Game 2 - Flyers did what they had to do

[TedZep]

Which, really, were the second and third worst calls I've ever seen. After the timonen / giroux one.

 

I've heard of Orange colored glasses and Blue colored glasses, but you are the only person I know with zebra colored glasses.

 

What was your opinion on Simmonds getting called for "holding" when he merely tapped McDonagh in the shoulder in passing, and McDonagh slashed him?  You have to come up with a whole nother way of saying "ticky-tacky."  I just watched it again, in slo-mo and backwards.  No hold, definite slash.

 

Zucarello skates directly at MacDonald at the corner of the net, and then spins wildly to the ice upon contact.  There is a reason the ref called Zucarello first, and added MacDonald after the fact.  Zuc flailing his arm like he was getting tossed by a mechanical bull gives it away.

 

Seconds later, Timmonen's stick is slashed by St. Louis, that filthy rat, is checked by Richards, but initiates no contact either with glove nor stick to get the penalty.  The refs saw nothing, and yet made a call anyway. And yet there was McDonagh, flailing away like a hippy on acid at a Grateful Dead concert.  In slo-mo it looks extra hilarious and extra obvious that the Rangers deserved a THIRD embellisment penalty.

 

Dorsett hit Giroux well after the whistle, and that could have been called on it's own, just to keep tempers in line.  Simmonds taps him on the hip, and a split second later Dorsett throws himself into the boards.  It looks bad from behind, so I understand why you are confused, but from the side, the ref's angle, it's pretty obvious.  Simmonds knows what happened, and more importantly, to his shame, Dorsett knows.

[aziz]

@TedZep

 

dude, whatever.  in both cases, the ranger got for real run over.  i think the calls on the flyers in both situations were questionable (its the playoffs, let those go), but the rangers falling on their asses were definitely made to fall on their asses.  

 

edit:  to sate your curiosity:  simmonds on mcdonagh was ticky tacky, as was coburn on zucarello.  and i'm pretty sure timonen was taking a nap when he was called for giroux's hold.

Edited April 21, 2014 by aziz

[caluso]

Which, really, were the second and third worst calls I've ever seen. After the timonen / giroux one.

Flyers played a great third period. I was very impressed with their defensive effort and cohesion; everybody backchecked / busted their butts to get back.

 

Additionally, they counter-attacked very well, even though they squandered numerous chances to take a two goal lead in the third.

 

I loved seeing VLC center the second line again. I also loved  seeing Raffl paired with Read and Couturier in the third - great defensive combo.

 

As for which goalie starts game 3, I think it has to be Emery. Emery stole today's game, looking poised and confident doing so. I was really impressed with how square he was to the shooter. While I agree with those who say Mason is the better goalie, the question in my mind is this: who is the better goalie right now? And, I think that's Emery.

 

One last thing: we still have a lot of difficulty getting out of our own zone. That has to change if we are going to win the series.

Edited April 21, 2014 by caluso

[Vanflyer]

Now let's hope we see a different, more energized team at the WFC!

GO FLYERS!

 

I didn't get to see the third either. I agree with everything you said. I think the ice was tilted in NY favor for significant stretches of the first and second. Also, the penalty parade has to stop. Luckilly the embellishment antics that NYR were displaying, caught up to them. 

 

I was a bit annoyed that the Flyers did not come out hitting like they did in the first period of the first game. They can not run and gun with NYR. 

 

A big issue for me is faceoffs. Couturier, Schenn and VLC all have to get much better The three of the combined are in the mid 30% and you are not going to win hockey games losing puck possession 65% of the time. I am hoping that line matchups on home ice can help this a bit. 

 

Re Giroux, I am starting to wonder if he is not hurt. He played some lack luster games down the stretch as well.

 

Got to get the shots against significantly down. The NYR are averaging 35 shots a game. That does not include the 22 blocked shots that the flyers are making a game. You are not going to win many hockey games allowing that many against / attempts- I dont care who your goalie is. 

Edited April 21, 2014 by Vanflyer

[flyercanuck]

Mason is your goalie of NOW.  This discussion is so ####ing insane it's giving me  a headache.  Emery was good. He was doing exactly what he's supposed to as a ####ing BACKUP.  And he gets the hell out when the starter returns.  It really is that simple.

 

.917 SV% vs. .903

.250 GAA vs.  .296

60 starts vs. 21 starts.

 

Why is ANYONE even discussing this?  It's ####ing insane.  If Mason isn't 100% it changes the equation a bit, but a 100% Mason has better lateral movement, better puck control, better everything.  Oh my god.  And someone ACTUALLY typed "if some thinks Mason should start they should have their head examined."

 

I've entered bizarro world where grass is up and the sky is down and pink.  It's not about hate or Mason love or any of that nonsense.  Insert any other names into the exact situation and the math is the same.  I like Emery.  Way back when we were first signing him (the first time around) I was a little concerned about his head but never his ability.  He's proven here and in Chicago that he can be a good team guy.  I don't have any reason to hate the guy.

 

And then there IS your goalie of the future thing.  You don't play a guy 60 games and have him be the clear number one; have him signed to a three year deal, and #### him off when he gets injured for a couple games and put him on the bench in favor of a guy with clearly worse numbers, who is NOT signed, and wasn't good enough to start more than 25% of your games.  Sorry, it bears repeating:  THE COUNTER ARGUMENT IS TOO ####ING INSANE FOR WORDS.

 

Again, if Mason is NOT 100% it changes the equation.  One thing Emery has shown, at least so far, is that he is capable of holding the fort.  So no need to rush Mason back too soon (at this point).  But if 100%, this really shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

The grass is not up...this is Philly...the grass is always greener....

[flyercanuck]

I feel that G is working hard too...his game seemed a lot more physical today than game one, and while he's not finding "his" space he is hitting and taking the game to Mcdougnah ...it has been an interesting game within the game twixt those two. I think with last change we'll see A more effective 28. He's got to start winning some draws too...

 

^^^ This.

 

Giroux didn't score. He didn't get a shot. But he played with passion. And without stupid penalties. If they're going to focus on #28 then the Flyers need to find a way for others to score. Yesterday they did that.

[TedZep]

in both cases, the ranger got for real run over

 

They were called for embellishment, which is exactly what they did. You said earlier they we were bad calls.  They were not.  The missed McDonagh waiving his hands in the air, otherwise there should have been three.  The announcers had a long discussion players doing that to attempt to draw penalties - it's disrespectful to the fans, themselves and the game of Hockey.

[aziz]

@TedZep

 

ok

 

[Adamflyers]

Both sides of the Mason-emery argument have their merits, but for me, if Mason is 100% healthy, you go with him.  I think he gives you a better chance to win the game, which makes the choice easy for me.  Emery may be consdiered the hot hand at the moment, but he has a total of 1 win in 2 games.  It's not like we have ridden him all the way through to the next round.  I have trouble looking at him as the hot hand given the small sample size.  The Rangers exploited his weakness of poor lateral movement in both games.  While there is no guarentee that Mason makes any of those saves, I think he stands a better chance to get a glove on it than Emery does.  None of this is blaming Emery for the game one loss and it is certainly not a knock on the guy, but he is the back up goalie for a reason.  Mason brings more to the table when it comes to overall quickness and talent.  Ray did his job by helping them to take 1 out of 2 games in MSG, and that is nothing to sneeze at, considering how difficult it has been for the Flyers to win there in recent years.  Would Mason have won both games at MSG...probably not, but you have to look at who gives you a better chance to win the games going forward and I think Mason wins that, if he is 100% healthy.

 

Whoever Chief decides to go with, there is one thing we can all agree on....F the Rangers and LETS GO FLYERS!!!!!!!!!!

[mojo1917]

there is one thing we can all agree on....F the Rangers and LETS GO FLYERS!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ah yes !

[Bakanekimiwa]

I see this as at least a rational argument, but I really think it's overstated.  Enough that it wouldn't even enter the discussion for me.  Primarily because, for me, if Mason is 100% there isn't even a discussion.

 

The game they are playing is trying to shoot the puck in the net.  The shooters have  had two games to know what kind of game the goalie is playing, individual tendencies, and shooting holes.  Changing this up makes this aspect a complete wash.  The Rangers were clearly trying to exploit Emery's slower lateral movement and succeeded, particularly on the MSL goal.  The problem is that in real time, this isn't always an easy thing to accomplish.  But in the end, the "knowing the game, individual tendencies" thing works both ways and is, therefore, a wash so it's back to the fact this is not a debate between two goalies who were used somewhat evenly and had somewhat similar numbers, etc.  It's between a clear starter that has missed a handful of games for embellishment and a guy who has been a clear backup (and for a reason).    It's Wayne Stephenson vs. Bernie Parent for me (Emery is not Stephenson and Mason is certainly not Parent, so I'm just talking defined roles--before someone retorts with some sort of other comparison).

 

If Mason is not 100%, no reason to rush him based on what we've seen.  But at 100% I don't see a merited argument.  I do see it as a right and a WTF??

 

this is classic fan forum fodder(FFF tm) ... there's no conversation in Berube's head... it's Mason when he's healthy. All this talk about knowing the tendencies of the shooters is a bunch of hullabaloo(tryin to keep it pc here). Mason is the better goalie. 

 

If you don't think the Rangers would love to have another crack at Emery goin post to post, you're not paying attention. 

[Bakanekimiwa]

They were called for embellishment, which is exactly what they did. You said earlier they we were bad calls.  They were not.  The missed McDonagh waiving his hands in the air, otherwise there should have been three.  The announcers had a long discussion players doing that to attempt to draw penalties - it's disrespectful to the fans, themselves and the game of Hockey.

 

Speaking of which. I don't see a lot of talk here about McDonagh. Clearly, the Flyers(primarily G) are really annoyed with his embellishments. As I am as well. He's giving Cindy a run for his money on trying to let the fan in 703 know he's been slashed. He's been a disgrace, IMO. Becoming a great D man, but also becoming a Diva. 

[aziz]

All this talk about knowing the tendencies of the shooters is a bunch of hullabaloo(tryin to keep it pc here).

 

true if you are playing NHL 2014.  humans, though, work differently.

[Bakanekimiwa]

true if you are playing NHL 2014.  humans, though, work differently.

 

Yeah.. I wouldn't know, I don't play it. But, thankfully Berube will use logic and reason, other than... gee, Emery has played these guys recently. I think Berube will just take a look at how Emery's lateral movement is easily exploited and Mason gives us a stronger option in net... you know... because of his numbers and stuff. 

[aziz]

@Bakanekimiwa

 

could be.  or, he could look at how it looks like emery went to school over 4 periods, and suddenly was shutting down the cross ice onetimer because he has come to recognize when they are setting that up.  after period one yesterday, the rags didn't have an inch to look at when switching ice like that.  they still tried several times, but saw a flyers crest staring at them each time.

 

playing against a group of guys is the best scouting report possible.  if you don't think that has any impact....  and stuff.

[Bakanekimiwa]

@Bakanekimiwa

 

could be.  or, he could look at how it looks like emery went to school over 4 periods, and suddenly was shutting down the cross ice onetimer because he has come to recognize when they are setting that up.  after period one yesterday, the rags didn't have an inch to look at when switching ice like that.  they still tried several times, but saw a flyers crest staring at them each time.

 

playing against a group of guys is the best scouting report possible.  if you don't think that has any impact....  and stuff.

 

Emery was still slow on the cross ice, they didn't execute it fast enough because our D adjusted the coverage.... and stuff. Mason will be in net... because, well... we all like stats around here, until we don't, and Mason has the bestest stats ... and stuff. 

[aziz]

Emery was still slow on the cross ice, they didn't execute it fast enough because our D adjusted the coverage

 

can't really get a one timer off faster or slower.  'cause, you know: "one timer".  and stuff.

[canoli]

damn why is it so hard for some Flyers' fans to give the guy some credit? He adjusted and started anticipating the play. The skaters helped by taking away that seam but when it got through - as it did a number of times - Emery was there and made the save. And if Mason had been in there he would've done the same thing.

 

Mason is faster, handles the puck better - I haven't heard anyone try to say different. But Emery won that game because he made the right adjustment and took away a big part of the Rags' game plan. He'll have to do it all over again tomorrow.

[xganarchy]

I don't think it's as easy as saying "Mason is the better goalie, play him" when he's healthy. If Emery was playing outstanding hockey, and stole both games with shut outs, you guys wouldn't want to ride that momentum? And what if Mason is still feeling the effects from what we have to presume was a concussion? The only argument for me would be, has Emery played well enough to warrant being called the "hot hand" right now? I'm not too sure...

[Bakanekimiwa]

I don't think it's as easy as saying "Mason is the better goalie, play him" when he's healthy. If Emery was playing outstanding hockey, and stole both games with shut outs, you guys wouldn't want to ride that momentum? And what if Mason is still feeling the effects from what we have to presume was a concussion? The only argument for me would be, has Emery played well enough to warrant being called the "hot hand" right now? I'm not too sure...

 

That's kinda my whole point. Mason is THE better goalie. I think he proved that over the course of the season, hands down. However, Emery has played well enough to win both games. Last game, he played very well. So, that's great... everything is going according to plan. That's why he was brought in... for this very situation, to backup Mason. 

 

If Mason isn't 100%, then I think we can feel comfortable to let Emery play again without much worry. But, again... Mason is the starter if he's 100%. 

[doom88]

Yeah.. I wouldn't know, I don't play it. But, thankfully Berube will use logic and reason, other than... gee, Emery has played these guys recently. I think Berube will just take a look at how Emery's lateral movement is easily exploited and Mason gives us a stronger option in net... you know... because of his numbers and stuff.

Iirc, @aziz has first hand experience there. He's a goalie.

Also, let's not pretend Mason wasn't shaky just before his injury, or impervious to shots directly at him. Emery was vulnerable to those cross ice chances a little more than all goalies, but he is getting all the square ones.

I like Mason, a lot, but let's not make him out to be Hasek just because he isn't Bryzgalov, Leighton, Biron, the bad Boucher, Esche, Burke, Niittymaki against anyone other than Atlanta, Cechmanek pre-meltdown, Little, etc.

[aziz]

Iirc, @aziz has first hand experience there. He's a goalie

That only means but so much; playing college or beer league doesn't put me in a place to understand the preparation an NHL goalie has. But. If I see the same team a couple games in a row, I start to get a handle on the personalities I'm facing. That guy likes to pull up short at the face off dots and take a snap shot, that guy likes to drop a shoulder and cut in hard to the net, that center likes to put face offs on net, that dman shoots low every time he can walk in to the top of the circle. You start to get in their head. Not in a screw with them kind of way, but in a I know what they are thinking, what they are looking for kind of way.

Mason is the way better goalie, and no question should start round two (if there is a round two), but the time emery has logged against this Rangers squad makes it a tough call for round one. To me.

[Bakanekimiwa]

Iirc, @aziz has first hand experience there. He's a goalie.

Also, let's not pretend Mason wasn't shaky just before his injury, or impervious to shots directly at him. Emery was vulnerable to those cross ice chances a little more than all goalies, but he is getting all the square ones.

I like Mason, a lot, but let's not make him out to be Hasek just because he isn't Bryzgalov, Leighton, Biron, the bad Boucher, Esche, Burke, Niittymaki against anyone other than Atlanta, Cechmanek pre-meltdown, Little, etc.

 

uh.. I've played some goalie too. I still don't think that makes either one of us qualified to be an authority on the topic here on a fan forum. Not that you're saying that... Just as I'm not claiming Mason is the next coming of Hasek either. In fact, this topic has sort of gotten out of hand as far as over-analysis. 

 

It's pretty simple.... Mason has been our #1 all year. He's played better than Emery all year. His numbers bare that out. I dunno why we're even having this discussion, other than it's a non-game day. 

 

I'll just leave this little quote here from Emery himself..."We talked about it," Emery said. "I'm always mindful of how the other team plays. That's not to say that if the guy has the puck normally I'm focused on that guy and you want to be aware of what else is around kind of secondary. I still kind of approach things the same way."

 

So there you have it... Emery is NOT focused on each individual player. So that would seem to indicate that it's overstated to suggest he has a read on players now that he's played them 2 games in a row. 

 

And... from Berube... speaking to the point that it(the cross-ice passing) was a team adjustment... NOT a goalie adjustment. 

 

Coach Craig Berube said Sunday his team did a better job taking away the cross-ice passes in the final two periods.

"On the first two goals they made the seam passes, we were outnumbered," he said. "They're a good attack team. Their defense is very active up in the rush and it opens things up, gets you spread out. Our guys did a better job with sticks and time and space. We didn't back in so much, I thought our gaps were better. That's real important against this team, having good gaps and not giving them a whole lot of time with the puck."

[aziz]

Well, I mean, players and coaches always tell the straight truth in post game interviews. So, you got me there.

Come on, man. Your *saw* four or five cross ice one timers in those last two periods. Berube says they turned off that spigot, but things obviously still dripped through. The difference was emery ahead of the play and ready to shut them down. And go ahead and tell me that seeing a particular guy doing the same short list of things for 120 minutes wouldn't clue you into what he might do over the next 60. It's silly to pretend these things don't exist.

[canoli]

oh lord. really? pulling quotes...as if they have anything to do with anything? Nobody said it was "all Emery." But anyway, what, you think Berube's words mean that Emery *didn't* make an adjustment?

 

Also, let's not pretend Mason wasn't shaky just before his injury, or impervious to shots directly at him.

 

and then there's ^This^

 

I been saying all along these guys give up the same type of bad goals and they rarely have to do with speed, almost always about focus and preparation, the lack of it that is.