Not extremely so for 22 but more than you probably want as your second line center going into the playoffs. I like him on faceoffs, but with his game tonight I wonder about him at wing vs. Center. All that said, at this point of the year "learning" and "development" don't hold the same weight for me. VLC might be a better option at second line center at this point in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 VLC might be a better option at second line center at this point in the season. I can get behind that. I believe they would want to lean towards experience for the upcoming playoffs. VLC has been there, done that....knows what it takes to win in the playoffs. VLC does not look interested on most nights, but ya gotta believe that will change for the playoffs....it better, or he will wish he never came here. If Vinny pulls a big fat dud in the playoffs, he will be rode out of town....someway, somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanflyer Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 i am not sure schenn is part if the future. in fact, i am not sure he will be re-signed. Schenn is a RFA. He will be re-signed or traded. Truthfully, I dont think you give up on a 22 y/o 20g-20a kid. Frankly, we had that with JVR and look how he took off. Schenn has way more heart than JVR did. As for the move VLC to 2nd line, not until he learns to play 200 feet. He is abysmal defensively, and this did not just come to birth under the Flyers, he was bad in Tampa too, but had linemates that covered for him. Keep him right were he is. He can play again the other teams 4th line and take advantage of that match-up and not be a liability to defense, while still getting PP time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammer2 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 @Vanflyer A valid point, opposing coaches would have a field day with a VLC lead second line....there would be an almost automatic mismatch before we even took the ice. Not a great way to enter the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxpin Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Fair point @Vanflyer The 4th line vs. 4th line match-up IS intriguing. Plus, Schenn acquitted himself well at wing lay night (I know, Buffalo) so try it that way for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brelic Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I liked the new 2nd line last night with Simmonds/Raffl/Schenn. And we're paying $4.5M for a 4th line center. Craziness, I tell ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Anyone notice who the first star was last night? Brayden Schenn has 20 g 21 a JVR at 22 - 11 g 13 a Voracek at 22 - 18g 31 a Matt Read at 22 15 g 25 a IN COLLEGE Wayne Simmonds at 22 14 g 16 a VLC went from 20g 17 a at 21 to 33g and 45 a at 22 Giroux went from 16g 31 a at 21 to 25g 51 a at 22. Mike Richards at 22 10 g 22 a I can't believe people STILL need to be reminded about patience when it comes to kids in hockey. They don't all take the same trajectory when it comes to their development. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 @caluso I disagree. Schenn, and not Vinnie, is part of the future of the team. We aren't winning the cup this year. Developing Schenn is way more important than helping some guy (who was bought out by his last team for not earning his keep) be less pouty. He's never once complained about playing out of position or being put on the 4th line. He's been nothing but professional here, even when he's struggled. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canoli Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 This is "the best player not in the NHL" 3rd season and his good nights vs his invisible nights are still running about 60/40. His games are easy to divide: "he worked hard" and "didn't work hard enough." When he works hard he hits, he takes hits to make the pass, he drives the net with and without the puck, he backchecks and forces TOs...etc. Seeing Raffl in Schenn's spot last night ...maybe I'm not the only one who wants more out of Schenn these days. I hope the Flyers keep him. I also hope he gets a little kick in the ass once in awhile. He seems to need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I have only watched around 6 Flyer games this year, but they were spread out along the season. Things I noticed. B Schenn does not seem to show any improvement or progression. Even in doing the little simple things. I could be wrong given I only watched 6 games, but he seems like meh to me. Guy I noticed positively who I never heard of before. Matt Read. I was watching a game this season and had to ask everyone in chat who he was. The guy has some nice skating and shifty moves. The kind of moves that reminded me of Dan Boyle 3 years ago. He has a career high in goals, assists, and points this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 He's never once complained about playing out of position or being put on the 4th line. He's been nothing but professional here, even when he's struggled. If you call a guy with his God-given talent who's been invisible half the season while being paid over $9 million nothing but professional, ok. I personally don't think he earned his way to the 4th line by giving his all. IN VLCs defence, he shouldn't even be on a team with too many centers to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 @jammer2Just for the record, I'm not really trying to be negative about him. I appreciate he is only 22 and it often comes with the territory, but he IS inconsistent. Not extremely so for 22 but more than you probably want as your second line center going into the playoffs.I like him on faceoffs, but with his game tonight I wonder about him at wing vs. Center.All that said, at this point of the year "learning" and "development" don't hold the same weight for me. VLC might be a better option at second line center at this point in the season. He (Schenn) doesn't play like a center imo. He reminds me of a center about as much as Jeff Carter did. Ok, maybe not quite that much, but I see nothing in his game that warrants him having to play that position over other guys who are clearly better at the more well-rounded/responsible position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) If you call a guy with his God-given talent who's been invisible half the season while being paid over $9 million nothing but professional, ok. I personally don't think he earned his way to the 4th line by giving his all. IN VLCs defence, he shouldn't even be on a team with too many centers to begin with. I didn't say he has played well all year, I said he's handled playing out of position and being demoted (the latter of which he deserved) like an adult, which is more than I can say about you. You cry about him every day that you post on this site. There isn't a day that goes by that you make a comment about him. He's played poorly sure - no sane person would deny that - but any attempt to paint him as pouty is nothing more than your bias. You cannot rationally discuss him (or many older players for that matter). You don't treat players the same. You see an old guy struggling and you want him on the 4th line. But a kid with some issues? No, don't dare treat him the same. It could ruin the future of this team! Never mind the fact that they're getting ready for the playoffs, VLC is noticeably better at center than wing, and Schenn isn't half bad on the wing, we could ruin the 2025 team by moving Schenn to another position or line for a tenth of the season (because we all know the line changes don't last any longer than that anyway). Edited April 7, 2014 by fanaticV3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyercanuck Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 like an adult, which is more than I can say about you.. Ooooookay. I'll let you get back to your name calling and comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanaticV3.0 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 . Ooooookay. I'll let you get back to your name calling and comics. I didn't call you any names. Learn to read. Comics might actually help with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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