Vinnys Agents looking for trade partner

[murraycraven]

the hockey writers have a trade speculation when we send VLC to the habs for wait for it DANNY B  :blink:

 

Seriously Jim?!?

[pilldoc]

LOL!!!

 

Bring some halibut too...

 

and make sure you stop off at Applebee's!  LOL

[OccamsRazor]

the hockey writers have a trade speculation when we send VLC to the habs for wait for it DANNY B  :blink:

I'd do that as a last option it would save a little over half a million this upcoming year and Danny is only signed for this upcoming season and that would get Vinny off the books the following 3years. However it would rid them of the log jam at center. I'd prefer other options. But last resort...I'd do it.

[pilldoc]

Seriously Jim?!?

 

i echo that.... seriously ????? :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

[brelic]

I'd do that as a last option it would save a little over half a million this upcoming year and Danny is only signed for this upcoming season and that would get Vinny off the books the following 3years. However it would rid them of the log jam at center. I'd prefer other options. But last resort...I'd do it.

 

Meh. It's not ideal, but I'd do it too as a last resort. 

[OccamsRazor]

Meh. It's not ideal, but I'd do it too as a last resort. 

 

 

Yes it's not and really no way do i think this would happen so it easy to comment on i think Vinny has some trade value after his bonus is paid.

 

Vinny will only be owed $14.5 million over four seasons, or $3.625m in salary per season. That is a pretty good deal for a center who can play 2nd or 3rd line center and even net 20 goals last year after missing some games with back issues regardless of his age.

[OccamsRazor]

Meh. It's not ideal, but I'd do it too as a last resort. 

 

 

Patrick Berglund, St. Louis Blues ink 3-year extension, the contact is for $11.1 million, or an annual cap hit of $3.7 million. In 16 minutes of ice time he only scored 14 goals for 32 points.

 

Vinny's caphit will only be 3.6 mill and he score 20 goals while being yo-yo'd all over in only 15 ATOI time.

Edited June 26, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[King Knut]

I am convinced these deals are so bad because Homer ruined any semblance of good faith he had with players and agents over the years.

Agents remember that crap. You want me to play in Philly? You got it... It'll cost you an absurd amount more than another competitive teAm and I want bonuses.

I'm convinced this is why Lukko left and I'm convinced this is why Homer isn't the GM anymore. Now he gets to be involved by agents and players know he's not the one signing the deals or screwing them over.

*sigh*

Man, that's some bad negotiating on the part of the Flyers.

Back to our discussion of yesterday, those are exactly the absurd kinds of concessions you make (bonus equal to half his salary, NMCs, length) when you're dealing from a position of weakness.

And the worst part is - we had absolutely no need for him.

I'm really really encouraged that Hextall has the cojones to undo the crap that Homer did.

Edited June 26, 2014 by King Knut

[aziz]

I am convinced these deals are so bad because Homer ruined any semblance of good faith he had with players and agents over the years.

Agents remember that crap. You want me to play in Philly? You got it... It'll cost you an absurd amount more than another competitive teAm and I want bonuses.

I'm convinced this is why Lukko left and I'm convinced this is why Homer isn't the GM anymore. Now he gets to be involved by agents and players know he's not the one signing the deals or screwing them over.

Who did hologram screw over? I mean, Nashville, but you said agents remember that crap. What crap? Carle?

[King Knut]

He's made a point of trading players who were expecting to be in Philly for a while.

He's been accused of making such promises and the following them up with trading the guy he just promised he wasn't going to trade.

I feel like from an agent's point of view that makes him difficult to trust.

Who did hologram screw over? I mean, Nashville, but you said agents remember that crap. What crap? Carle?

[Irishjim]

Patrick Berglund, St. Louis Blues ink 3-year extension, the contact is for $11.1 million, or an annual cap hit of $3.7 million. In 16 minutes of ice time he only scored 14 goals for 32 points.

 

Vinny's caphit will only be 3.6 mill and he score 20 goals while being yo-yo'd all over in only 15 ATOI time.

vinnys cap hit is 4.5 not 3.7..he could have been paid the whole deal in year 1 but its spreadout over the length of the contract... scroll towards the bottom  http://capgeek.com/player/884

[Mad Dog]

How does that really work? I mean I get that both want a divorce, but shouldnt it be Hextall the one that is dialing the phone and searching for sutors? 

 

That's what I think *should* be happening, yes.  Hexy should be an initiator in all this, since he is the one who is trying to unlod an x player.  But since this is a small world, and all the GMs probably know what's happening in each team (or at least have some rough idea) and know each other, it's probably not unfathomable to think that some other GM actually called Hexy and said something along the lines of, "Hey, Hexy, I know you are trying to solve a problem.  I can help you.  Let's talk..."

 

And again, knowing that *all* the Flyers are trying to accomplish is basically: 1) push Lecavalier off the door and 2) free up the roster spot, asking nothing in return, this really shouldn't be such a daunting task.  I believe there are still some NHL teams where VLC can play a certain role and help.  Nashville is one team I can think of.  Probably Atlanta is the other... my point is it's not unresolvable.  Difficult - yes (mainly because of the contract of course, not so much because of VLC), but not impossible.

[Mad Dog]

That's what I think *should* be happening, yes.  Hexy should be an initiator in all this, since he is the one who is trying to unlod an x player.  But since this is a small world, and all the GMs probably know what's happening in each team (or at least have some rough idea) and know each other, it's probably not unfathomable to think that some other GM actually called Hexy and said something along the lines of, "Hey, Hexy, I know you are trying to solve a problem.  I can help you.  Let's talk..."

 

And again, knowing that *all* the Flyers are trying to accomplish is basically: 1) push Lecavalier out the door and 2) free up the roster spot, asking nothing in return, this really shouldn't be such a daunting task.  I believe there are still some NHL teams where VLC can play a certain role and help.  Nashville is one team I can think of.  Probably Atlanta is the other... my point is it's not unresolvable.  Difficult - yes (mainly because of the contract of course, not so much because of VLC), but not impossible.

[aziz]

He's made a point of trading players who were expecting to be in Philly for a while.

He's been accused of making such promises and the following them up with trading the guy he just promised he wasn't going to trade.

I feel like from an agent's point of view that makes him difficult to trust.

I guess. Those agents for paid, and paid well. I don't know how "don't sign with the Flyers" they really are.

My take is that holmgren never liked waiting games or bidding wars or being in the mix. He saw a player he wanted, and did what he needed to do to win that player outright. Which meant offering enough for the player and the agent to not bother going back to other parties. Not the wisest way of dealing, but there it is. He wasn't forced to offer big because his reputation required it. He offered big to ensure he got what he was looking for. As misguided as that was at times.

I think players and agents around the league at the Flyers as having deep pockets, and have little compunction with leveraging that. If your client is an FA, then definitely talk to the Flyers, because if they're interested, they traditionally will come out of the gate with an offer no one else can or will match.

Not the most forward thinking approach, but effective in the short term.

As for the players who picked up huge contacts and then were unexpectedly dealt... They got more money than anyone else would have given them, and continue to get that wherever they end up. It isn't cool that they were surprised by being sent elsewhere, but that's pro sports, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. None of the players so handled by the Flyers have cause for bitterness. Richards and Carter won two cups, brizgalov earned a normal paycheck on top of his buyout, jvr had a career season following his trade. Briere's and Hartnell maybe have a minor beef, but their salary to production ratio had a huge hand in what happened, and they have to see themselves as part of the outcome.

tl:dr - if anything, holmgren established a reputation for being willing to pay beyond top dollar for players he wanted, and why would a player or agent be unwilling to leverage that?

[Vanflyer]

Nashville is one team I can think of. 

 

Nashville is actually where I think he would fit best. They are starving for any offense and in Lavy's run an gun and Riene in net the blue line pretty solid, VLC does not need to worry about defense (per usual). 

[AJgoal]

Patrick Berglund, St. Louis Blues ink 3-year extension, the contact is for $11.1 million, or an annual cap hit of $3.7 million. In 16 minutes of ice time he only scored 14 goals for 32 points.

 

Vinny's caphit will only be 3.6 mill and he score 20 goals while being yo-yo'd all over in only 15 ATOI time.

 

Vinny's cap hit will never not be a total of 4.5 million.

 

And it's not all that uncommon for an agent to talk to other teams about trading for his guy. Happens all the time in other sports, particularly the NFL, I'm sure it happens in the NHL as well.

[Vanflyer]

And it's not all that uncommon for an agent to talk to other teams about trading for his guy.

 

But how does that really work- I mean in VLC case, ok because the flyers don't want anything back. What I mean is how can an agent solicit a trade when he has zero skin in the game other than his player. In vinny's case, I can see hextall saying, ok- see what you can do and I'll keep trying on my end. But that is the exception. 

 

For any other player, wouldnt there have to be a Flyer / NHL team rep involved even in a preliminary "fishing" dialogue? 

[jammer2]

  Vinny = lazy. Good riddance, didn't want him in the first place.

[OccamsRazor]

vinnys cap hit is 4.5 not 3.7..he could have been paid the whole deal in year 1 but its spreadout over the length of the contract... scroll towards the bottom  http://capgeek.com/player/884

 

 

ok maybe i looked at that wrong.

Edited June 27, 2014 by OccamsRazor

[doom88]

No that 3.65 after his roster bonus is paid on July 1st.

Cap hit is the average annual value. Not salary plus bonus.

[aziz]

In vinny's case, I can see hextall saying, ok- see what you can do and I'll keep trying on my end. But that is the exception. 

 

the agent would need the explicit permission of the GM to discuss anything of the sort with another GM.  and i agree, that is only given in the very odd circumstance.

[brelic]

But how does that really work- I mean in VLC case, ok because the flyers don't want anything back. What I mean is how can an agent solicit a trade when he has zero skin in the game other than his player. In vinny's case, I can see hextall saying, ok- see what you can do and I'll keep trying on my end. But that is the exception. 

 

For any other player, wouldnt there have to be a Flyer / NHL team rep involved even in a preliminary "fishing" dialogue? 

 

 

I think it's the other way around - the agent is doing it for the benefit of his client. VLC has a full NMC and doesn't have to go anywhere. By going out and talking to teams that are interested, they can try to sell their team, city, and vision to VLC's agent, a little bit like Kekalainen did to Hartnell. 

[Vanflyer]

I think it's the other way around - the agent is doing it for the benefit of his client. VLC has a full NMC and doesn't have to go anywhere. By going out and talking to teams that are interested, they can try to sell their team, city, and vision to VLC's agent, a little bit like Kekalainen did to Hartnell. 

 

I sort of get that. So what you are saying is the agent makes calls to GM and says "Are you interested in Vinny?? Ok, what can you tell me about your team that I can tell Vinny that will convince him its a good fit for him?"

 

Is that what you are saying?? 

 

If so, I think again this is the exception because the Flyers are merely (I assume) trying to jettison Vinny. In any other trade where assets are coming back, it should be the team initiating those conversations and then approaching the player and saying here is a list of suitable sutors (ie the assets in return are digestable). 

 

I can't really see an agent just going out and contacting teams gms otherwise. It would make no sense to me- just starting with confidentiality. 

[doom88]

I sort of get that. So what you are saying is the agent makes calls to GM and says "Are you interested in Vinny?? Ok, what can you tell me about your team that I can tell Vinny that will convince him its a good fit for him?"

Is that what you are saying??

If so, I think again this is the exception because the Flyers are merely (I assume) trying to jettison Vinny. In any other trade where assets are coming back, it should be the team initiating those conversations and then approaching the player and saying here is a list of suitable sutors (ie the assets in return are digestable).

I can't really see an agent just going out and contacting teams gms otherwise. It would make no sense to me- just starting with confidentiality.

Agents work for players. If a player wants out, it's the agents job to figure out how. Sometimes, GMs will grant agents permission to seek out a trade. Nothing strange here, and quite frankly, good for Hexy. He'd better be focusing on the draft right now, and VLC can wait a few days.

[brelic]

Is that what you are saying?? 
 
If so, I think again this is the exception because the Flyers are merely (I assume) trying to jettison Vinny. In any other trade where assets are coming back, it should be the team initiating those conversations and then approaching the player and saying here is a list of suitable sutors (ie the assets in return are digestable). 

 

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And you're right - it would be the exception. The reason the agent goes along is that all parties (VLC, agent, GM) seem to be in agreement that there's no room for him on the Flyers. He can stay, sure, but what Hexy is telling him is that he might not like his role. Healthy scratch, wing, 4th line. So it's in everyone's best interests to work on getting moved somewhere he's needed.